SaintJackoInHurworth

I think we need to do something a bit different so how about trying out 3/5 at the back with the full backs given freedom to bomb up the wing? It might look like this: [table] [tr] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Macca[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td][/td] [td]Stephens[/td] [td]Yoshida[/td] [td]Hoedt[/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [tr] [td]Cedric/Pied[/td] [td][/td] [td]Romeu[/td] [td][/td] [td]Bertrand[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td][/td] [td] JWP[/td] [td]Lemina[/td] [td]McQueen[/td] [/tr] [tr] [td][/td] [td][/td] [td]Austin[/td] [td][/td] [td][/td] [/tr] [/table] My slight reservations is that I wonder if maybe we need a bit more experience in there, so maybe we should play Davis rather than JWP. Nevertheless, JWP does give us that extra option from set pieces and his form and confidence has been better than most of the squad this season! To explain the line-up a little, I see Lemina playing as a box-to-box midfielder rather than as a static central midfielder. Also JWP/Davis plus McQueen can provide a combination of width or defensive compact-ness in midfield thus helping us to be defensively tighter and offering something different in the attacking third of the pitch.

I know it is clutching at straws, but Huddersfield and Stoke both have tough run-ins like us and like us they are losing almost everything at the moment. Palace, too, seem to have begun to misfire a little again. I can't see us getting many points between now and the end of the season, but if they continue to do as badly as they are, then it still gives us some hope we probably do not deserve to have!

MoPe was lacking in a backup plan and lacking in ideas. Sadly our performance against West Ham seems to have been as bad if not worse (though I'm hesitant to comment as I was not there!) It strikes me that what we need is to do something radically different. Here are a few thoughts/ideas... * I'm not a big fan of Yoshida, but can't help feeling we need his experience in the defence. Maybe we need to follow the recent trend and try three at the back with the full-backs released to take a more attacking role. Talking of experience in defensive positions, we should also be playing with Romeu in defensive midfield surely? * Also, while I love attacking flair wingers, I can't help thinking that the confidence of Boufal, Redmond and Tadic is so shot that we might be better playing with Sims, Ward-Prowse and McQueen instead. I know there are many on here who don't like JWP, but there have been some times this season when he has seemed like the only one who actually cares so maybe he should be given his chance again? * As for up-front, maybe again Sims or one of the younger players? Though, admittedly, Austin was only just coming back from injury and whoever is up-front is not going to score without the right service. Sadly I don't think two up-front is the solution, unless one of those is also fulfilling a midfield role. * I also wonder if Steven Davis could be key for us when he is back from injury as he can bring a lot of much needed experience like Yoshida. OK - I know some of those players I have mentioned would not be on many people's choice of first team, but with confidence as it is, I think we have got to do something different. What other ideas do people have? (and don't bother replying if you are just going to answer 'we are doomed, there is nothing we can do' - there are plenty of other threads for that opinion).

There has been talk about how much our current malaise is the fault of the players. As I write Saints are losing 3-0 at half time to West Ham and some fans are already jumping on the bandwagon that says 'It's all the player's fault'. Now I'm not about to defend what sounds like a gutless first half performance but I think it is simplistic of some fans to now simply jump to this conclusion without a bit more analysis. I think there are a few things to be considered here: 1. These players are playing without confidence following the woeful mis-management of MoPe. Sadly, I'm not convinced instilling confidence is one of Mark Hughes' greater traits as a manager. 2. A number of these players are not being played in their best formation and best positions. Mark Hughes cannot be expected to suss that out immediately, but sadly time is against him and that is exactly what he is being asked to do. Many have commented that Tadic and Redmond should be swapped in position; to that we can add that Lemina is a good box-to-box player, but not a good holding player; similarly, Hojbjerg is also not a holding player. 3. We are lacking leaders on the pitch. Van Dijk provided that leadership and Romeu provides that leadership (but has been dropped to the bench by Hughes). The next best leader is Davis who is presumably injured. 4. We are lacking experience. We have so many younger players that it is hard for these players to draw on experience to help themselves. Romeu, Davis, Cedric, Bertrand and Long have experience, but we particularly need that experience in the middle and that is not where we have got it at present. All-in-all, these players should be doing better, but many of them are far from the finished article. The failure to bring in a leader to replace Van Dijk has been a big mistake. Also, I fear that Mark Hughes may not be the man who can quickly get-to-grips with what we need to do in this situation. I don't want to criticize him too soon and we have got to get behind him and the players, but I can't help but feel that the club were wrongly resistant to appointing a manager who might have been better skilled in this circumstance. As things stand as I write, it looks like our relegation is inevitable, but nevertheless, let's still get behind the side and see if there is any way we can cheer them on to a surprise against one of the bigger clubs.

