sadoldgit

Sorry Duncan, should have read the whole thing before I responded. Praise? I think I have just tried to give Lowe credit for things he did right. People reading this forum who know nothing of Saints would think that everything he ever did was wrong. I also can see that he had a very difficult job. Trying to manage the fans expectations with a relatively small budget is a hard enough job for anyone. It has been said before but bares repeating. Clubs like Charlton and Norwich and yes, even the mighty Leeds have struggled to comepete. When the heat turns up it forces people into postions that often bring out what is perceived to be the worst in many people. I think anyone having to deal with what our Board dealt with when we were relegated and after would be affected by the stress and would not cover theselves in glory. I have been involved in a union and I have been a manager. I know that noth sides play games and both sides seek to get the upper hand. What I also know is that the management have a tougher job because they do not have an infinite resouces and the unions expect to have their needs met even if it is not financially viable (for unions read fans). You know yourself that Lowe once said that he didn't know where the next pound was coming from, yet the fans expected him to fund a promotion push. Of course there is more of a feelgood factor now. But don't you think that if funds had been secured and debts paid off under either Lowe, Wilde or Crouch and we had just won three matches in a week, people wouod be feeling better about the club? The bottom line is this (and forget this forum we are talking about the whole fan base now) - If Lowe was here and went up as Champions the vast majoirty of Sanits fans would be very, very happy. If, with the current regime, we get relegated again, the vast majority of fans will be very very unhappy. Where we differ 100% in what we want from the club is that I want us to be successful with no conditions and you want us to be successful so long as certain people are not here. You like every other fan thinks he knows what is best for SFC. You have quite rightly pointed out that Pearson had a difficult job to do. Don't you think that Lowe, Wilde, Crouch etc also have a difficlut job to do? And yes, judging by the fact that only a small percentage of clubs acheive any measure of success each season, doesn't that mean by default that most people running their clubs actually "fail". For us I would argue that remaining the in the Premiership was "success" and, if you take his record season by season, Lowe had more successes than failures. THis is not praise, it is just accepting what was for what it was. The fact that he called you a name and you didn't like him is neither here nor there. The new owner will either turn out to get us promoted or to an FA Cup Final and will be a success, or we will stay where we are, o rwe could go down again. He will achieve what he will achieve and will be judged either favourably by fans or not. Either way, he will need 10 years in the premiership and an F A Cup final to mirror our achievements under Lowe. This is not praise, itis simply a fact.

There are now strong characters in politics any more. The Torries will probably win by default. Not because they are the best party but because Middle England are lazy and will vote for that nice Mr Cameron because he deserves a chance and because he is not Labour. The Lib Dems have been squeezed out because for many years now both Labour and the Tories have fighting over the middle ground. New Labour/Tories/Lib Dems...what is the difference? It probbaly comes down to who has the nicest smile and haircut nowdays.

And your point is?

No I haven't been this season yet but hope to do so soon. To be honest I have never been to a home game (and I have been going since 1966) when the atmoshere has not been good. But then I have only ever seen one home defeat. I have been to plenty of away games when the atmosphere has not been good, mainly because we have been beaten. Of course Lowe made mistakes, as has every person who has ever lived. But ther were also a lot of good things that went on during his time here and they do not evaporate just because we, like many clubs like us, got relegated. I am not going to apologise for enjoying seasons where we are competitive and win football matches, as we did during Burley's only full season for us. I have never said he was the best manager we ever had but at least under him, as under McMenemy, I felt that, home and away, we always had a chance of getting a result. Frankly I don't give a stuff who the Chairman or the CEO is so long as we compete and try and play decent football. I'd give anything to see us back in the Premiership, even if it was with Lowe at the helm, because I want to see my team play against the best. When I saw my first match in 1966 the only thing that stays with me from that day was the players. I couldn't have told you who the manager was, who owned the club, what the internal politics were like... Now days it seems that we are totally obsessed with the suits. I bet there have been far more threads on here about the people who run the club from the manager upwards rather than about the players.

