SaintJackoInHurworth

I thought he was OK and hopeful he will get better. However, I disagree that the one save he did have to make was a "great stop". I agree with the MOTD taters and analysts that he could have done better with it. While it veered a little he nearly dropped it and if he had done so he would have looked a complete buffoon. Nevertheless, Boruc made far worse handling errors for us in his early games in a Saints shirt, so I am happy to just that down as 'one of those things'. As for Boruc, despite early misgivings when he first played for us two years ago, I have grown to appreciate him as a keeper and will be disappointed if he leaves. If he does leave it will be a concern as to who will cover for him. Nevertheless, hopefully Forster will not have as many absences from the team as Boruc has done. In the longer term I hope that Cropper will benefit from the training he receives from our new goalkeeping coach and that in a year or so he can replace Kelvin (and/or Boruc) as understudy to Forster.

Are you comparing Liverpool's performance against us at Anfield or at St Mary's? Their performance against us at St Mary's was certainly sublime and today's performance was not a patch on that. If I remember correctly, however, it came at a time when we were not playing well and we allowed them to play well. Suarez was also at his best at the time, as was Sturridge. As for their performance against us at Anfield last season, we pretty much completely outplayed them that day. If you are referring to that match then your memory of it seems to have been blurred as Suarez did not play in that game!

Are you comparing Liverpool's performance against us at Anfield or at St Mary's? Their performance against us at St Mary's was certainly sublime and today's performance was not a patch on that. If I remember correctly, however, it came at a time when we were not playing well and we allowed them to play well. Suarez was also at his best at the time, as was Sturridge. As for their performance against us at Anfield last season, we pretty much completely outplayed them that day. If you are referring to that match then your memory of it seems to have been blurred as Suarez did not play in that game!

It's amazing how different people's opinions are on here. FWIW, my opinions are: Forster: Looked a bit nervous, especially with handling. Kicking was fairly good and helped to switch defence into attack on a couple of occasions. Didn't really make any significant saves of note. Clyne: Great performance in attack and also provided a great outlet for exchanges of passes in midfield. A little weaker in defence and was slow to respond to Sturridge's movement and lost him for their second goal. For the first goal however, it was Clyne who was left trying to tidy up following Yoshida's failure to deal with Sterling. Yoshida: Better performance than some he has made for Saints, but was caught out of position for their first goal and contributed to indecision in defence. Fonte: Generally a good performance. Bertrand: Better going forward than in defence and combined well with Tadic on a few occasions. Doesn't provide the speed and quality of cross that we had with Shaw, but does seem to be a good passer of the ball. Possible prone to getting caught out of position. Wanyama: Great tackling and short passes. A rock in front of the defence. Schneiderlin: On several occasions he was simply too good for anyone else on the pitch, with his ability to turn out of trouble and lay the ball off faultlessly to others. Koeman clearly likes short passes, so his ability to pick out and complete a longer pass was under-utilised. JWP: Despite the criticisms of some on here, I think this was one of his best performances for Saints. His attempts at goal were audacious and brilliant and he deserved a goal for at least one of them. While he looked a little lightweight at times in the first half, in the second he discovered a confidence to do more with the ball and was a real threat to Liverpool. There were signs that he is beginning to step up the quality of his game, though he needs to work on his accuracy of shooting and passing when half -chances come to him suddenly and when under pressure. Tadic: An inspiration for much of the game, though did fade a little before he was subbed. Davis: Worked hard and contributed positively to the team performance. He is never going to set the world alight with amazing flair play, but he is solid and consistent. Pelle: Better than some have suggested on here. While he didn't always get into enough good positions to score, he worked hard and produced some good knock-downs and was a threat throughout. He is not dissimilar to Lambert and I am sure he will gradually adapt to the English game and once he starts scoring could get a lot of goals for us. Long: Made a nuisance of himself, but it was hard for him to fit into the team having only just joined on Friday. He will I'm sure provide a biggerthreat as he settles into the Southampton way of playing. Isgrove: I thought he did really well in the few minutes he was on the pitch and would like to see him getting more opportunities. For me it was a more accomplished performance than that shown by either Reed or Gallagher when they first got their first team bows. He provided an alternative option and threat that gave Liverpool something else to think about. His crossing needs to become more consistent though - some were good, others less good.

