david in sweden

It's true of course, Simon Gillett was consistantly ignored at a period when we won " Manager of the Month " every time ...with a NEW manager each month. Simon was left out of squads, rather like another former player...Chris Baird, who came from N.I. as a 16 year old ....and didn't get a regular spot until he was past 22. Gillett was frozen out, and out on loan probably ignored because he wasn't 6' tall ...and got kicked around a bit. Hopefully he'll get a regular place now as he seems to have toughend up a lot this season. We have an embarrassing record of releasing players who might be "shorter than average" in height...amongst others ...Dennis Wise and Kevin Phillips (when they were teenagers). Looking back a long way (as I can) quite a few players who were shorter in stature made good careers in the game. Billy Bremner and Ron (Chopper) Harris, and Kevin Keegan (who was only 5'8" in his big boots). In our own golden oldies list; Terry Paine was only 5' 7" and John Sydenham was 5' 6"...(so there's hope yet for Simon G.)

Yes that surprised me, too. There seemed to be a lot of good press about him last year, but suddenly ....?

God points Adrians, I recall when Terry Paine started his " second " career, as a midfielder when he was (only) 31/32 , he looked pretty fresh then , too. Alan Ball used to say(in later years ) that he played the ball ACROSS the field instead of up field ..and had the young Steve Williams do the running and acting as his " legs". and ......not forgetting the legendary Jimmy Case who came to us (from Brighton!) when he was 31 and had half a dozen memorable seasons before he fell out with Ian Branfoot (who didn't ?) and was sacked by IB. Even at 37 his career wasn't over. Great days !

though it sounds an interesting link..he wouldn't be the first player to have a " more famous " brother, yet not be upto par himself. I think at least one of Matt Le Tissiers brothers had a trial at The Dell, but didn't make it, and Joseph (Fish) Mills is the last of four brothers to get a contract with Saints, but only Matt (Mills) has really made any sort of career (Doncaster). Might be impressive but think ..he might be no better than Ollie Lancashire ! if he's been released by Orient.

What ANOTHER Dutchman ? ...maybe he got the tip from JP that there was a likely vacancy at SMS. Hope his managerial record is half as good as his playing career - he was a phenomenal striker.

Agree Sid, I think it was especially hard on Paterson in the Cup game v. M.U. Yes it was a foul, but had it been any other referee and any other opponents his tackle might only have warranted a free kick - and hardly even a yellow, let alone red.

Well I don't think it was deliberate, but when I saw the names for the bench it was pretty obvious that they were going to get some playing time in a last match of no real consequence. It was Gasmi's last chance - which came to nothing, and he's gone anyway. Ollie Lancashire had another short outing in the back four and though I haven't heard anyone blame him for goals no.2 and 3, it's no surprise to me as I really don't think he's up for it ..(yet). Gobern has already impressed and his short run-out was a sort of a reward. The overall effect of three late substituitions and conceding 2 goals was predictable, and deliberate or not...it saved us extra pay-outs.

He seems to have more admirers at Watford than at SMS. As he's still under contract let's hope that the new regime is smart enough to get a good fee for him when he moves to Vicarage Road.

Very interesting comments Teddy Nutkins...whatever was your playing name ? You of all people can surely appreciate what it is like from both sides. If you were "released " as it is politely called...then you know the pain, but you can probably see from the clubs aspect - they can't keep everyone! Experienced coaches can see what talents the player has - even at a young age. I've even heard a coach (can't remember who ?) who said that if they (lads) haven't got it in them by the time they're 16 - then it's very hard to " train it " in to them. (the potential / talent that is). That sounds very harsh, but it may be quite true, especially at the highest club level - although there are exceptions who turn up as " late-developers " The real problem is that many players who are brilliant when young but "burn out" before they reach 30. (examples George Best, quit when he was 27) and Paul Gascoine,( say no more ) - even Micheal Owen - who can forget him in 1998 - can't get a regular place in Newcastle's relegation-bound team. Hopefully our ex-Academy lads will make a career somewhere, but it's going to be embarrassing if they end up in a Prem. club after being freed by us.

MY answer---take this 'orrible decision about the points penalty ...fight it in the High Court---and win, and force the FA to reverse their decision. GIVE US BACK OUR TEN POINTS !!!

..as I see there's another thread dealing with the first teamers who are staying / on their way....let's give a word for the youth players who have seen the end of their career with SFC...at least it's these so far. Jamie Hatch, Jeffrey Imudia, Liam Hogan, Mikael Dolinjec and Lukas Stiklakis.. I guess they all had some promise at some time otherwise we wouldn't have signed them in the first place, but it's a painful task to tell a lad that he's got no future with his first club. Though only names to most fans, at least those who don't faithfully watch Youth games at Staplewood. I recall a story told be Gordon Strachan (when at Coventry) his first task was to tell an 18 year old that his time was up.The lad was so overcome he burst into tears and WGS had to comfort him for 30 mins. (Apparantly he went on to have some sort of a career in the Irish League) And so we move on.. and hope that we can get something out of the bunch thats left. Their names will appear in some obscure page of the Saints history, along with those others who have gone before them. Players like; Dennis Wise and Kevin Phillips (wonder what happened to them ?) Others like Scott McDonald, Dexter Blackstock and Brian Howard. Maybe if they've got into a Prem. or Championship side somewhere ? . In the light of recent events, they might consider their career move was a success - when you look at where we are next season. Let's hope that none of the above (names from this season) come back to haunt us in 5 years time.

