SaintJackoInHurworth

* I went away on holiday just over a week ago excited about the appointment of Koeman. * I returned today disappointed to learn of the departure of Shaw and expected impending departure of Lallana, having hoped that Koeman's appointment may have averted their departures. I also learn of continuing rumours about other players, which concern me greatly. As I read all about this it worries me that our support is so divided about all these things - surely there is a 'middle way' that all can accept? There have been many things in the last few months about which we are all concerned, but I hope that despite all the changes we will be able to move on from it all to reach even higher than we have done so far. So, what are the things about which we can all agree? Let me suggest a few: * We are all sad to see star players leave the club - especially when they leave to play for other Premier League clubs. * We are all anxious about the time it may take for a new player to settle in at a new club - especially when they come from abroad. * We are all hopeful of Saints having the same success with unheard of foreign signings as some other PL clubs have had (e.g. Newcastle, Wigan, Swansea, etc.) * We are all also hopeful of seeing further new stars emerging from our academy. * We were all disappointed to see Poch leave but on the whole we are hopeful that Koeman will turn out to be a great new manager. * We are all grateful to the Liebherr family for saving the club a few years ago, whether or not we are entirely sure about the decisions that Katharina has made in the past few months. * We were all delighted with how the club performed in the league overall last season and would probably have expected and accepted far less at the start of the season. * We would all love to see Saints win something and to qualify for European competition. So, whether you feel skeptical about everything that is going on or you are one of the eternal optimists determined that everything that is happening will all actually turn out to be the best thing that could have happened to us, let us find some grounds on which we can all agree and let us move forward TOGETHER... supporting Saints all the way with a loud OWTS and COYR(&W!)s. So.. what are your suggestions?

While we are talking songs: Koeman Come On, Koeman Come on, Koeman Come on, Come on! He wants to be in our gang, our gang, our gang! He wants to be in our gang, oh yeeeeeaaahhh! PS Evidently he is better with kids than the writer of that song!)

Don't think anyone has mentioned Shearer yet!! Also Garry Monk started his career at Saints, completing his football apprenticeship with us. To enter the discussion about who counts, I would say that an academy/youth set-up graduate must have played a part in the youth/academy set-up. Therefore, Arsenal could not claim Walcott or Oxo as graduates as they were bought as members of the first team squad. On this basis we would need to be clear which players were part of the academy/youth team set-up and then became first teamers - is this true of Lallana? Scheiderlin? Best? Blackstock? McGoldrick? I would guess that in each case the answer is yes, whereas Schneiderlin, for example, was brought in as a first team player so wouldn't count. One slightly left-field addition to the conversation is Nile Ranger, who was a reject of the Saints academy but later did graduate to play in the Premier League with Newcastle. So, the question is, do you count him? You could ask similar questions about Kevin Phillips too. So, in terms of a list of names: Bale, Walcott, Oxo, Surman, Best, Ranger, Lallana, Shaw, Chambers, Ward-Prowse, Gallagher, Reed, Baird, Blackstock, Bridge, Cranie, Dyer, Oakley, Hughes, Phillips, Shearer, Gazzanigga, LeTissier, Benali, Maddison, Kenna, McGoldrick, Jon Gittens (played a couple of PL games for Middlesbrough!), Tisdale, Lancashire, Moody, Scott McDonald (one appearance in the PL with Southampton!). I'm pretty sure all of those played vfor us at both youth and PL level. I think that is a fairly comprehensive list, but care to add any I have missed. A few players I'm not sure about: Banger - did he play for the first team between 1992 and 1994? Ray Wallace - did he ever play in the PL? Wikipedia suggests that he did but does not evidence it; Isgrove - Was he on the bench at the start of the season? I think he probably doesn't count as even if he was on the bench he has not played in a PL game yet.

