david in sweden

I think you'll find that game was October 16 .......1976 ! It was TP 's last game at The Dell. He officially "retired" after that game, but had to come back some weeks later and eventually played more games that season including the return fixture at Edgar Street. Hereford won 2-0 . Saints won 1-0 goal by Nick Holmes ( one of the very few So'ton born players to captain a Saints side, and nowadays managing Salisbury.)

Terry had been a one-club man till Lawrie McMenemy released him (aged 35) and still he carried on playing (for Hereford) - and got them promoted, too. This was an era before pop star hero worship, and England manager Alf Ramsey was very much against individual praise, but TP was a star player. He was in some way, a " type" of Beckham, for his runs and corner kicks. Terry played all his 19 England internationals whilst Saints were still in Div.1 (CCC in those days) and ironically lost his place (to a young Alan Ball) when Ramsey changed his playing style to 4-3-3 ...(so-called "wingless wonders") before the Final game v. W.Germany. Had we NOT won the trophy, Paine would surely have continued as England right winger - ironically Saints had been promoted a month before but TP never played for England again.

I didn't miss him off my list (Patrik,) but I still live in hopes he may have recovered enough to be playing again NEXT season. Certainly the level of League 1 shouldn't be aproblem - if he can stay fit.

Nice story line about TP. He'll get to see the " new Wembley" and good to remember that he holds one record unlikely ever to be equalled - in that he's the only England no.7 to score a hat-trick in a Wembley international. Having scored a goal in the FA jubilee game, England v. Rest of the World 2-1 a month before, Terry really got a taste for the big occasion on his next visit. 20 Nov.1963 Terry single-handedly destoyed the Northern Irish team when England won .......8-3 (!) TP scored a hat-trick himself and laid on FOUR of the other goals. (Jimmy Greaves 4, Bobby Smith 1). Don't fool yourself that N.I. were poor - they had some good players, but it was one time that Terry was just too good for everyone on the day.

even more than 5 years after its issue, I still find In that Number an exciting read (but I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to history, stats). Several recent threads have reminded me of players who we lost, not to other clubs, but to injury / illness. Over the years, we have seen fans favourites /club legends forced to retire with injuries. We all have our own memories but a few who come to mind; George O'Brien striker 1959-64 . G. had a phenomenal goals record, but contracted hepatitis and was out for some months, and never recovered his goal touch. Our legendary Ron Davies 1966-73 was brutally treated by some opponents in later years and lost his sharpness in later seasons. Steve Mills teenage left back in the mid 1970's had England written all over him, already playing U 23 games (aged 20). A serious car crash crippled him and he never regained fitness, later developed Leukemia and died 1988. Sad story too about Ronnie Ekelund who looked to be a revelation in 1994, but a back injury ruined his career and failed to achieve his early promise. Similar sadness over Marian Pahars short lived career. Everyone admits his Springtime goals in 1999kept Saints up in the Premiership with 2 great goals in the last match v. Everton. A brutal tackle by an opponent in a pre-season friendly damaged his ankle and finished his career. He was surely destined to score many more fine goals for Saints...sadly not. Had he been fitter surely MLT could have continued a few years longer. Just some of many heroes who had a far too short career, cut short by injury.

Thanks dockland Dave, this was a spontaneous post on my part right after the game finished, but didn't think it would arouse such strong objections in some people. Maybe in future I'll put such things over to Overseas Saints from the start. My overall impression is that many people like to hear about former players, whether they were much liked, or otherwise. I still have a pang of nostalgia (for example) when I hear about former players who have died...certainly was the case about Ballie and Osgood and even John McGrath who passed away some years back. Gone - but not forgotten.

......but a very pleasant one nevertheless, Mike.

With Stern John, Skacel and Dyer already gone, Rasiak, Saga (and possibly) Euell, Surman and McGoldrick on the way out...the prospect of still seeing Kelvin Davis and BWP remaining in the team seems like a real lift - Doesn't it ?

......you mean like .......Hull, or Burnley ? would seem a bit like playing CCC football again - wouldn't it ?

Mmm.....they'll need someone with a GPS if they are to travel further afield.

Nice to get a bit of acceptance for a game which did have some (ex) saints interest. Those of us a bit longer in the tooth have more of a feeling for our history - as well as our future. Not to mention those faithful fans who visited Sweden on a number of occasions (mostly during Strachan's time) and developed an interest in Sweden and the Swedish game). You summed up the game very well Baj. Zlatan - who scores great goals in the Italian league - just didn't cut it in a fast-flowing game where he was man-marked most of the time. Larsson had a off day and missed a sitter in the last 10 mins, and Källström who seems to do so well in his French clubside, had a poor penalty well-saved by (Stoke's) Sörensen and will have to work really hard if he is ever to replace Anders Svensson in the midfield. The Swedes are in deep trouble - barring a few miraculous away wins next season - and are in a transitional stage with coach Lagerbäck likely to quit (after Sweden are "officially " out of it.) When Henke Larsson does retire (he's 37) and when both Michael and Anders (Svensson) are no longer around they'll be a lot of new team building needed. Waiting to see if one of the THREE Elm brothers (from Kalmar) will make it to the Premiership next season ?

