sadoldgit

Yep, things have been really bad since The Don left.

I am not saying that you are wrong about van Dijk but we were linked with him for a very long time before he finally signed for us and I don't recall him ever been linked with Spurs. How do you know that they would have been in for him if they didn't have Alderweireld?

You miss my point yet again. Both are forms of terrorism visited on innocent people. If this had been carried out by Mohammed instead of Devin the usual suspects would be all over it. There is greater outrage over Muslims commuting these types of crimes. Why do you think that is? Is is exactly the same point I was making about the sexual assaults in Cologne. It happens all the time here and those who have an issue with Muslims/immigrants don’t give it a second thought. As soon as it is done by groups that are not acceptable to some, it all kicks off. You yourself continue to make pathetic jokes about the things that go on in our own towns and cities on a regular basis. It is called double standards. You supported Katie Hopkins when she said Muslims weren’t doing enough to distance themselves from the extremists. Remember? You even went to great lengths to take the thread off in an irelevant direction as to whether she was a Christian or not. You spend an awful lot of time worrying about Muslims and Islam but it isn’t until you are picked up on your bias that you start talking about the problems within our own society.

No you are right, it is far worse and should be treated as such.

More butchery of their own by natural Americans and yet no call for a change in gun laws (or any action in response) by the POTUS yet every time their is a Muslim terrorist attack he calls for tighter immigration controls. At what point will he understand that there is a greater threat from the Yanks themselves? Perhaps hypo can explain the difference for us?

LOL, you are even using Shurlock's word now, pal. You really are a card. Try standing on your own two feet for a change instead of following the likes of Shurlock and CB Fry around. Oh, and I am not saying that every religion is the same, I don't know where you got that from. You used to accuse me of making things up. Once again, you should change your name to Hypocrite.

I am berating people who cant deal with us losing matches or playing poorly to the extent that they want the manager out after 5 minutes. I have been a Saints fan since 1966 and have sat through many turgid performances. I have also sat through some wonderful performances. The difference is I don't expect us to be wonderful all the time. MP might turn out to be really good for us or he might not. How anyone can decide that he is crap after 10 matches is ridiculous. If that is being self righteous sobeit. I just think it is using some common sense.

Sucking up to Shurlock like you used to suck up to CB Fry now eh? Funny how you gravitate towards the trolls. You really need to grow up mate. There are a number of posters on here who have prompted many decent posters to leave this site. You are one of them. Still haven't found the backbone to post on Sotonians again I see. Is that because you cant get away there with what you get away with here?

I think that most people would rather be in New York than Maidstone. What is your point exactly?

The world would be a better place without murders, rapists and thieves. Considering most Muslims are peaceful and don't do any harm I cant see why you would want rid of them. They are no worse than Catholics, Protestants or any other followers of religion. Tolerance towards immigrants has nothing to do with Premiership players and Clasie as well you know. Every culture in the world has become what it is through assimilation. Assimilation is a two way street.

Happy little soul aren't you. And it is a bit rich to have a go about me being self righteous when you spend most of your time trying to belittle posters on here. Take a look in the mirror, pal.

And there we have it. A faceless nothing club like WBA and Stoke. I expect their supporters would say exactly the same about the mighty SFC. We are no different to those clubs and probably never will be despite what the likes of Cortese says in the past and Reed says now. Manchester City are a firm top six club and if there is. Breakaway league in Europe, they will be part of it. I would say that makes them a big club. Do you really think the tv companies will be creaming themselves over SFC ever getting there? In this day and age there is nothing wrong with aspiring to be best of the rest and trying to win a cup.