OK - until now I've been firmly among those who would like to see Yakin here, though it's now looking quite possible that he could end up at Galatasaray. Realistically, I suspect we will see Koeman appointed some time next week. However, the talk about Tuchel has got me dreaming fantasies!! lol Allow me to explain why...! * Tuchel has also adopted a style of play very similar to MoPo - as has been well-documented on this forum. However that is not all... * Tuchel has worked at Mainz using the "differential training" approach developed by Professor Wolfgang Schöllhorn of Mainz University (see this article for example: http://www.soccerissue.com/2014/06/08/remember-theres-strength-in-uniqueness/) * Mainz have come from nowhere to being a top side in Germany using both of these. Now, this is where it gets especially interesting (or where the happy pills start to take me of into some unknown realm of fantasy!)... * Croatia are also using the "differential training" approach to ready themselves for the World Cup (see http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/11/croatia-niko-kovac-park-bus-brazil-world-cup-2014) * Dejan Lovren plays for Croatia, but rumours have today surfaced suggesting that he has handed in a transfer request... (seeing where this is going yet?!) What if... * Croatia stun the world by beating Brazil tomorrow and go on to have a blistering World Cup... * Dejan Lovren finds himself falling in love with the "differential training" method. * Southampton appoint Tuchel... Putting it all-together.... might this result in the following fantasy-dream scenario... * Lovren is so excited by Tuchel's appointment (and what that will mean in terms of style of play and coaching methods) that he withdraws the rumoured transfer request and * Lallana and Shaw become convinced by both Lovren and Tuchel that they should stay and * Saints with Tuchel as our manager convince some great, up-and-coming, talented players to sign for us and * We end up finishing in the top 4 next season, above both Liverpool and United! Anyone care to dream the dream with me?!!! lol

If we went for something like that I would be very happy - this would be a 'proper' Saints kit. If they go with another all red kit I will save my money for the third season in a row. I suppose in that sense it's win-win for me either way!

Are we selling him? Source?

Thought I'd resurrect this old thread as if Lallana left I think Banega would be exactly the quality of player we should be looking at. Even if Lallana stays, I think Banega could add an extra dimension to the squad. However, it looks like Sunderland could be about to sign him, which is quite a shock! Surely if they can afford him, we should be throwing in some interested remarks to agents, etc. to make sure he doesn't sign for them before we have appointed a new manager just in case the new manager also thinks he is the sort of player we should sign?!! Links here: http://talksport.com/football/sunderland-closing-ps8m-deal-valencia-midfielder-14060293943#pCYDIK29kOTp0UXs.99 PS Surprised to note that he didn't make the Argentina squad - I wonder if he now regrets that he didn't sign for us last year!

I guess I find myself drawn both ways in the debates about our board. However, I'm an optimist when all's said and done and hope that while there may have been some mistakes made by Krueger, Reed and KL they still have chance to turn it all around. As for the issue of money, if I understand it correctly we are currently due to pay about £25 in transfer fees and about the same for the training ground developments. However we are also receiving about £80m in payments as our portion of the TV deal money and other reward money. Together with money anticipated next year that means that £50m is well within our means if payments are scheduled correctly. Sent from my C1505 using Tapatalk

You've all forgotten about our star striker Mayuka! The line-up must therefore be: ........................Boruc......................... Chambers....Fonte....Yoshida....Targett ..............JWP..............Cork.............. ........Ramirez..................Davis.......... ..............Gallagher....Mayuka............. I assume that Rodriguez will either still be injured or will be signed by Sunderland or Stoke.

I think the big difference is that Cortese and Poch wanted to qualify for the CL, avoiding if possible the Europa League. My big frustration with Poch last season was that as soon as it became clear we could not qualify for the CL, he (and by extension the side) lost interest and our form took a major dip. He even came out in the media if I remember correctly and stated that he did not want to participate in the Europa League. It seemed this also meant that he didn't want us to qualify by reaching the FA Cup final, with the result that we were woeful against Sunderland in the cup match (much to my horror as I was at the match!) I hope we still desire to eventually qualify for the Champions League, but will now be prepared to make qualification for the Europa League as a stepping stone to this. We obviously need to be realistic that it is a big step to qualify for the Champions League, but we also need to recognise the amazing success of both FC Basel and Atletico Madrid, which has shown that not only can a small club qualify for a tournament like that, but it can do very well in it with the right commitment.