It's amazing how different people's opinions are on here. FWIW, my opinions are: Forster: Looked a bit nervous, especially with handling. Kicking was fairly good and helped to switch defence into attack on a couple of occasions. Didn't really make any significant saves of note. Clyne: Great performance in attack and also provided a great outlet for exchanges of passes in midfield. A little weaker in defence and was slow to respond to Sturridge's movement and lost him for their second goal. For the first goal however, it was Clyne who was left trying to tidy up following Yoshida's failure to deal with Sterling. Yoshida: Better performance than some he has made for Saints, but was caught out of position for their first goal and contributed to indecision in defence. Fonte: Generally a good performance. Bertrand: Better going forward than in defence and combined well with Tadic on a few occasions. Doesn't provide the speed and quality of cross that we had with Shaw, but does seem to be a good passer of the ball. Possible prone to getting caught out of position. Wanyama: Great tackling and short passes. A rock in front of the defence. Schneiderlin: On several occasions he was simply too good for anyone else on the pitch, with his ability to turn out of trouble and lay the ball off faultlessly to others. Koeman clearly likes short passes, so his ability to pick out and complete a longer pass was under-utilised. JWP: Despite the criticisms of some on here, I think this was one of his best performances for Saints. His attempts at goal were audacious and brilliant and he deserved a goal for at least one of them. While he looked a little lightweight at times in the first half, in the second he discovered a confidence to do more with the ball and was a real threat to Liverpool. There were signs that he is beginning to step up the quality of his game, though he needs to work on his accuracy of shooting and passing when half -chances come to him suddenly and when under pressure. Tadic: An inspiration for much of the game, though did fade a little before he was subbed. Davis: Worked hard and contributed positively to the team performance. He is never going to set the world alight with amazing flair play, but he is solid and consistent. Pelle: Better than some have suggested on here. While he didn't always get into enough good positions to score, he worked hard and produced some good knock-downs and was a threat throughout. He is not dissimilar to Lambert and I am sure he will gradually adapt to the English game and once he starts scoring could get a lot of goals for us. Long: Made a nuisance of himself, but it was hard for him to fit into the team having only just joined on Friday. He will I'm sure provide a biggerthreat as he settles into the Southampton way of playing. Isgrove: I thought he did really well in the few minutes he was on the pitch and would like to see him getting more opportunities. For me it was a more accomplished performance than that shown by either Reed or Gallagher when they first got their first team bows. He provided an alternative option and threat that gave Liverpool something else to think about. His crossing needs to become more consistent though - some were good, others less good.

Doubt Nicola will read this, but would echo the sentiments of many in wanting to thank him for all he did for our club and in wishing him a great birthday. Whatever mistakes he made (e.g. getting rid of the stripes and, reportedly, not having great relationships with club staff) he can credited with far more successes and for those I am truly thankful and grateful. Happy Birthday!! (Apologies that I post this somewhat belatedly!)

I'm not sure that you could say that Poch was crap - he did after all achieve far more with the squad than Adkins. However, I do feel that Poch had a significant part to play in what has since happened. If I remember correctly, at the end of last season, Poch was critical of Europa League football and suggested that we don't want to qualify for that as it could/would cost us our 'destiny' of qualification for the Champions League. At about the same time we put in some particularly inept performances - including against Sunderland in both cups (thus eliminating any hope that we could go on to win either tournament thus risking Europa League qualification). Similarly, when Champions League qualification was beyond us but Europa League qualification by virtue of league position still a possibility, our performances were sub-standard. Indeed many have criticised Lovren and Lallana for their poor quality performances at the end of the season. So... here is my contention: 1. The players (or many of them) were convinced by Poch that they were good enough to qualify for Champions League football. 2. Poch also convinced them that qualifying for the Europa League would hinder progress towards CL qualification in 2015. 3. Poch and the players decided they would do everything they could to avoid qualifying for the Europa League. 4. When Poch left they found themselves not only without CL football, but also without even Europa League football, thus precipitating what we see now. For those that like conspiracy theories, you may also like to extend this idea to consider the possibility that Poch decided he would leave as soon as Cortese was ousted and that he put in place a plan to both undermine and unsettle as many of the squad as possible by leaving them believing they are world beaters who should be playing CL football.