Despite having found a new word in "conflate", you clearly are still having problems with "hyperbole." I did ask you to go and look it up some time ago but it seems to decided not to heed my advice. I'll give you a hand (once again). No one is really expecting us to play like Barcelona, the point is a great many posters seem to think that we should be up there battling it out with the top 6 year in year out when the reality is that we are a medium sized club that can only really compete with other medium sized clubs in the hope to be best of the rest. Sometimes we will achieve that but often, not. I don't know where this sense of entitlement comes from but certainly where we were 7 years ago is extremely relevant because it tells us who we are - a medium sized club who, like all medium sized clubs (go check out the Championship and look at the clubs there) there will be times when most other medium sized clubs do better than us. We have had poor results and poor performances many times over the last 7 years too. Even if we turn things round this season and poor spell is always round the corner. Yet many posters seem to think that there is an expectancy for us not only to win, but to play scintillating football too, week in week out. The reason that people use clichés is because it sums up the point perfectly well. We are who were are, not what some deluded people think we are. Some very boring teams have won the Premiership. Do you think that there fans were bothered that the football was crap? It is all about staying up by whatever means you can. Clichés remind us that it is easy to end up in a downward spiral and that sometimes mid table mediocrity is preferable than a journey to Division 1. So when people say that others expect us to play like Barcelona, they are simply making the point that those supporters should remember who we are and what our resources are. Now go look up "hyperbole" there's a good chap.

And written without any hint of irony whatsoever. Duckie, the 70’s called and want their stereotypical white male back.

So you are saying that all 1.8 billion Muslims in the world act like that? The whole point of the programme was to show people like you that not all Muslims behave in the way you think that they do. The point seems to have passed you by.

Here we go again though VG. You say that you hear Muslim adolescents saying the only good Jew is a dead Jew but that comment isn't the sole preserve of Muslims is it? There are anti-Semites everywhere and from all different backgrounds. You also say that many are discriminated against and then mention that many behave as victims of society, it would seem with some justification then. You mention the concerns that people have about some Muslims and, of course, they are justified. But out of 1.8 billion Muslims, or whatever the current number is, do you really believe that the vast majority support ISIS, are homophobic, want all Jews dead etc. You say that you think immigration should be stopped. Perhaps, if more of these immigrants come to live in Western societies they would, in time, become more liberal and grow to see their religion in a different way? I'll also ask a question. why should the onus just be on immigrants to assimilate into a new society and why should they change their habits just to fit it? Tolerance is a two way thing. In an ideal world we should try and meet halfway, but that isn't always possible. Perhaps we should stop being so sensitive about those who want to wear a burqa for example. Immigration has been going on from the beginning of time, for better or worse. The world is one big melting pot, and, mostly, all the better for it. Turning Muslims into the lepers of the world isn't the answer, just as it wasn't with the Jews in the 30s and 40s. Where it isn't working, we all need to work harder to improve the situation, not just the Muslims.

My Week As A Muslim - Best quote from Katie Freeman. "They are normal people like me." Back to hypo. Well done, you have discovered a new word. Conflate. Your mistake was to over use it though. Another trap you have fallen into (yet again) is the old I know people who are Muslims and you don't therefore your opinion somehow is more valid. I'll say again. if you don't know any Saints players does that invalidate your view of the team and club? You tell us that your wife isn't a practicing Muslim, so not a Muslim then. Early on in this thread there were many attacks on non extreme Muslims and you let them go. I think I recall at one point you saying that there weren't any racists on this thread. At least we have put that one to bed. You supported that bastion of decency Katie Hopkins when she came out and said "normal" Muslims should be doing more to distance themselves from the extremists and when I supported them you were all over me like a rash. As someone who loves Muslims, you have not done a very good job of supporting those you say you love. Having been lumped in with Sour Mash you are now making an effort to disassociate yourself from him. It is a shame you didn't do that at the beginning. But then coming out and saying that you agree with me doesn't work with you does it. You always have to take an opposing position no matter what we debate. Here is another new C word for you. Contrary.

You raise valid points VG and I agree with you that that kind of behaviour is not acceptable. I did qualify my position by saying that I don't have a problem with those who live in harmony with others and clearly there are those who do not. It isn't just the preserve of some Muslims though. You will find levels of anti social behaviour where ever you go in the world. There are some people in every society that behave in ways that are abhorrent to decent, civilised people. Sadly for their religion, there are Muslims who give their beliefs a bad name but is that down to Islam or just the fact that even if they weren't Muslims they have a tendency to behave like arseholes? The issue for me is that humans are still basically tribal in nature and the problems we face are down to the need we feel to group ourselves together against other groups - be they people of a different religion, supporting a different football team, a different political party, speaking a different language etc etc. You see it on here all the time - the so called happy clappers against the bed wetters! Islam is not the problem per se. Human beings are.