I thought that with the international break and with a lot of the squad being around to train together and with MoPe gone we might do ok today, but now my fears that we appointed the wrong man are coming to the fore. I am not about to start criticising Mark Hughes, but he has got to earn his salt now or we are down and his football management careers will be in tatters! Nevertheless, come on Hughsey - sort this mess out!!!

Personally, I would expect it to be announced some time tomorrow. In terms of changes I don't particularly anticipate much change in playing personnel - I just expect a faster, more aggressive, attacking style of football - whichever candidate is appointed. A few thoughts about changes though... * Redmond - I anticipate him relishing the opportunity to be more direct and for him to return to form. * Lemina - as above. * Defence - I suspect we will see a return for Yoshida with a new manager opting for more experience. We may see five at the back. * Wigan - if the manager is appointed in time for that match, I think it may give him the opportunity to experiment a little, though hopefully not in a way that will jeopardise our chances of getting a win. If there had not been an international break straight afterwards and if we appoint Hughes, I wonder if he might have played the reserves. I am not particularly expecting that on this occasion. * Attack - I would anticipate Gabbiadini and/or Austin to feature most prominently. I don't expect Long to get much game time. It remains to be seen whether Carrillo will play much. I guess he may play until Austin is fit but we wil have to see after that.

Firstly, please accept my apologies that I've already posted on this topic in this thread: https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?59509-If-we-sack-Pellegrino-we-can-still-survive HOWEVER, seeing as MoPe has now finally been sacked and I have not got the ability to edit my posts I thought I would start again here!... In the light of this weekend's other results (especially the West Ham result) I think our odds of survival have just improved. I previously analysed the remaining fixtures here: https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?59469-Relegation-The-Run-In&p=2603593#post2603593 Yet, while Saints are already one point and three goals worse off than what I predicted, with a change of manager we can improve on my prediction by getting at least a point at Swansea, beating West Ham, taking a point from Leicester and/or Everton and maybe even taking a point from either Arsenal or Chelsea. Nevertheless, we could still be struggling to reach the magical 40-point target. Meanwhile the meltdown at West Ham could be great news for us. They are 3 points worse off than I predicted and a defeat against us and failures to beat Stoke and /or Everton could leave them stranded - though conversely that could also help Stoke out if they are not already down and out by mid-April. The facts of the matter are that we could have a chance to escape but it will be a close run thing with West Brom bottom and the other two places likely to be out of Huddersfield, West Ham, Palace, Stoke and Saints, with Newcastle still a possibility to be dragged back into it if they fail to capitalise on their win over us with a win against Huddersfield at the end of the month. Swansea, too, cannot be ruled out, especially if we can beat them at their place! Pondering all of this, but without being too precise, I'm going to stick my neck out and predict that with a good managerial appointment we could end up with the following final bottom of the table: 13 Swansea 14 Newcastle 15 C.Palace 16 Saints 17 Stoke 18 Huddersfield 19 West Ham 20 West Brom

It's ok... I have found it!!!!! Either that or the club read my thread and realised they had forgotten to sack him...!

I'm struggling to find the news of MoPe's sacking online... where is it? Surely there can be no reason to keep him: With him: * We have barely any chance of staying up * We are not able to plan for next season * Many fans cannot be bothered to attend matches as they know we will just get the same old crap * The players remain fed up, unmotivated and frustrated by his bizarre selections and tactics Without him * We have some chance of staying up * We are maybe able to make some plans for next season - especially if we bring in a manager/coach who may be here next season * Fans may have a renewed hope and more may attend matches and get behind the team * The toxic atmosphere at home matches may be removed * The players may become re-motivated by the opportunity of achieving something at the end of the season and showing their abilities - especially those players who are hoping to play in the world cup There are so many other reasons... so where is the news of his sacking. Only a bunch of fools will not have sacked him yet. Surely we don't have a bunch of fools as directors of our great club?

