Legod Third Coming Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 While I hate the league and their failure to ensure adequate funding for clubs through their mismanagement or rights and inability to create an effective cost-cap.... We are losing valuable time - far too precious a resource to waste. There are but a few weeks until our first game of the season. We have no owners, no manager and above all no plan. Time is ticking. Without a ten point penalty, losing this time would be a waste. With a ten point penalty, we are simply giving all those other clubs a head start that could be fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 While I hate the league and their failure to ensure adequate funding for clubs through their mismanagement or rights and inability to create an effective cost-cap.... We are losing valuable time - far too precious a resource to waste. There are but a few weeks until our first game of the season. We have no owners, no manager and above all no plan. Time is ticking. Without a ten point penalty, losing this time would be a waste. With a ten point penalty, we are simply giving all those other clubs a head start that could be fatal. Unfortunately you are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 While I hate the league and their failure to ensure adequate funding for clubs through their mismanagement or rights and inability to create an effective cost-cap.... We are losing valuable time - far too precious a resource to waste. There are but a few weeks until our first game of the season. We have no owners, no manager and above all no plan. Time is ticking. Without a ten point penalty, losing this time would be a waste. With a ten point penalty, we are simply giving all those other clubs a head start that could be fatal. I think we are all in agreement with you, dude. Shortest thread ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 It's a landslide in your favour. Seems to be all about word symantics and principle with TL and Pinnacle. They want to appeal simply because they have been told they can't. Let it go. Do a cost/benefit analysis. What's the cost of this appeal not only in financial terms but also in lost morale and team preparation terms? And what's the benefit? We may get our 10 point penalty overturned. Or we may lose the appeal anyway. I'd rather we swallowed it, allowed ourselves to be wronged, took the moral high ground and got on with the transfer of ownership, management choices, player contracts and training. We have bigger fish to fry than arguing about 10 lousy points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 With a ten point penalty, we are simply giving all those other clubs a head start that could be fatal. Sadly true. Delaying the formation of the squad before the start of the season was one of Lowe's many failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky Monkey Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 But come Christmas David beckham Will be in Charge of the club. It will be like watching the Sun column "striker"....within a few years will be winningteh champions league. trust me !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 Personally I don't see any major problem with it. We've been f*cked for months, so a few extra days is no big deal in the great scheme of things IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 Personally I don't see any major problem with it. We've been f*cked for months, so a few extra days is no big deal in the great scheme of things IMO. Totally disagree. Were going to start this league 10 points in arrears. Lets at least get our house in order before the league starts, get any new signings done, new coaches and a manager in place and a structure to go into pre season I wonder about how people think players get coached sometimes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 Pinnacle aren't stupid... they are the ones with the 5-year plan to turn the club around, and it is their money that underpins that plan, so if they feel, with Matt Le Tissier's blessing, that they can afford this time, then I see no problem with that. If any coach knows of something that can be done on the training ground in a few days that would make such a big difference to the fortunes of a football club, then they would be snapped up by the big boys long before now. We are at the start of a long rebuilding process and these few days won't make a blind bit of difference in the long run IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 Pinnacle aren't stupid... they are the ones with the 5-year plan to turn the club around, and it is their money that underpins that plan, so if they feel, with Matt Le Tissier's blessing, that they can afford this time, then I see no problem with that. If any coach knows of something that can be done on the training ground in a few days that would make such a big difference to the fortunes of a football club, then they would be snapped up by the big boys long before now. We are at the start of a long rebuilding process and these few days won't make a blind bit of difference in the long run IMO. Agree totally as will be clear from my posts on a couple of the myriad of threads that keep popping up, I lose track of what threads I'm following and have to check my user CP !