OK, we are all disappointed to see Pochettino leave, but I thought it would be interesting to look at it from a different perspective. Basically, it could be argued that since we cam under Liebherr ownership each manager we have had has been better than their predecessor (although some may feel there is a case for saying that Pardew was better than Adkins and of course he was only the second manager in our history to lead us to silverware!) So... Pardew steadied the ship after liquidation and led us to win the Football League Trophy, but he was unable to get us promoted and while under his leadership we played great attacking football, we were defensively poor and woefully inconsistent - especially at home. Adkins, unlike Pardew was able to get us promoted, both from League 1 and the Championship, but, arguably, he never really got the best from some of the players in his care and we struggled for consistency at times - especially in the EPL. He did, however, build a great unity among the squad and was able to even get some of our more prima-donna types to want to play for us (e.g. Puncheon). Poch was able to take it to the next level, developing an ethos that brought the best out of the players and demonstrating that some of those players are very good. He was particularly good (most of the time) at giving opportunities to younger players to find their way into the first team if good enough. He was not so good at dealing with discord and with prima-donnas (e.g. Osvaldo, Puncheon, Ramirez, etc.) He was also less than committed to getting Saints to win in the cup competitions and in driving them on to qualify for the Europa Cup and sometimes allowed complacency to slip in when playing lesser opposition. If that has been our progress over the past few years, then what if we could now get a manager who will take us to another new level? Perhaps someone who can maintain the same winning ethos, but will also be committed to winning at every opportunity - so that we try to win the cups and we are prepared to play in the Europa Cup if we cannot qualify for the champions league? I don't intend to analyse the potential candidates for the job as that is being hotly discussed elsewhere, but I hope that we can push on to the next level whoever we appoint. Now is the time for Katharina, Les Reed and Ralph Krueger to show their ambition for the club. Nice words from Krueger are fine, but the suspicion that Poch has left because of a lack of ambition from the club and a lack of commitment to keeping our best players will not go away until a good manager is signed and those players (or most of them at least) are retained. My hope is that we can continue the trend that Cortese began in terms of employing an increasingly high standard of manager. COYR!

I'm a bit surprised at some of the opinions on here - evidently Malky Mackay is now a rubbish manager despite having managed to take a poor Cardiff team to mid-table obscurity until the Cardiff club owner decided to scupper things. I'm not saying he is the right man for Saints if Poch goes, but who knows? He could prove to be an inspired choice if he were appointed. I am also surprised at the number of people keen on Laudrup - he hardly achieved much at Swansea, taking them down from showing signs of establishing themselves as an upper mid-table club to becoming a club at risk of relegation. As for De Boer, I always a little wary of the big name managers and if he is not good enough for Spurs, perhaps he is not good enough for us?! Nevertheless, I agree that a big name manager like that could convince some of our players to stay.

I'm actually quite shocked at the response to this post. Don't shoot me... yet!! Firstly, I don't agree with Richmond that you can at his stage round on Liebherr and criticise her as he has done. As people have pointed out there are many good things for which we can express major gratitude to the Liebherr family. Now is the time for watching, waiting and hoping, not rash petulance. Nevertheless, there are many here criticising Redmond who, if they are honest, have made more than their fair share of rash petulant criticisms of the club. Secondly, I can understand to some degree Richmond's frustration at the thought that just as things were looking really very good we may have lost the manager that has put us into such a great position as we now find ourselves (though much credit has got to go to many others including our academy coaches). I challenge anyone to honestly say they aren't wondering whether if Cortese were still here, Poch wouldn't even be talking to Spurs (with the exception of the ITKers who always know everything and should be worshipped for their incredible insight). In short, though Redmond may have spoken far too rashly, I'm sure we ALL feel very saddened at the likelihood that Poch will leave and a little frustrated that the unbelievable dream that we have been having could be under threat - the dream that we maybe had an owner, director and manager who all shared the fans aspirations; the dream that maybe, just maybe, we culd, like Atletico Madrid in Spain, rise up to challenge the elite of English football. For that reason, I'm suggesting that maybe we can cut the guy a bit of slack and let's wait and see what happens and hope and pray that this Krueger guy will have more of a clue about football than we suspect and that the dream might not be over - that Katherina may actually be making right decisions, that Cortese may have been pushing the club to get somewhere far faster than was realistic and that those in charge of OUR club do still have aspirations to achieve more than mid-table mediocrity. In short, I am saying that Redmond has been rash in saying what he has said at this time, but such rashness is perhaps the result of an aspiration that I hope we all share - that Southampton FC will continue to push onwards and upwards and to become a force to be reckoned with in English football. Now is neither the time for rash statements, but nor is it the time to round on a fellow fan who we don't know and give him hell.