Not only is Pellegrino useless, but he is deluded too as the article in today's Echo shows: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/16078914.Pellegrino_believes_he_can_still_save_Saints/ There is no way Pellegrino can save Saints. The only way Saints can be saved is for Pellegrino to go. Who they then appoint is a different question but like someone has commented, even no manager is better than Pellegrino. Incidentally, The Sun newspaper are surveying Saints fans through 'The Voice of The Fans' and so far over 90% have said that they want Pellegrino to be sacked straight away. Of course, it is looking like it won't happen. Sadly, I am coming to a dawning realisation that the board will either just wait until we are booted out of the cup by Wigan or until we are beaten by West Ham or even that they could just do nothing until we are already relegated at the end of the season.

I know we all feel that the club should have acted weeks ago to sack Pellegrino. I know too that many feel it is now too late to do anything and that relegation is a certainty in view of our very difficult fixture list. However, in the midst of all the gloom and doom of today's woeful performance there is some hope. That hope is that we were not the only ones who hot thrashed! So did West Brom, so did West Ham, so did Brighton while Palace also lost and Swansea & Huddersfield could only cancel each other out in a goalless draw. That is where there is the feintest glimmer of hope. If those other teams also continue to misfire then another manager may only need to achieve 3 or so more points than we are likely to reap under Pellegrino and thus we may stand a feint chance of surviving! The silution then remains... Sack Pellegrino and give iurselves a chance! Sent from my GT-I9195I using Tapatalk

