Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Source? the liberal democrat social club in eastleigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 No doubt you'll be having this same debate but in reverse when you're 40+ with the next generation. "Dad! You can't use that outdated term "black" to refer to brown people!" Probably! Language evolves all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I don't think the use of the word coloured is in any way patronising. That's a big claim to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Source? I covered this in an earlier post when I said about it being from a colonial based attitude. It used to be preferable to the words around at the time in the 50's, but now black is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I covered this in an earlier posts when I said about it being from a colonial based attitude. It used to be preferable to the words around at the time in the 50's, but now black is used. oh my christ is everything you base an opinion from straight out of a book...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Black, brown or coloured? It's all a bit of a grey area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Probably! Language evolves all the time. Exactly. So "coloured" is fine for the 40+ generation and the 60+ generation and "black" is fine for the 40- generation. Or, are you saying that the younger generation usurp anything that the older generation still deem acceptable? Surely generations can co-exist with each having equal say as to what is right or wrong...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Coloured lumps all non-whites together as one, as some sort of other. It's a bit silly really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I covered this in an earlier post when I said about it being from a colonial based attitude. It used to be preferable to the words around at the time in the 50's, but now black is used. And thus saintandy decreed it and it was so. Or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Exactly. So "coloured" is fine for the 40+ people still alive and "black" is fine for the 40- generation. Or, are you saying that the younger generation usurp anything that the older generation still deem acceptable? Surely generations can co-exist with each having equal say as to what is right or wrong...? Well, the acceptable public term to use is black... hence why Hansen was made to apologise so it doesn't really matter what what 40+ year olds think on this issues. I don't set the meaning of terms. They are what they are and langauge has moved on from the 50's. See the spastic analogy again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Coloured lumps all non-whites together as one, as some sort of other. It's a bit silly really. Yes, it may be silly when you look at it logically (sigh) but human beings aren't always logical. If every word in the English language has to be justified logically then we'd have to update half the dictionary. FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 And thus saintandy decreed it and it was so. Or not. And thus hypochondriac decreed it and it was so. Or not. Everyone is entitled to say as they wish. If you disagree with me, engage with me, don't resort to low level insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Was it really only acceptable to use the word coloured in the fifties? I wasn't alive then but I've always considered it a harmless term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Well, the acceptable public term to use is black... hence why Hansen was made to apologise so it doesn't really matter what what 40+ year olds think on this issues. I don't set the meaning of terms. They are what they are and langauge has moved on from the 50's. See the spastic analogy again. That's not a like-for-like analogy. "spastic" was hijacked to become an overt derogatory term. "coloured" has never been used in a derogatory sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Yes, it may be silly when you look at it logically (sigh) but human beings aren't always logical. If every word in the English language has to be justified logically then we'd have to update half the dictionary. FFS. The reason people don't use it nowadays is because it sets whites vs. everyone else, the colonial attitude when we patronisingly went and took over half the world to 'fix the poor stupid coloured people who just need our help.' The white man's burden and all that(which is bull****). That's why it isn't used anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 That's not a like-for-like analogy. "spastic" was hijacked to become an overt derogatory term. "coloured" has never been used in a derogatory sense. It has in a colonial, white mans burden, sense. Not in the same way as spastic has though. But it does show how words are acceptable then not acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 it doesn't really matter what what 40+ year olds think on this issue No more questions your honour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 And thus hypochondriac decreed it and it was so. Or not. Everyone is entitled to say as they wish. If you disagree with me, engage with me, don't resort to low level insults. Don't resort to stating something as a fact like 'now black is used.' You have a narrow frame of reference and have an annoying habit of using what you have experienced as something that happens every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 That's not a like-for-like analogy. "spastic" was hijacked to become an overt derogatory term. "coloured" has never been used in a derogatory sense. Apparently it's patronising. You should know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 The reason people don't use it nowadays is because it sets whites vs. everyone else, the colonial attitude when we patronisingly went and took over half the world to 'fix the poor stupid coloured people who just need our help.' The white man's burden and all that(which is bull****). That's why it isn't used anymore. You keep saying this. Problem for you is that it IS used by quite a few and not just 40+ as you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 It has in a colonial, white mans burden, sense. Not in the same way as spastic has though. But it does show how words are acceptable then not acceptable. Except that "coloured" is still acceptable to the majority of people in the country. Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Don't resort to stating something as a fact like 'now black is used.' You have a narrow frame of reference and have an annoying habit of using what you have experienced as something that happens every time. It's a well known arguing technique known as 'implicit opinion'. Get over yourself. I have never met anyone my age who refers to black people as coloured. End of. The young peoples term is black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Except that "coloured" is still acceptable to the majority of people in the country. Probably. I have no idea. In older populations, yes. In younger populations, indifference and avoidance. It doesn't carry the same sting as the N word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Apparently it's patronising. You should know better. Ah, but it's more patronising to lecture to people what is patronising. Point to us old folk. