sadoldgit

FTF, I don't know if you will read this but I just wanted to let you know that although I don't usually send PMs I have just spent half an hour on a message to you here only to discover that you don't accept PMs! Argh! I wanted to respond to your comments in greater depth but not through this thread so I'll leave it there. Just wanted you to know that I have given more thoughts to your comments and had a better thought out response that is now somewhere in the ether.

Sorry Whelk but I really do not think that I have been ripped apart. If that makes me stupid and an idiot then so be it. I certainly am stupid and an idiot to spend so much time on here but we all have our weaknesses. Sadly all to often what starts off as a good subject for a discussion descends into a petty bickering session. The same has happened here and it is difficult to avoid it. I have tried by putting a few of the Usual Suspects on ignore and that helps after a fashion. If you really think I am stupid because I believe the vast majority of Muslims to be peaceful folk that is your right. If you think I am stupid to think that the issue is more about the way Man behaves towards his fellow Man rather than a religion then that is your right. If you think I am stupid for continuing to try and put my point across on a forum like this then yes, I would have to agree with you!

songs

I don't see it as a sport but if you want to see it that way that's fine. I am not interested in pulling in punters as you put it. As for other forums the only other forum I post on is the one you are on but haven't had the balls to challenge me on.

Ripped apart? Really?

The point is that Islam doesn't have the monopoly on violence.

apocolypse

And this is precisely the problem. Trying to talk about any kind of balanced response to what is going on eventually brings out the "apologist" remarks which is a bit of a give away. No one here is trying to defend the actions of terrorists whatever flag they say they are fighting under.

You say that Islamists are extremists Verbal, but are you saying that they are all terrorists? I am saying that the vast majority of those who follow the faith of Islam are peaceful and wish to live peacefully with the rest of us. If some of the others agree with me, why do they keep arguing?

Others have highlighted episodes of less than Godlike behaviour by Christians but just to helped our Caped brother so he doesn't have to keep going back to the Crusades, here is a list of more recent events:- Central African Republic Genocide 2012 to present - ethnic cleansing of Muslims by Christians Bosnian Genocide 1992-95 - Orthadox Bosnian Serbs ethic cleansing against Bosnian Muslims The Holocaust 1933-42 -Christians ethnic cleansing of Jews in Europe The Progroms 1881-1884, 1903-1906, 1917-1921 - a series of violent attacks carried out by Christians in Russia against the Jews American slavery 1619-1865 - Christians enslaving Africans Native American Cultural Cleansing 1500s to 1800s - Christians killing natives of North and South America who were referred to as "devils" and "heathens" Plenty to be getting on with there.....

I think that your rubber helmet must be caused your brain a bit of pressure Caped Crusader. If you are talking about being an apologist for peaceful Muslims, why is that an issue? But while we are at it would you say that the US policy in the Middle East has made the situation better or worse? Would you say that no innocent Muslims have ever been killed in attacks? Would you blame everyone in a religion just because a minority use their religion as an excuse to kill people? Has anyone on here blamed the Jews? Has anyone here blamed Islamphobia? Once again you keep harping back to the Crusades when there are plenty of examples of atrocities carried out by "Christians" in more recent times. Tell me honestly, do you think that all Islamists are a threat or just the extremists?

Meant to add in my previous post that the pointy sheet thing wasn't my idea. A cartoon pointing out the issue came through on FB just after the requests to sign up to the ban the burka posts. I thought it was worth a mention but clearly some of you don't.

Did I say that they do? But I have only seen items on FB asking me to support banning the burka. I have plenty of friends in America but you don't see anything about banning the pointy white sheets. Not the biggest deal in the world perhaps and if certain people think it is horse sh*t fine. By the way, how do you stand on the banning of the burka for security reasons?

pole

I was over simplifying my case when I called the extremists psychopaths but those drawn to murdering and blowing themselves up are clearly not the norm. I take your point about the history of the religion but the plane fact is that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful. There has been an attempt to debate this point which, as par for the course here has gone off on a tangent, but although Christianity is supposed to be a peaceful religion, over the centuries (and yes even relatively recently) people who call themselves Christians have murdered and raped. I stick to my point that it has little to do with religion and more to do with the behaviour of the species we call Mankind. We are very good at trying to justify our actions and some will say they do it in the name of a religion or cult. I have no idea how many people how many people have been butchered in the name of one religion or another through the centuries but Islam is not alone in shedding blood. Catholics and Protestants have been killing each other for hundreds of years and it is still going on. We get ourselves worked up over people wearing a black sheet with eye holes but aren't overly bothered by people wearing white sheets with eyes holes who have been quite happy to burn and hang people of a different race and who are still active today. There are certain people who are wired in a certain way that will gravitate towards the extremes. Not all do. Some just kill and cut up their step sister or abduct, rape and kill a local teenager. Fortunately most human beings, of whatever faith, race or creed don't behave like that and conform to the moral code. The ones we have to worry about are the ones on the edge, whatever their background.

Isn't that why we come on here, to debate issues? So no I am not ashamed in the least. We all have opinions and we express them. If you wish to call that a sport that is your right. If you don't agree with my opinion, the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and the only ones we need worry about are the extremist minority, so be it.

Not a big fan of Pelle are you.

Are Stoke the new Everton?

Once again I see that a point has been deliberately ignored. The original point was raised that Islam was a violent religion. I pointed out that it was no more or less violent than Christianity. We were not talking about specific extremist groups in either religion. There are those who murder and rape who are brought up under a multitude of faiths. If you want to be picky a number of the terrorist who carried out the attack in Paris were petty criminals. Hardly deeply religious people. The point is a psychopath is a psychopath, no matter what their upbringing.

Glamp

Nipple

bishop

Not so. CEC has had a pop or two at me in the past. Fair enough, I don't mind a bit of a debate. It is the childish name calling I can do without. And who is this "we" you talk of?

I am not saying that Lowe and his Board were the best ever, but I also don't believe they were the worst people ever to run a football club. To say we were awash with money and that they didn't want to spend it on the club and pocketed is bizarre. Even the club historian, who had no time for Lowe has often said that he felt he did his best for the club. If you have any evidence of embezzlement I'd love to see it.

When someone uses the word cronies you have a pretty good idea where they are coming from. What were our running costs in 02-03? We are still one of the lowest wage playing clubs in the Premiership. Strachan did not say at the time nor has he said since that the reason he left was down to not signing those two players. We had never spent that kind of money so why you make an issue of it I don't know. I also find it interesting that whenever anything good happened under that regime there was always a reason why but nothing to do with them yet under Cortese everything good was attributed to his genius. We may well have won the cup if WGS had played a more attacking team. Kevin Davies was sat in the stand as I remember. WGS bottled it after Arsenal put 6 past us shortly before. You can only beat what is in front of you. We had Crystal Palace and Doncaster in 1976 - does that make the feat any less glorious?