I thought I would have a go at making some predictions of results and seeing what difference it will make. The results were very depressing... SWANSEA - P29, GD -17, 30 points March 10 - Huddersfield Town (A) 1-1 TBC - Southampton (H) 2-1 March 31 - Manchester United (A) 0-2 April 7 - West Bromwich Albion (A) 1-1 April 14 - Everton (H) 2-1 April 21 - Manchester City (A) 0-3 April 28 - Chelsea (H) 1-2 May 5 - Bournemouth (A) 1-2 May 13 - Stoke City (H) 2-1 11 points -> 41 points in total / GD = -21 14 WEST HAM - P29, GD-18, 30 points March 10 - Burnley (H) 2-1 TBC - Manchester United (H) 1-2 March 31 - Southampton (H) 1-1 April 8 - Chelsea (A) 0-2 April 16 - Stoke (H) 2-0 April 23- Arsenal (A) 1-2 April 29 - Manchester City (H) 0-2 May 5 - Leicester (A) 1-2 May 13 - Everton (H) 2-1 10 points -> 40 points in total / GD = -21 15 HUDDERSFIELD - P29, GD-25, 30 points March 10 - Swansea City (H) 1-1 March 17 - Crystal Palace (H) 2-1 March 31 - Newcastle United (A) 1-2 April 7 - Brighton (A) 1-2 April 14 - Watford (H) 1-1 April 21 - Chelsea (A) 0-2 April 28 - Everton (H) 1-1 May 5 - Manchester City (A) 0-4 May 13 - Arsenal (H) 1-1 7 points -> 37 points in total /GD = -28 16 NEWCASTLE - P29, GD -13, 29 points March 10 - Southampton (H) 1-1 TBC - Tottenham Hotspur (A) 0-2 March 31 - Huddersfield Town (H) 2-1 April 7 - Leicester City (A) 1-3 April 15 - Arsenal (H) 1-1 April 21 - Everton (A) 1-3 April 28 - West Bromwich Albion (H) 2-0 May 5 - Watford (A) 1-2 May 13 - Chelsea (H) 1-2 8 points -> 37 points in total / GD = -18 17 SOUTHAMPTON - P29, GD-12, 28 points March 10 - Newcastle United (A) 1-1 TBC - Swansea City (A) 1-2 March 31 - West Ham United (A) 1-1 April 9 - Arsenal (A) 1-2 April 14 - Chelsea (H) 1-2 April 21 - Leicester City (A) 1-2 April 28 - Bournemouth (H) 2-1 May 5 - Everton (A) 1-2 May 13 - Manchester City (H) 0-2 5 points -> 33 points in total / GD = -18 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17 CRYSTAL PALACE - P29, GD-19, 27 points 10 - Chelsea (A) March 17 - Huddersfield Town (A) 1-2 March 31 - Liverpool (H) 1-2 April 7 - Bournemouth (A) 1-2 April 14 - Brighton (H) 2-1 April 21 - Watford (A) 1-2 April 28 - Leicester City (H) 2-1 May 5 - Stoke City (A) 1-1 May 13 - West Bromwich Albion (H) 2-0 10 points -> 37 points in total / GD = -19 19 STOKE - P28, GD-26, 26 points March 10 - Manchester City (H) 1-3 March 17 - Everton (H) 1-1 March 3 - Arsenal (A) 0-2 April 7 - Tottenham Hotspur (H) 1-2 April 14 - West Ham United (A) 0-2 April 21 - Burnley (H) 2-2 April 28 - Liverpool (A) 0-3 May 5 - Crystal Palace (H) 1-1 May 13 - Swansea City (A) 1-2 3 points -> 29 points in total / GD = -37 20 WEST BROM - P28, GD-20, 20 points March 3 - Watford (A) 1-2 March 10 - Leicester (H) 2-1 March 17 - Bournemouth (A) 1-2 March 31 - Burnley (H) 1-1 April 7 - Swansea (H) 1-1 April 15 - Man Utd (A) 0-2 April 22 - Liverpool (H) 1-3 April 28 - Newcastle (A) 0-2 May 5 - Spurs (H) 1-3 May 13 - Crystal Palace (A) 0-2 5 points -> 25 points in total / GD = -31 Final Table of these teams Team.............. Pts ........ GD Swansea......... 41 ......... -21 W.Ham ........... 40 ......... -21 Newcastle ...... 37 ......... -18 C. Palace ....... 37 ......... -19 Huddersfield .... 37 ......... -28 ------------------------------ Saints ............ 33 ......... -18 Stoke ............ 29 ......... -37 West Brom ...... 25 ......... -31 Of course there are fine margins in all of this. If we manage somehow to beat Newcastle this weekend, suddenly this table changes to us on 35 points and Newcastle on 36 points. If they then drop one more point compared to my prediction we could end up staying up above them on goal difference! What is abundantly clear, however, is that we are facing some very difficult home fixtures so our away form is going to be crucial. Personally, though, I don't think we have a chance... unless by some miracle the board see sense and sack Pellegrino and the manager coming in is able to inspire us to get enough results to see us across the line!

Ivan Golac Rodney Wallace Jeff Kenna (?) Ryan Bertrand Chris Nicholl (?) Mark Wright Neil Maddison Neil Ruddock (?) Mickey Adams Iain Dowie (?) Ken Monkou Matt Oakley Wayne Bridge Chris Marsden Marian Pahars Andrew Surman

I can see what both of you are saying here about whether it is the quality of the strikers or the manager that is the issue. The truth is, of course, that it is to some degree both. Quality strikers are hard to come by and/or often expensive, so it is hard to acquire the highest quality strikers; and we can all see the weaknesses in the strikers that we have: Austin is a great goal poacher but lacks pace; Long works hard and has pace but often lacks that killer instinct in front of goal; Gabbiadini brings some flare and variety to the attack but is inconsistent; Redmond can dribble past players but his shooting is woeful... and so on... The facts of the matter, however, are that all of our squad used to get a lot more goals than they now do, including the strikers. That, therefore, brings into focus the questions about how well they are being coached and whether they are being given the right tactical instructions. Back before Christmas there was a big issue around Redmond and Guardiola and the long and short of that was that Guardiola was criticising Redmond for not playing to his strengths, but Redmond asserted that he was doing what he had been asked to do by Pellegrino. I suspect you could find similar stories throughout the squad with players trying to maintain unity and backing the coach by doing what he asks, but finding themselves frustrated because those approaches are not delivering the success they could achieve if they played to a different set of instructions. A change of manager may not suddenly turn some of our players into world beaters, but it may enable them to play to their strengths instead of playing to a coaching dogma set by Pellegrinio which clearly is not working.