Bloo - I think you need to understand who you are asking to support your petition and give it time. I also think you could have been more careful with the name of your petition and the way you presented it. Let me explain... 1. You have asked us to sign a petition entitled 'alwaysbeblue'. As a club that plays in red you are kind of asking us to sell our souls in the way that Vincent Tan has sold your souls. If it doesn't work for you, why expect us to do something very similar?! 2. To add to this you also have to understand that Southampton FC has one of the most bitter local rivalries in sport with a hatred for our near neighbours P*mpey - a team that emphasises itself as a club that play in blue. So not only are you asking us to declare that red is bad, but you also want us to sign to say that blue is better! That is not just selling our souls but downright pimping them! 3. You launched your petition to us at 8pm and then at 10pm, after only two hours, you decided that you have given us long enough to read and respond to it and react to a few who made critical comments, in a completely ungracious manner, completely undermining any desire you may have to reach out to Saints fans for our support. 4. You then proceed to show complete ignorance of the fact that Southampton FC went into administration a few years ago and yet show no empathy for the predicament we have faced in recent years and our own frustrations about playing in the 'wrong colours'. So let me make some suggestions.. 1. Change the name/wording of the petition to something like 'Let fans of Cardiff City support their team fully by playing in their traditional colours.' Most Saints fans will identify with that wording far more readily. 2. Allow time for Saints fans to respond. This should be at least a day if not several. 'Bump' the thread occasionally to keep it current. I hope this helps and that it yields a much better response than you have had so far.

Forgot to say... if you want some names of players I'd love to see us sign, I'd have to say Astori and Banega, though I don't think central midfield is a priority. Nevertheless, Banega seems like an awesome player, so would love to see us sign him if we could afford him plus a centre back and striker, allowing for the sale or loaning out of Osvaldo and others.

Not quite sure why so many people want to see us release Isgrove! He was supposed to have been excellent for us in close-season last year. While he may not have had the experience we would have hoped for while out on loan, I could see him coming back and being nurtured back to confidence and then bursting onto the scene next season. Of course though, at the same time, he is getting to an age where he does need to start to make that step up to the first team. As for a budget of £35M, I think that is possibly a little optimistic in the light of the extra costs for our training ground. I would think we would be more likely to have a budget up to £25m including costs of wages. I would expect us to release Guly and to sell Osvaldo. As for Ramirez, that remains to be seen, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave, though hope he will stay and be phenomenal for us next season! I would like to see us buying a decent centre back, a striker to replace Osvaldo and either a keeper or reserve keeper. I would also like to see us bringing in some players with development potential where there are gaps in our academy ranks. So, for example, if Turnbull and Stephens fail to step up to the next level, then we may need some other young centre backs with potential (though we also have Mugabe and McCarthy, so maybe we are ok for the moment in terms of potential future centre-backs).

OK - it could well be all but mathematically confirmed tonight that we will finish eighth, if Newcastle lose to Arsenal. It would leave a situation where we would have to lose every remaining game 6-0 and Newcastle to win every game 6-0 for them to then finish above us. So what does this mean for us in practice? We have already been told that we will have our biggest ever Premier League points tally, but that aside what else will it mean for us? * What will be the financial payout for finishing eighth? * With Man United only finishing one place higher, what impact might this have upon our ability to hold on to our best players? * What benefits might it have in terms of our ability to attract signings? * It places us as the top team outside of the top seven 'big clubs', so as the 'best of the rest' how might this affect how other teams approach games against us in future? * Might there be any other implications whether positive or negative in finishing eighth?

Two great posts there - that first post sums it up for me - and the second could well confirm what a shrewd move it is in Stephen's case. I hope that Isgrove will face similar success during his loan spell to that which Stephens has already achieved in his first game on loan. I have long since been disappointed that we have not used him this season, following his brilliant displays in pre-season. My only disappointment with the move to loan out these players is that, if we are not planning to try to qualify for the Europa League, then why couldn't we have given them the chance to play for our first team? Indeed, why didn't either get to play against Sunderland in the cup? Neither was even on the bench for that match! Was there a fear that if they achieve too much too early we could be faced with other sides snooping around them before they get established in our first team? Anyway, I hope that they will both be successful and that next season we will see them both competing for a first team place!

So... Spurs did indeed lose! As I said, then, a win against them could well put us in contention for sixth place behind Everton (who have got to be favourites for fifth now), especially following Man Utd's defeat to Liverpool. Let's not forget too that Man Utd have a tricky fixture at home to Man City to look forward to a week on Tuesday. Not that I'm saying we would be successful in this, but it could, amazingly, put us right back in the mix! If we really did want to qualify for Europa League then the chance could be there! However, having seen both the woeful performances against Sunderland in the cups and in the light of Pochettino's derogatory comments about the Europa League, it seems clear to me that the highest he thinks we should be aiming for is seventh (now that it is clear that at least one of the FA Cup finalists will not be a top six team). With that in mind, I am half expecting another woeful performance in this match. Lose this and we can be fairly confident of finishing no higher than seventh and Poch will be happy. Of course, if Poch has made up his mind that he won't be here next season or if Krueger or Liebherr have managed to convince him that getting European experience (perhaps for our younger development players?) might be worthwhile, then maybe we will make an effort.. It will be interesting to see.