I agree that there is plenty to be positive about at the moment, but that will all evaporate if we do not get out of this league quickly. It was only a few days ago that the knives were already being sharpened and a target being drawn on Pardew's back. Running a football club and managing fans expectations is never easy, as the Wilde Bunch found to their cost very quickly. I hope the current regime will be very successful but you can bet your last Rollo that if we are still in this division in a couple of seasons time they will get the same hammering that previous regimes have.

But we still won and we came back from 2 goals down. 3 wins on the trot does no make a summer, but at least we have something to feel positive about and maybe it will stop some of those pointless threads musing about at which point we should sack Pardew for a while.

Yep with 20 minutes to spare. Yay. I am not defending what went wrong with the club. I query the mentality of those who slag off a manager who managed to get 1.54 point a game - a win every other game - but who raise to hero status someone who only managed to win 3 games out of 13. The same people who seem happier for us to be in the third tier of football than when we were making the play offs. Surely the club was in a better position that season? But you wouldn't think so judging by many of the comments on here.

Still wearing very thin Alpine????

Obvioulsy F A Cup finals, Premiership football, making the play offs, beating decent teams 6 -0 away from home, winning every other game etc are not things to aspire to. So much better to be sitting at the bottom of the 3rd tier of football than to have nasty men who your don't like (but have never met) have a modicom of success. You need to get over this personality fixation mate. What matters is where we are and what we achieve, not the people who make that possible. Don't you get it? I just don't get this "I'd rather be in the 3rd division with anybody but Lowe than be playing Mancheser United with Lowe mentality." Funny but Cardiff seemed to be full of people who didn't give a stuff about Lowe a few years ago. Did you go out to the movies Alpime because you couldn't bare us to have some sucess under evil pantomime villian Count Lowe? Very sad.

If you can accept 3rd tier football at any price good for you. As for being insane, if the best premier league position, an FA Cup final and European football (all achieved in the last 10 years) wasn't good enough for you I despair if you think that 3rd tier football is an adequate replacement and equates to "being on the rails."

And never has a poster had such an appropriate avarter. I see from another thread that you are already anticipating the next defeat and the response. No doubt Alpine you have already drafted your posts for that occasion?

I answer to your question, I would rather be in the CCC than in the 3rd Divison of English football under anybody solely in that we could potentially be one season closer to promotion to the Premiership. Still, personalitities mean more to you than the league position of the team Let's see how you vote if we are still in the same league in a few years time eh? ps, I assume that Pardew has now reached hero status in the Alpine household now that Pardew has managed to do in three games what Pearson took 13 to achieve???

Your choice of course. Lets see if you and your friends are still saying that in two years time if we are still in Division 3. Interesting stance though. Of course I knew all along that Alpine would rather us be in the third tier of English football with any manager than conrenders for the play offs with Burely, but each to his own. I just find it very sad that people put the position of the club before personalities. Still, on the bright side at least three wins on the trot should shut up some of the people who were calling to sack the manager for a while.

Here we go again. Same old same old. Three wins on the trot but all you can think about is what happens when we lose again, which we will at some point. Every silver lining has a cloud.

I'd say the play offs were progress wouldn't you? I'd say being well away from relegation problems was a plus wouldn't you? We are constantly told that we were plummeting down the league when he left yet his stats show a win every other game, does not stack up does it? Would that money have been "frittered" if we had made the play offs and been successful??? We so nearly did - not his fault by the way - some individual players errors. Yes I expect there was malaise. Hone's incredible statement did not help not did getting shot of Jones, Baird and Bale, but lets just blame someone who won football matches for us quite regularly eh? Remember that feeling? Still Dunc, you have got your way. I remember very clearly you saying you would rather we were relegated than have Lowe at the helm so at least one Saints fan is happy!!!

Head in the sand mate!!! Don't you read the threads here? As for Britain's greatest Saints fan, what the f*** are you talking about???