Without injured Anders Svensson, Sweden lost 0-1 to " local rivals " Denmark. Stoke keeper Sörensen saved a penalty from Kim Källström on 12 mins. and proceeded to shut out Sweden for the rest of the game. Another former Saint Michael Nilsson was the villain of the piece on 20 mins. when his clearance across the face of goal - fell to a Danish striker who beat Isaksson from close range. Sweden had more than a dozen shots on goal but Zlatan Ibramimovic, Henke Larsson and Källström all had chances to score but couldn't beat the secure Sörenson. Denmark will win the group while Swedens chances of qualifying for South Africa next year look very slim.

a good bet geographically I suppose, and ...as long as we are in a higher league than them..we stand a good chance of beating them ..I hope.

I have to agree with Just Mike, Beattie had a couple of great seasons and although his England career didn't get started, he was still a bargain for Everton (on paper) - what happened afterwards was his own matter. Blackstock wasn't poor - with Saints. He was young ..and fifth in the pecking order at the time he left. He'd di alright with QPR and will do better with Forest (IMHO.) In all his seasons at SMS Rory Delap was never in a stable role and was used by successive managers as a utility player, and was abused by many for the lack of success with his much-vaunted long throws. He became the terror of the Prem. with his performances for Stoke - so whose fault was it if there weren't goals with Saints? - not his - but those who (didn't) get on the end of the throw-ins.

........and then they'll go to Swansea to get Dyer (when Swans new manager dumps him,) and pay half the fee that we turned down last year. Typical !

well you can call it what you like.....but they are the most-saleable assets we have and hardly likely to improve their careers with a couple of seasons in League 1. Any new manager will obviously be looking for some experienced proffs in the over 30 age-range, who can give as good as they get and " kick " us out of League 1. Both Surman and McG have unrealised potential but it won't show until they are playing in a better side / at a better level. If they want to go - good luck and let's look to the future.

I was thinking of the " abuse " part of the text. Racism cannot be condoned anywhere.. and especially not in sport. Some of the finest players in the country have immigrant backgrounds... ......Scots, Irish and many others.

don't think I mentioned the word...I was only thinking about incidents that might alude to things like.. - perhaps suggesting that an opponent was born out of wedlock... - or that he was having a illict relationship with his mother, or - at worst likening him to a part of the female anatomy ... These days I'm not sure what constitutes racial abuse aside from the obvious references to the the degree of suntan they might have. joking aside lads, rasism has no place in daily life ..and not just football.

Yes it's terrible, all this swearing and abuse on the field. we all know that players don't normally talk to each other like priests in a seminary.....so here are some suggestions for approved player comments; Excuse me, did I trip you up ? - it was entirely unintentional. Yes, that's correct referee - I did handle the ball unfairly, shall I walk now or do you officially need to show me that red card ..? Yes I understand you only kicked my ankle by accident , ..but it does hurt though . Sorry old chum, it seems me elbow caught you right in the mouth when we both jumped for that corner. Yes, I can see the blood in your mouth, and those teeth on the ground.. I'm most terribly sorry. Can I buy you a beer later to make up for it ? It's terribly regretable that I accidentally took hold of your shirt and stopped you from scoring, but I lost my balance and in falling and I just grabbed at anything. Never mind the ref. didn't see us so, there's no harm done, Eh ? Now .....if we had better behaviour from players and a few more friendly responses like these, everyone would be much happier and we could see some fair play, as we do in ...CRICKET !.......... Howzat ?

.......and then the long trip to Havant & Waterlooville, Basingstoke and finally v.Winchester City. All days out and low cost travel.

....starting with a training swim across the water from Hurst Castle, no doubt. only the fittest will make it before the tide water rises.

as someone else has written ..we got scre*ed on that one !

I'm sure we have..........I hope there were some sell on clauses,he's sure to be transferred to a Prem. club sometime - for a darn sight more than £400K!

IF ......this is true, I hope to goodness that there are a LOT of add-ons. 400K is chicken feed.

...with everyone's eyes on the latest news and the vultures circling... clubs like Swansea (Dyer), Notts Forest (McG) or Newcastle (Surman ) are looking to pick up bargains by offering crumbs to a starving man. It appears that Pinnacle are on the way to tying up the loose ends to a deal and so we should stand our ground until our new owners come in with real backing and we don't need to panic sell right now, and later we can bargain from a position of strength - with new funds available. As I understand it, no deals are valid until July 1st anyway, so why the panic, we've come this far ..a couple more weeks won't make the difference now. I don't care WHO it is .. If they want to go, and to further their careers elsewhere......OK so be it. Thanks and goodbye ! They decide their own future, but we mustn't allow ourselves to be bamboozled out of a genuine fee and a deal with sell-on clauses is a must for everyone..or see McG moving on to a prem club is 3 years for many millions more than we sell him for.