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisobee Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 But come Christmas David beckham Will be in Charge of the club. It will be like watching the Sun column "striker"....within a few years will be winningteh champions league. trust me !! Many a true word.......... Maybe Beckham is THE money man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 It's a landslide in your favour. Seems to be all about word symantics and principle with TL and Pinnacle. They want to appeal simply because they have been told they can't. Let it go. Do a cost/benefit analysis. What's the cost of this appeal not only in financial terms but also in lost morale and team preparation terms? And what's the benefit? We may get our 10 point penalty overturned. Or we may lose the appeal anyway. I'd rather we swallowed it, allowed ourselves to be wronged, took the moral high ground and got on with the transfer of ownership, management choices, player contracts and training. We have bigger fish to fry than arguing about 10 lousy points. All very strange and it leads to alot of the other posts wondering exactly what is going on behind the scenes? I am not going to get into all the other threads from GM and FF, even though they have valid points. But this just adds to the wonder, what exactly is happening? We went into administration and managed to bypass theoretically as much as £15M of debt. There is no way on God's green earth that we will escape a -10 point penalty from the FL, especially allowing for the latitude they have within their constitution for dealing with such matters. The CVA is not an issue as the FL has already defined SLH and SFC as being in effect one body, all that is required is the CVA's for SLH and we have fully met the requirements. The only area where we have the slimmest of chances is if the FL badly advised us prior to the administration cut off point in March, that SFC would not be deducted 10 points if SLH went into administration. Now legally that would be a very big issue but looking at it from the FL's point of view it would come down to, what actual evidence do you have that SFC would have gone voluntarily into administration? When you look at Lowe and Wilde's position at the time, their only chance was to hang on and hope to come out the other side. You could well argue that there may be room for discussion because we may have been denied that option but when you consider what we have got away with, can you see any other chairman in the FL wanting to even entertain this notion? I fully agree that our right to appeal should still exist but our practical chances of being able to do so are so slim it is difficult to conceive where to place the first integer after 0.0%. Theoretically there is a good point, practically you wonder WTFIGO. Turkeys do not vote for Christmas, nor do they come out into the open to be readily picked off, no matter how solid a case a bucket load of lawyers tell you otherwise. Tony Lynham sounds an intelligent and sensible person, so I can only assume he has taken all this on board, safe in the knowledge that absolutely no harm can come from the action he is taking however remote the chance of success. I can easily go along with that, but that none the less does not stop the nerves from jangling like Chinese chimes in a typhoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 with Matt Le Tissier's blessing, that they can afford this time, then I see no problem with that. Has MLT any control of getting Pinnacle actually to force them to sign the cheque? He no doubt is as neutered as us about that. Im still 90% cewrtain it will happen.Any stalling of the wages and then!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 Has MLT any control of getting Pinnacle actually to force them to sign the cheque? He no doubt is as neutered as us about that. Im still 90% cewrtain it will happen.Any stalling of the wages and then!!!! Signing the cheque, no, but I would be surprised if he didn't have some say in things, given his knowledge of the game itself and what is usually required in pre-season. Admittedly, he never did any fitness work, so this may be misguided...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 23 June, 2009 Author Share Posted 23 June, 2009 Pinnacle aren't stupid... they are the ones with the 5-year plan to turn the club around, and it is their money that underpins that plan, so if they feel, with Matt Le Tissier's blessing, that they can afford this time, then I see no problem with that. If any coach knows of something that can be done on the training ground in a few days that would make such a big difference to the fortunes of a football club, then they would be snapped up by the big boys long before now. We are at the start of a long rebuilding process and these few days won't make a blind bit of difference in the long run IMO. It's not a few days is it? We have been a poor football team for two years. We have a little over six weeks to kick off a season where we start 10 points adrift. If this was my business, I would have been rebuilding for the ten-twelve weeks I've had at my disposal not six. It may be a long journey, but when every other team in the league starts ten points in hand and a fortnight fitter, you really are stacking the odds heavily in everyone else's favour... In sport, it's these things that make massive differences to how a team starts a campaign. Start badly and we'll be rebuilding from League Two. Urgency never hurt anyone in football or business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 It's not a few days is it? We have been a poor football team for two years. We have a little over six weeks to kick off a season where we start 10 points adrift. If this was my business, I would have been rebuilding for the ten-twelve weeks I've had at my disposal not six. Well, it's not anyone's business right now, and that's not Pinnacle's fault. They can't rebuild anything until they own it. It may be a long journey, but when every other team in the league starts ten points in hand and a fortnight fitter, you really are stacking the odds heavily in everyone else's favour... Whilst I realise it's unlikely, I think a few days delay to have the right to get the 10 points back isn't an unreasonable wager. As for a fortnight fitter, I do believe the squad were back before most others in the league, so i don't believe that is quite as bad as you make out either, even if training is not as focussed as it might be under the new manager. Urgency never hurt anyone in football or business. I agree entirely, and I'm sure Pinnacle are urgent to get things resolved. I just don't think it'll make quite as much a difference as you imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Saint Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 It would be great to have got started but i don't think many other clubs are back yet and until July not much in the way of transfers happen anyway. Of course its frustrating but let's not forget last pre-season was one of the most organised we've ever had! 