Until now I have sat on the fence and been wary of just criticising everything that the board are doing, arguing that while they have made mistakes, I am sure they genuinely want to achieve the best for the club. While I still believe that to be true, what is happening has now convinced me that they are just completely clueless and incompetent and something needs to change quickly. Enough is enough. We cannot sell all of our best players and hope to achieve anything other than a season in which our Premiership safety is seriously at risk and with it the very money that has been raised from these sales. The board are a complete and utter joke - even Rupert Lowe had more sense than this and that is saying a lot as the guy was a complete idiot. I am sad to say it but it may soon be time to draw together the collective fanbase of this club and protest until Krueger and Reed are sacked or sold into slavery, Katherina offers the club for sale and Cortese comes back with another buyer to save this sinking ship. Liebherr, Krueger and Reed OUT!

Considering so many people on here wait with avid interest for every word that Guan shares, I'm surprised that this post has received such little attention. I guess the problem is that everyone just assumed that Guan was talking about this article in the Express: http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/492137/Arsenal-set-to-beat-Liverpool-in-16m-bid-for-Southampton-ace-Calum-Chambers However, Guan clearly stated that it was posted by the Express 'today' (i.e. Sunday) whereas that particular article was actually posted by the Express on Saturday! Besides, an article about Chambers leaving is hardly anything different from what is being reported elsewhere so why on earth would that be a leak from the club? My guess is that Guan was actually referring to this article in the Express which was posted on Sunday: http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/492185/Ronald-Koeman-ready-to-splash-50m-on-new-look-Southampton Now, if that is a leak from the club, then it is far more interesting, if not wholly related to this particular thread (though it does make reference to Chambers, thus potentially confirming that the club may indeed be leaking confirmation that he is on his way). And since I, like Guan, only get two posts (though unlike Guan don't claim in any way to be ITK!) my own personal opinion on the probable sale of Chambers and the state of SFC is much like that expressed by others: * I don't understand why we aren't just saying 'no'. * I believe he will be worth far more in a year or two than he is now. * I believe it further adds to the perception that we are selling the crown jewels of SFC. * I believe it will adversely affect the attitude of potential transfer targets who will be less likely to join what may now appear to be a sinking ship. * I think the communication by the club is shocking. * I think the club is lacking a clear strategy or vision. * I suspect that KL does not have the business prowess of her father - if I remember correctly, didn't the MALI group of companies which her father set up fail under her leadership? However... * I don't for a moment believe the club is selling because it is in massive debt. I am good at maths and know a bit about business. With 80-something million pounds of TV and Premier League revenue for finishing 8th, all of our current debt was wiped out and I don't think our future debts to pay off Ramirez, Osvaldo, etc. are really that much and would be more than covered by our revenue at the end of the coming season. * I also believe/hope that RK is a good manager and will hopefully be able to mould our new squad (if we are to make several new signings) into shape successfully by Christmas at least, if not sooner. Yet... * I do fear that we could become the new Norwich - signing a load of new players who fail to impress and struggling as a result. If we become the new Tottenham - having the same issue but nevertheless, staying around fifth in the table as the previous season - then I would accept that!

I would place them in this order: * Monk * Poyet * Lambert * Bruce * Pardew * Allardyce * Irvine * Redknapp * Pearson * Van Gaal * Koeman * Dyche Beyond that I do not anticipate any other managers will face any chance of being sacked.... * I think Poch will be very successful at Spurs and the fans will eventually get behind him. * I think Rogers will continue to do well at Liverpool, though they will possibly be less successful than last year having lost Suarez. * Mourinho is a cult hero at Chelsea and a great coach for them. * Pellegrini will continue to taste success at City - no-one else gets near to their in-depth squad quality! * Martinez had a great season last year and Everton are a patient club. Even if they are not as successful this time they will be slow at sacking him, unless they descend to being relegation fodder. * Similarly Stoke's successful season last time will ensure Hughes is given plenty of time Stoke, who rarely sack managers. * Finally, Crystal Palace will be delighted with their run-in to the season and will not rush to sack Pulis even if they don't do as well this time out.

Probably a rehash but hope it's true. While I agree this is not the position in which we are weakest, Banega at his best looks like a quality prospect. Hopefully, Koeman may be just the right man to bring out his best again and at £6m he could prove to be a steal. Also, with all the extra cash we have from the Lallana and Shaw deals, we have a great opportunity to create greater strength in depth across the whole squad and this could be just one part of that. With that greater strength in depth we will be better placed to compete in the cup as well as the league - and maybe eventually in European competition too.