...we have coverted include Ian Dowie and Roy Keane. Both proved (so far) to be one hit wonders who probably just fell into the right job at the right time but have shown since they can't sustain it. Alan Pardew hasn't set the world alight so far but is quitely going about his job and putting pieces of the jigsaw together. Given time I think he could be an excellent manager for us but as we have seen in the last few weeks, the usual suspects have already been slagging him off and some even calling fr him to be sacked. The two most would say best managers we have ever had both took time to get their success and were anything but overnight wonders. Pardew should be given time. I can remember teams put out by both Bates and McMenemy being beaten by lower leage opponents. Torquay wasn't great but it did show that we can come back and get a result when we are not firing on all cylinders, something that Saints sides in recent years have not done too often. Pardew is not going to make us an overnight success story, but given time he might just get us out of this awful division and turn us into real contenders in the CCC.

Agree completely. I think the producer sits down with Durham and his partner before the show, they decide on a topic and who is going to take which side. One example was the other night when Durham was kicking off ablout not wanting the World Cup played here!!! What self respecting football fan would not want the greatest competition in the world played here!! The saddest thing is that it is so obviously designed to get people wound up and phoning in (Rod Marsh was very good at it) but lots of people don't see through it and engage in the process. As you say though Mike Parry is good value for money as are Hawksbee and Jacobs in the afternoon. John Gaunt was one of the worst though. Always going on about his expensive car and just a total knee jerk reactionary. I always got the feeling he was actually laughing at his listeners whilst counting his money. Nasty piece of work. Silly voice too.

What I like about Burley was that, statswise (and here they do not lie) he won every other game he played. I don't think that Pearson was here long enough to make a judgement but find it funny that he was seen as many as some kind of hero despite nealry taking us down and only winning 3 games. Perhaps if he had stayed another season he would have done better and deserved the plaudits, we shall never know. I enjoyed Burleys only full season and think he was a better manager than many give him credit for, stats or no. He certainly does not deserve the slating he gets here and was screwed by the Board in his third season here. If he lost interest who could blame him after Hone's statement? But we were still stronger with him here and plummeted when he left. It is easy to find all sorts or reasons to knock stats but I would give anything for a manger who could get 1.54 points per game now. Personally I am vey happy with Pardew and I am prepared to give him time, something many here are not. I started this thread because I think the way many Saints fans judge our managers has precious little to do with reality and more to do with the own agendas. We find all sorts of excuses to knock a relatively successful manager and yet we big up people with poorer track records. Pardew was only here five minutes before the knives were out. Go figure.

Compare der Pardew dot com, compare der Pearson dot com. Simples! So then 13 games for Pardew and 3 wins and 13 games for Pearson and 3 wins. Pearson has hero status and Pardew gets a slagging.

Especially as we have only been beaten once since the beginning of September and that with an injury time goal. If Pardew wins his next game that is 3 in 13, same as Pearson who is a hero to many on here!!!

Indeed, although strange given that we have played 5 matches in September and only lost one with a goal in injury time and we are talking about the future of our manager...hey ho.. Still, here's to 3 points today and the start of the season!!!

Perhaps he should? He did manage to win three on the bounce. I think we would be doing much worse points wise if he was still here. Both Ferguson and Howard Kendall were facing the sack shortly before they both turned their clubs around. We all think the manager is rubbish if he doesn't do the business in our timeframe but the truth is you never know what would happen if you kept him on a bit longer.

Maybe the new owners will stand by their manager? What would hve happened if we had dumped LM after he took us down? The only successful managers we have had have been here longer than 5 years and took time to get success. At some point surely we have to keep faith in someone for longer than 5 minutes?

And Roy Keane has spent £8m in the CCC - a lot of money - and Ipswich are nowhere. We might have splashed (relatively) out on Lambert but I wouldn't say that we have gone on a spending spree. If the owners expected to get out of this divison this year I would have expected more money to be spent on players to be honest. The spend so far (to me) seems to suggest that they are just looking to stabilise rather than take the league by storm this season. 5 year plan remember? Not 3 years.