Yes Gillett's a tough little guy, worth his place and I think Lloyd James has improved a lot, too...as for the others ...?

Agreed Duncan, I think that another point not clarified very well - is that the position regarding ownership of the stadium itself (SMS) which is ... I believe? ...owned by a separate company within Leisure Holdings Group ... The largest part of the debt is obviously the stadium itself ..and although not insignificant ..the overdraft debt (of SFC) to their bank is considerably less than the £30 million fig. everyone is bandying about. Is this the case ...Does SFC " own " the stadium ? ..or is it the "Arena Company" who are officially owners.? It's never been totally clear to me.

Actually I think one of the problems is that we DIDN'T pay Notts County the money for DMG.! One thread suggested that we have an outstanding debt to County on this deal, and we also owe money to Bournemouth for some part of Lallana's move.

No really ! I know some will say they're responsible for the relegation, (and that's not wrong,) but almost every game this season we've had 5-6 Academy / former Academy lads on the pitch at one time or another. Most would have been glad to have got a place on the bench a year ago, instead of which they've had to bear the brunt of the season, and the stress was too much. YES I know that many times we liked the possession football, but not the 90 minute score. However, whatever they learned will go out the window with the (possible) departure of the midfield trio, Saga and maybe DMG and Euell. I can't see an eventual new coach keeping them all in the squad next season. Those who are left will be glad to stay as the "new" manager will undoubtedly have to bring in a few more experienced players and the budding talents like ; Thomson, White, Paterson, Gillett and Gobern ...will be back to the Reserves or be rewarded with the last 10 minutes run-out from the bench. I hope I'm wrong, but if you were taking over would keep them all on.. and hope they do better than this season- think not !

I'm surprised he took the job in the " second place" because RL promised him the job once before and then ditched him in favour of Burley instead. As Lowe gave him the job last summer, no fool would come out and openly criticise his chairman (at least he was diplomatic enough to avoid doing that) can't help thinking we might have done a bit better had he started as manager in August. That long period with JP at the helm more or less sunk us even before he (MW) took over. At least he used a few more experienced players that JP did. (Some people commented that JP never consulted him anyway and they didn't get along !) Still it's all history now, and as for keeping him ....No ..sorry Mark. Good effort, but there are too many negatives at present and a new chairman would be putting his own head on the block - if we start next season as we finished this one...the knives would be out for everyone.

Mmmm, are you sure Saint Jersey ? I thought I detected ....a little doubt ....in your response .......?

well done Stax, I'm a stats. man myself, but nice that someone checked on it. THX.

it was the England managers " revenge " on the South Coast's country boys... Had MLT moved to a London club ( say Spurs..) he'd have played in every game.

BUT on the other hand, did we have less home wins than any other club ? ..in the (whatever he said )...... It's the LEAST number of home games we've won in any prev.season? or...?

Of course ! He's put his life blood into the club, and even as " boot boy" ...I bet he's a great encouragement to everyone. What else is he going to do ? ...sit in front of TV with a six-pack and watch second rate Euro matches.? NO WAY ! ..get him back and let him stay till he want to quit!

it all seemd to fall apart after the subs....was Ollie Lancashire involved at all? or to blame for either goal, I do feel sorry for the lad, he had a terrible first season, but is he one for the future?

Have to go with that one Gaz, Just look at the Prem, as an example. It's hard to find an ENGLISH manager (a few) and most of those are at the bottom end of the table! There are more Scots than anything...and Benitez, Hiddink and Wenger haven't got UK passports either! Nationality doesn't matter as long as they have a grasp of the English game. League 1 is an enigma to many of us. At best we can hope for someone who has played football at a good level (preferably Prem.)...AND / OR, a former international who has managed at a lower level and someone with good tactical sense. I liked Strachan a lot, but he was very one track and didn't use players that didn't fit into his pattern instead of what he now does Celtic, namely use a formation that utilises the best talents he has in the squad.

As we seem to have threads on HCDAJFU and rumours ..every close season .. How about an A-Z of the current playing staff...first teamers, academy, everyone.. and an update on who stays and wants to go. ....and even NEW signings ..if such a thing can be contemplated (!) Updated by YOURSELVES and based on definite info. from the club. e.g. player A- out of contract - likely going to .......club x player B- will be staying next season .........C- subject of bids from three clubs. Poss.fee 500K ....etc, etc, ONE site that everyone see see - at a glance. It will save lots of unnecessary wasteful threads on pointless rumours and we'll soon lose track of the overall picture.