Rod Wallace Wizard

Hysterics

I think this is where the confusion is for you lot that like to sing about P*mpey. It's not that we don't hate them - most of us most certainly do. I certainly do myself most of the time, though I can't speak for Steeleye; that's up to him. My hatred of them goes back to living with a skate for a year while at uni. He was a mate until it came to football - but as soon as football came into the equation he was a complete and utter tosser. I have also seen documentaries about that idiot 'Big John' or whatever his name is and the bile that comes out of his mouth is enough to make anyone hate them. However, it is in no small part because of my hatred for P*mpey that I don't like to sing about them. You see, it's not that we don't understand the hatred, it's just that we: 1. Hate P*mpey too much to want to hear them even mentioned. 2. Hate the thought that P*mpey fans are getting enjoyment from the mistaken belief that we are worried that they could beat us if we were to play them now. 3. Love Southampton a million times more than we hate P*mpey. 4. Hate the fact that many fans can't sing about Saints without mentioning P*mpey as though they were still in a position to challenge our status as the 'only one team in Hampshire' (a song that I DO approve of!). 5. Have this sneaking suspicion that some of the anti-Skate songs are actually promoted by P*mpey fans trying to get one over on us (so they would think). 6. Get a greater rush of joy every time Saints win (even if P*mpey happen to win) than we get from them losing when we lose (even if it does give a crumb of comfort, especially when it edges them closer to the bottom of the table). 7. Have the sneaking suspicion that some fans would rather we were in the same division as P*mpey, at whatever level that might be, than that we challenge at the upper end of the Premier League. 8. Feel that singing about P*mpey is a kind of flattery for them, whereas we would rather laugh quietly at them every time they lose and loudly at them every time we win. So, these are a large part of my reasons why I would rather we stopped singing so much about P*mpey and sung far more about Saints.

Who are Pompey? Why sing about them? Are you talking about that nothing of a club that once made the mistake of believing they were the best team in the south but are now an irrelevance in the lower leagues? Who cares about them? I don't understand why people would prefer to sing about them than about Saints. If that's the case for some, then they should go to their matches instead of to watch Saints. Or to summarise: for flip's sake let's sing about Saints not about some tinpot lower league irrelevant lame excuse of a football club!

I notice that Schneiderlin has not returned to training to join up with the squad in Belgium - presumably because France remained in the World Cup until the Quarter Final stage. When would we expect him to be back? I'm guessing next week - from Monday 21 July. Anyone know for certain?

6.06pm

Personally, no matter what is being offered for Lovren I would want to keep him... at least until we can sign two quality centre backs to replace him and improve our defensive options (a left back or two would be good too!) If we did then sell Lovren I would want £25m at least, with extra payouts on top for international appearances, qualification for Champions League, reaching a Cup final, making 50 appearances, etc. and a 25% sell-on clause.

Last year there was a long-ish thread about us potentially signing Banega, but it didn't happen. However, in the past year his fortunes have dipped, so if Koeman has managed him before he might have some influence to get him here. IMO he would be a great addition to the squad.

* I went away on holiday just over a week ago excited about the appointment of Koeman. * I returned today disappointed to learn of the departure of Shaw and expected impending departure of Lallana, having hoped that Koeman's appointment may have averted their departures. I also learn of continuing rumours about other players, which concern me greatly. As I read all about this it worries me that our support is so divided about all these things - surely there is a 'middle way' that all can accept? There have been many things in the last few months about which we are all concerned, but I hope that despite all the changes we will be able to move on from it all to reach even higher than we have done so far. So, what are the things about which we can all agree? Let me suggest a few: * We are all sad to see star players leave the club - especially when they leave to play for other Premier League clubs. * We are all anxious about the time it may take for a new player to settle in at a new club - especially when they come from abroad. * We are all hopeful of Saints having the same success with unheard of foreign signings as some other PL clubs have had (e.g. Newcastle, Wigan, Swansea, etc.) * We are all also hopeful of seeing further new stars emerging from our academy. * We were all disappointed to see Poch leave but on the whole we are hopeful that Koeman will turn out to be a great new manager. * We are all grateful to the Liebherr family for saving the club a few years ago, whether or not we are entirely sure about the decisions that Katharina has made in the past few months. * We were all delighted with how the club performed in the league overall last season and would probably have expected and accepted far less at the start of the season. * We would all love to see Saints win something and to qualify for European competition. So, whether you feel skeptical about everything that is going on or you are one of the eternal optimists determined that everything that is happening will all actually turn out to be the best thing that could have happened to us, let us find some grounds on which we can all agree and let us move forward TOGETHER... supporting Saints all the way with a loud OWTS and COYR(&W!)s. So.. what are your suggestions?