If you had read my post correctly (and previous posts) you would know that your view of your wife's position on Islam is not the only reason that I believe you have a problem with Muslims. I have based my opinion on your numerous posts on this thread and the way in which you have let certain things slide whilst attacking those who have supported non-extremist Muslims. Your "thankfully" comment just confirmed what I already thought. Oh, and by the way. If you love someone enough to marry them, why would it be an issue whether they practised any religion or not? I agree that Islamophobia isn't an ideal word. It is, however, the only one we have to describe those with a dislike or hatred of Muslims, so it will have to do.

I don't have a problem with those who want to follow any religion so long as they are law abiding and peaceful. I don't see any problem with Islam in Europe just as I don't see any problem with Christianity. There are conflicts in both religions with modern day liberalism but there have been conflicts with religious dogma going back centuries so I cant see that changing. The issue we face at the moment is the divide between those who are using Islam to forward their own agenda and those who just want to get on with their lives peacefully. The rising level of hate crime and some of the views posted on chat forums on the Internet show just how intolerance festers and grows where there are them and us cultures. As a non religious person I struggle with any concept of faith, but I don't think that anyone has the right to tell someone else how to think and what to believe if they are not doing any harm and until the extremists on all sides stop fuelling the fire, there will be no harmonious co-existence. That is what irritates me so much on this thread. The constant nit picking at those who are different just serves to further the cause of those who thrive on division and hatred. Decrying terrorist activities or homophobia when linked to a religion is one thing, damning all those who follow that religion peacefully and respectfully of others another. The problems in Europe or Western civilisation aren't down to Muslim or immigrants. They are down to people who cannot live lawfully and peacefully together. These people come in all shapes, sizes, colours and backgrounds yet certain people fixate on one kind and ignore the wider issues.

Yes you do. You don't remember saying thankfully your wife wasn't a practicing Muslim? Clearly, if you didn't have a problem with Muslims it wouldn't have been an issue. You also bang on about how they are not doing enough to distance themselves from terrorists (despite the terrorist acts having nothing to do with them). You have similar views to Sour Mash, albeit less extreme. If you cant see that (go back and read your own posts here) then you are the foolish one. I asked you several times why you weren't calling him on his Islamophobic posts earlier in this thread and it soon became apparent that you shared many of his views. You chose to attack those who were supporting the non extreme Muslims, so lets not pretend that you don't have anything against them.

Deflection? You have an issue with Muslims. My point is that the issue is wider than one religious group. Mankind is the problem, not Muslims. This is not deflection. It is common sense. People like you and Sour Mash seem to think that the problems will all go away if Muslims did not exist. No they wouldn't. People will continue to find reasons to murder, rape and steal from each other. By banging on about one specific group you completely miss the point. No one is trying to pretend that there isn't an issue with terrorists or some interpretations of this religion, but most people understand that the problem is more widespread than issues with one religion. You focus on the actions of a minority of one type of people whist the rest carry out atrocities on a daily basis that don't seem to bother you in the least. So much so that when issues in our own society are brought to your attention you turn it into a joke. Simply put, we treat each other far worse on a daily basis than extreme Muslims do. Deflection to you because all you are interested in, like Sour Mash, is bashing all Muslims.

How do you know he won’t? He has only been here a short while.

Nope. not at all. Why would you say that? I'm not frightened of change. I just don't believe that you should change everything every 5 minutes if it doesn't work at that particular time. You on the other hand seem to have no time for anyone at management level at the club. Frightened of stability?

Oh dear Whelk. You were quick to give me grief about mentioning the Nazis on the terrorism thread yet you manage to shoe horn a mention about them in a thread where someone is going through a mid life crisis in his twenties! As our American friends would say, "Way to go."