I voted 'Sack Him'. He hasn't improved - we have got worse as the season has progressed. OK, we have recently achieved our first win in ages - but that was just about scraped against the team that is bottom and which has been cut adrift from the rest. At the very least a new manager could achieve the honeymoon effect, which in itself could be enough to help us stay up. I cannot see us getting enough points with MoPe still in charge. I too cannot see any good reasons for keeping the manager. Fan The Flames argues we will be able to attract a better calibre of manager in the summer, but that is rubbish. If we are relegated there will be certain managers that would not give any consideration to joining us, but who might be prepared to join a Premier League side. So that argument only works if we will be able to keep our place in the Premier League. At present, with our forthcoming fixtures and based on MoPe's record so far, I don't think that is likely unless we make the change. As for establishing a culture of regularly changing manager, that is sadly already in place due to what has happened in recent seasons. We certainly need to break out of this, but it would be bonkers to prioritise that over avoiding relegation. Other than those weak arguments I am struggling to see any reason not to sack him. I guess it could be pointed out that sometimes a change of manager doesn't help (other than a possible honeymoon effect), but sadly our form is so poor that it cannot be much worse and I believe these players are good enough that with the right management they can be coached to achieve much more. Besides as I have said already, even thathoneymoon effect could make all the difference. All I can wonder is whether there are some short term financial benefits to Gao and/or the directors if we get relegated - maybe it would allow him/them to liquidate some assets; maybe it would release some transfer payments (e.g. from Liverpool as part of the VVD deal); maybe the difference in rules between the EPL and EFL has some significance; or maybe there is a massive financial payout (e.g. £20-30 million or more) duie if we sack MoPe before the end of his first season (but it would have to be a significant amount bearing in mind the real cost of getting relegated in terms of lost TV payments). The only other possible excuse for not sacking him is if they have researched every one of the possible replacements and discovered that none of them would be able/happy to join the club before the end of the season. I can't believe, though, that no-one would consider taking it on! In particular, surely it would be an ideal job for Silva?

Sometime before Christmas I swung from being a fan who was prepared to give MoPe a little more time to one who felt he had to go. As time goes on I have become more and more certain that we have got to get rid of him. Yet the club, for whatever reason, seem intent on keeping him on as manager. I don't understand that, but it is what it is. So, if we do have to keep him on, the big question must be what can he do (and particularly what must he change) to get us to play to our strengths and to get some confidence and get some better results? Here are a few suggestions: * Attack with more pace, in order to be able to press forward and catch the opposition out before they can get organised. * Practice shooting with all players. * Practice making that final telling ball that will provide the kind of chances we need to create. * Organise the defence, laying down clear but simple instructions and guidelines. * Build up player fitness and speed. * Provide better motivation to the players - if language restricts the ability to communicate the passion required, identify the player(s) or coach(es) who can provide this. * Build up player confidence - especially for players like Redmond and Gabbiadini. * Work on mental toughness and a winning psychology. * Develop the kind of pressing game that worked so well under Pochettino and identify the players who can implement that. * Work on being less nice and more assertive, bordering on the aggressive while keeping (mostly) within the law. * Practice mixing up approaches including occasionally resorting to a more direct longer ball (without going as far as to develop a a full long-ball approach). * Get the players together to arrive at an agreed approach to tactics and game managhement instead of (allegedly) asserting tactics with which the players don't agree. And here are a couple of slightly more alternative tactical possibilities: * Play Jack Stephens as centre forward. * Play both Bertrand and McQueen together to provide both width and defensive cover. Do you agree with any of those? Can you suggest any others? Are there any you disagree with? Why?