'Normal' criteria for success and failure seems to not apply in the mad world of football. It is frustrating but it does look like Pinnacle have a plan, they just can't implement it yet. Another couple of weeks and the clock will be ticking but i don't think we've a lot to worry about at this stage. Keep the faith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 not panic time yet - NP was only appointed this week last year for Leicester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Martini Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 I think the big issue is that if we start with -10 then this season could become a failure just because of that. If Pinnacle are serious with their 5-year plan then that alone could make a 6-year one which would cost them a lot more money then waiting a few more days. For us supporters its easy, of course we would prefer not having the penalty but when push comes to shove we want a club more then anything else, with or without penalty. As a business decision this is not as obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJackoInHurworth Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 A question... Can we, the fans, help Pinnacle's case in any way? A Suggestion... If thousands of fans were to make a small claims court claim against the Football League for personal injury caused by the stress resulting from their ludicrous decision would that put pressure on them? Here's the scenario: Hundreds (or even thousands) of Saints fans put in a small claim against the Football League. It needs to be for less than £5000, prefereably more like £1000 or less. It doesn't need to be done with legal representation so there is no cost. It doesn't even have to be a strong case(!) the point is not necessarily to win the case, though more power to you if you can!! Within our claim though we include a waiver(!) that is conditional upon the Football League agreeing to reinstate Southampton FC to their full league status. The Football League must then respond to the case within 14 days or they lose the case. They will therefore have the following options: 1. Reply to each individual claim. Will they be able to? Perhaps not if enough people can do this! 2. Reinstate Saints before the 14 day deadline thus nullifying the claims. 3. Pay up to thousands of Saints fans. I doubt they want to do this! What do you think? Is it a go-er? Now before the legal eagles point out that we don't really have much of a case and it would be thrown out if contested, I know all that, but the point is not to realistically expect to win money from these claims but rather to put pressure on the Football League to act and to make it hard for them to contest each case, so that the easiest way to avoid the claims is to reach a quick solution with Saints - and hence its significance to this particular thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evo Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 LOL I think you are referring to something called Frivolous Litigation or Litigous Harassment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frivolous_litigation I like the idea of a "Motion to Kiss my Ass". Bless those Yankies. Unfortunately in this country you'll likely get Contempt of Court slapped on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintJackoInHurworth Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 LOL I think you are referring to something called Frivolous Litigation or Litigous Harassment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frivolous_litigation I like the idea of a "Motion to Kiss my Ass". Bless those Yankies. Unfortunately in this country you'll likely get Contempt of Court slapped on you Oh well! It was worth a try!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 23 June, 2009 Share Posted 23 June, 2009 A question... Can we, the fans, help Pinnacle's case in any way? A Suggestion... If thousands of fans were to make a small claims court claim against the Football League for personal injury caused by the stress resulting from their ludicrous decision would that put pressure on them? Here's the scenario: Hundreds (or even thousands) of Saints fans put in a small claim against the Football League. It needs to be for less than £5000, prefereably more like £1000 or less. It doesn't need to be done with legal representation so there is no cost. It doesn't even have to be a strong case(!) the point is not necessarily to win the case, though more power to you if you can!! Within our claim though we include a waiver(!) that is conditional upon the Football League agreeing to reinstate Southampton FC to their full league status. The Football League must then respond to the case within 14 days or they lose the case. They will therefore have the following options: 1. Reply to each individual claim. Will they be able to? Perhaps not if enough people can do this! 2. Reinstate Saints before the 14 day deadline thus nullifying the claims. 3. Pay up to thousands of Saints fans. I doubt they want to do this! What do you think? Is it a go-er? Now before the legal eagles point out that we don't really have much of a case and it would be thrown out if contested, I know all that, but the point is not to realistically expect to win money from these claims but rather to put pressure on the Football League to act and to make it hard for them to contest each case, so that the easiest way to avoid the claims is to reach a quick solution with Saints - and hence its significance to this particular thread! I like it. Shows imagination. Better than all those surrender monkeys on here saying we should just take the -10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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