While we are talking songs: Koeman Come On, Koeman Come on, Koeman Come on, Come on! He wants to be in our gang, our gang, our gang! He wants to be in our gang, oh yeeeeeaaahhh! PS Evidently he is better with kids than the writer of that song!)

Don't think anyone has mentioned Shearer yet!! Also Garry Monk started his career at Saints, completing his football apprenticeship with us. To enter the discussion about who counts, I would say that an academy/youth set-up graduate must have played a part in the youth/academy set-up. Therefore, Arsenal could not claim Walcott or Oxo as graduates as they were bought as members of the first team squad. On this basis we would need to be clear which players were part of the academy/youth team set-up and then became first teamers - is this true of Lallana? Scheiderlin? Best? Blackstock? McGoldrick? I would guess that in each case the answer is yes, whereas Schneiderlin, for example, was brought in as a first team player so wouldn't count. One slightly left-field addition to the conversation is Nile Ranger, who was a reject of the Saints academy but later did graduate to play in the Premier League with Newcastle. So, the question is, do you count him? You could ask similar questions about Kevin Phillips too. So, in terms of a list of names: Bale, Walcott, Oxo, Surman, Best, Ranger, Lallana, Shaw, Chambers, Ward-Prowse, Gallagher, Reed, Baird, Blackstock, Bridge, Cranie, Dyer, Oakley, Hughes, Phillips, Shearer, Gazzanigga, LeTissier, Benali, Maddison, Kenna, McGoldrick, Jon Gittens (played a couple of PL games for Middlesbrough!), Tisdale, Lancashire, Moody, Scott McDonald (one appearance in the PL with Southampton!). I'm pretty sure all of those played vfor us at both youth and PL level. I think that is a fairly comprehensive list, but care to add any I have missed. A few players I'm not sure about: Banger - did he play for the first team between 1992 and 1994? Ray Wallace - did he ever play in the PL? Wikipedia suggests that he did but does not evidence it; Isgrove - Was he on the bench at the start of the season? I think he probably doesn't count as even if he was on the bench he has not played in a PL game yet.

OK - until now I've been firmly among those who would like to see Yakin here, though it's now looking quite possible that he could end up at Galatasaray. Realistically, I suspect we will see Koeman appointed some time next week. However, the talk about Tuchel has got me dreaming fantasies!! lol Allow me to explain why...! * Tuchel has also adopted a style of play very similar to MoPo - as has been well-documented on this forum. However that is not all... * Tuchel has worked at Mainz using the "differential training" approach developed by Professor Wolfgang Schöllhorn of Mainz University (see this article for example: http://www.soccerissue.com/2014/06/08/remember-theres-strength-in-uniqueness/) * Mainz have come from nowhere to being a top side in Germany using both of these. Now, this is where it gets especially interesting (or where the happy pills start to take me of into some unknown realm of fantasy!)... * Croatia are also using the "differential training" approach to ready themselves for the World Cup (see http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/11/croatia-niko-kovac-park-bus-brazil-world-cup-2014) * Dejan Lovren plays for Croatia, but rumours have today surfaced suggesting that he has handed in a transfer request... (seeing where this is going yet?!) What if... * Croatia stun the world by beating Brazil tomorrow and go on to have a blistering World Cup... * Dejan Lovren finds himself falling in love with the "differential training" method. * Southampton appoint Tuchel... Putting it all-together.... might this result in the following fantasy-dream scenario... * Lovren is so excited by Tuchel's appointment (and what that will mean in terms of style of play and coaching methods) that he withdraws the rumoured transfer request and * Lallana and Shaw become convinced by both Lovren and Tuchel that they should stay and * Saints with Tuchel as our manager convince some great, up-and-coming, talented players to sign for us and * We end up finishing in the top 4 next season, above both Liverpool and United! Anyone care to dream the dream with me?!!! lol

If we went for something like that I would be very happy - this would be a 'proper' Saints kit. If they go with another all red kit I will save my money for the third season in a row. I suppose in that sense it's win-win for me either way!

Are we selling him? Source?