Ridiculously, if Spurs lose tomorrow and we win this we will find ourselves again considering the possibility of European qualification as we would then be only 5 points behind them and thus with the chance of competing for sixth place behind Everton in fifth. For that reason I suspect we will do no more than draw this game as Poch has made it clear he doesn't want to play in the Europa League. Assuming, of course, that Poch does want to be with us still next season!

Surprised that this hasn't been commented upon by anyone else, but has anyone else had the thought that maybe what happened with Pardew headbutting that Hull player may hold some clues as to why we sacked him? He clearly has anger management issues and I find myself wondering if it was an issue of failing to control his temper that led to us sacking him. Just a thought....!

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but if it is looking like Fabio Quagliarella could be leaving Juventus in the wake of Osvaldo's arrival, might we be attempting a swap deal? Just a thought!!

This... plus the shocking defending... plus a few scuffed shots that trickled in... plus as someone else mentioned he looks a bit overweight. Only towards the end of the video clip is there anything that could be described as good quality forward play. I think the YouTube videos for Ramirez, Osvaldo, Skacel and Banega were all better than this! Is he better than Bill Sharp, Lee Barnard, Jason Puncheon, Guly and Jonathan Forte? He might be better than one of those, but I'm not convinced about the others on the weight of that video!

I hope we do sign a centre back - Hooiveld and Yoshida have been rubbish whenever they have played for us this season and we need players who are good enough to play well whether they are first choice or have to bide their time on the bench for a while. Fonte on the other hand has raised his game every season since we signed him back when we were in League 1. If we signed a quality player to play alongside Lovren, then Fonte would be good backup. As for a keeper, Boruc and Davis are ok for the moment - it's just a shame that both got injured at the same time. Nevertheless, I wouldn't complain if we were able to sign someone better. In midfield we have a lot of players and many of them are good players or players with great potential. Nevertheless, we have been unlucky with injuries recently and that has demonstrated that a midfielder who can provide both cover in front of the defence and some attacking intent would be a good addition. For that reason, I still think Banega would be a great addition. He would give us a lot more flexibility in terms of who we play, playing alongside just about any of our other attacking players. Finally, I think it would be good to see us giving some thought to the development of the next lot of young talent during the second half of the season. In particular, Lloyd Isgrove had a great pre-season and it would be great to see him get a match at some stage this season.

OK - back from the match a while ago, so here's some thoughts... * Sunderland were woeful - if they don't improve significantly they will be relegated. * Great debut performance by Harrison Reed - one of our best players on the night - made important tackles on a number of occasions. * Danny Fox cannot defend to save his life and should never be played as a full back again - by all means play him as a winger, but not as a full back. Both goals came as a result of his failure to pick up Sunderland's player beyond the far post on our left where he should have been defending. * Gaston Ramirez is a player of quality but is completely lacking in sharpness and will to fight for his place in the first team. I have been a big fan of his ever since we signed him, but tonight I saw a player that was not up for it and a player who tries to guess what his fellow players might do instead of being able to pick out that defence splitting pass to one of our players. Sadly, I think his future may lie elsewhere. * In just the few moments he had on the pitch, Lallana showed he is getting back to his best - he was the most quality player on the pitch for those few minutes. * We lack width & pace - especially without Clyne and Shaw. I find it startling that we let Puncheon go out on loan. He could have made a significant difference tonight. * I am concerned that Rodriguez may never achieve his full potential. He has a lot of improving still to do and his rate of improvement is not what I would expect of a player playing regularly in the Premier League. * It was great to blood a couple of youngsters tonight in Reed and Gallagher, but if Pochettino had decided to play with a reserve squad and develop youngsters then I would have liked to have seen a couple of others maybe also given their chance - Matt Targett and Lloyd Isgrove in particular. That having been said maybe too many youngsters would have been a difficult challenge for the players. Overall, we did not deserve to lose the match as we bossed possession (despite what some statistics seem to be suggesting!) and Sunderland were woeful. If we had not had Fox at left back we may not have conceded either of those goals and could have won.