Alan Pardew has been working hard to turn it around at West Brom, but our win against them today makes it even harder for him. I feel a little bit sorry for him as I always thought our sacking of him several years ago seemed a bit harsh at the time (putting aside claims made on here that there were other significant contributory factors). Pardew's career seems to have been on a downwards trajectory ever since we sacked him and you have got to think that if he fails to keep West Brom up he will be sacked again and he will find it very hard to find another club to manage.

Can I finish that second statement for you..? "Squad is not good enough at the back due to not replacing the manager." (Though it is a disgrace that we haven't replaced VVD either)

I'd agree with both of these. While I feel our board in previous seasons has shown how a football club should be run, it now feels like they have convinced themselves that they are the experts and beyond reproach. If they don't wake up and smell the coffee then they have got too big for the club and need to be replaced. Now they are facing the last chance saloon to see whether they can turn things around. In my opinion, their only hope of doing that is to sack Pellegrino and appoint Silva immediately. Otherwise we are ridiculously doomed.

If we can get a winner then we are up to 15th and would be just three points behind Bournemouth in tenth. Concede a goal and lose and we are two points off the bottom!

Interesting that no-one has picked up on my reference to Silva. Does no-one think that he would be in the running should MoPe get sacked? Personally I would far rather Silva than Hughes! Or would he be too expensive? Presumably being sacked twice within a year should reduce the wages he would be able to demand?

I was just looking through the forum and it appears that the threads calling for MoPo to be sacked and/or for protests against him seem to have slipped down the pecking order. Is this a sign that we are now resigned to the club keeping him or are some fans now changing their mind? Do fans still feel he should be sacked? Personally, I wonder if the club are just biding their time for the end of the transfer window so as to not affect any last minute dealings. If that is the case then if we lose (or only draw) against Brighton, maybe we will see some action finally being taken on Thursday? I am still hoping that MoPo will be replaced by Silva. I answered a 'Voice of the Fans' survey yesterday which I believe will have been published in The Sun today. It was showing that Pellegrino was the manager that most people thought would be next to go.

So, if we sign Promes and a centre back and/or a keeper (looking unlikely but you never know) who would be omitted from the squad? I assume it would be out of Gardos, Taylor or Rose unless we were to sell or loan out Gabbiadini or Long. Anyone got any thoughts?

I think it's a good point and probably makes no difference to the managerial situation as I think the board will feel sacking the manager just before the close of the transfer window would jeopardise any potential transfers in. Nevertheless, I hope from here that either of two things happens from here: 1. Pellegrino is sacked as soon as the transfer window shuts or straight after our first defeat or embarrassing capitulation from a seeming almost guaranteed win situation. 2. Everything suddenly clicks into place, the team start looking like a good team and we go on an unbeaten run, moving up into the top half of the table. Sadly, I doubt that the second is likely to happen, but when it doesn't I fear that the first doesn't either and the board dithers and waits until it is too late to do anything!

I'm going to go for the following turn of events: Spurs (h) - defeat Watford (h, cup) - draw followed by defeat in replay Brighton (h) - draw West Brom (a) - defeat -> Pellegrino is finally sacked Liverpool (h) - draw Burnley (a) - defeat Stoke (h) - win Newcastle (a) - draw Swansea (a) - win West Ham (a) - draw Arsenal (a) - defeat Chelsea (h) - draw Leicester (a) - draw Bournemouth (h) - win Everton (a) - draw Man City (h) - draw That is 16 points which when added to our current 21 points would give us 37 points. With that we will be border line between relegation and staying up. I will go for just staying up: 1. Man City 2. Man Utd 3. Liverpool 4. Spurs 5. Chelsea (Conte knows he is quickly going out of favour so buys Crouch and makes weird team selections so that they just miss out on Champions League) 6. Arsenal 7. Burnley 8. Leicester (Their climb up the table loses a little momentum after seeling Mahrez to Liverpool, but they still have enough to finish eighth reach a cup final where they are unjustly beaten due to a bad refereeing decision) 9. Everton 10. West Ham 11. Watford 12. Stoke 13. Crystal Palace 14. Huddersfield 15. Newcastle 16. Swansea 17. Saints 18. Bournemouth 19. Brighton 20. West Brom