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 You keep saying this. Problem for you is that it IS used by quite a few and not just 40+ as you believe. The 40+ band wasn't said by me. I just said young people which is 25 and under or there abouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 It's a well known arguing technique known as 'implicit opinion'. Get over yourself. I have never met anyone my age who refers to black people as coloured. End of. The young peoples term is black. So because you have never met someone of your age who uses the term, it now becomes fact that no one of your age uses it and therefor you are the voice of 'young people'. You are extremely strange. At your age I never felt like I was the voice of young people or that I represented the opinion of anyone other than myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 The thing is none of us are actually going to convince each other either way, so this is all rather pointless. I think it is just a generational thing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 It's a well known arguing technique known as 'implicit opinion'. Get over yourself. I have never met anyone my age who refers to black people as coloured. End of. The young peoples term is black. That's fine. Young people typically use black, older people typically use coloured. Both inoffensive terms that can co-exist. Ah, harmony at last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 The 40+ band wasn't said by me. I just said young people which is 25 and under or there abouts. So no one below 25 uses the term coloured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 The thing is none of us are actually going to convince each other either way, so this is all rather pointless. I think it is just a generational thing again. Yay. Agreement! Huzzah :-) Or, as us oldies say: "cushty" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 That's fine. Young people typically use black, older people typically use coloured. Both inoffensive terms that can co-exist. Ah, harmony at last. I'm quite happy to leave it there. You make an even handed comment as always trousers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 So because you have never met someone of your age who uses the term, it now becomes fact that no one of your age uses it and therefor you are the voice of 'young people'. You are extremely strange. At your age I never felt like I was the voice of young people or that I represented the opinion of anyone other than myself. In which case you can't speak for anyone either, so you better shut up as well. In fact, none of us can, so we all better shut up. Of course I can only speak for those I have met, all of us can only do that. So what you say is an obvious, and therefore pointless thing to state. If you live by what you say, you shouldn't take part in any arguments such as this. I really think a lot of people on this forum have large problems with opposing opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 So no one below 25 uses the term coloured? I never said no-one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Yay. Agreement! Huzzah :-) Or, as us oldies say: "cushty" Indeed, I just wish certain people on this forum could co-exist and argue without descent into petty insults! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Clearly many on this thread have never lived anywhere as a racial minority. Changes perspective and makes you understand why one person's focus on one aspect on this thread is just so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 22 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 22 December, 2011 SaintAndy, are you a student perchance? Its a big wide world out there, many, many, many people use the word 'coloured' - me included - and not all of them are over 40. Nor are they racist in any way. 'Coloured' is a perfectly acceptable word to describe non-white people. Only brainwashed PC zealots could find it offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Clearly many on this thread have never lived anywhere as a racial minority. Changes perspective and makes you understand why one person's focus on one aspect on this thread is just so wrong. Go on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 SaintAndy, are you a student perchance? Its a big wide world out there, many, many, many people use the word 'coloured' - me included - and not all of them are over 40. Nor are they racist in any way. 'Coloured' is a perfectly acceptable word to describe non-white people. Only brainwashed PC zealots could find it offensive. I'm on a gap year. I'm going to University next year, so that'll be good. I know many use it, my Grandparents do! And I don't have a go at them for it. It's a generational thing. I think intent is important. I'm not a fan of overt PC stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 22 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 22 December, 2011 (edited) Clearly many on this thread have never lived anywhere as a racial minority. Changes perspective and makes you understand why one person's focus on one aspect on this thread is just so wrong. I used to live in Tanzania. Everyone - and i mean, everyone - used to refer to me as the Muzungu. Which means 'white man' or 'European'. Didn't bother me at all. Except when the little nippers would run up and shout 'Muzungu! Muzungu! Give me money!'. They got a bloody good clip round the ear and sent on their way. The Kiswahili word for God is 'Mungu' so sometimes I would pretend to miss hear and reply 'Yes, I am white and I am your God. Get over it'. The coloured Africans around the bar (all my buddies) would fall off their bar stools laughing. All good fun. Africans are not PC. Edited 22 December, 2011 by 1976_Child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 In which case you can't speak for anyone either, so you better shut up as well. In fact, none of us can, so we all better shut up. Of course I can only speak for those I have met, all of us can only do that. So what you say is an obvious, and therefore pointless thing to state. If you live by what you say, you shouldn't take part in any arguments such as this. I really think a lot of people on this forum have large problems with opposing opinions. I have absolutely no problem with someone who believes that the term coloured is patronising or that it isn't used among young people. The problem I have is when you act as the voice of the younger generation based on your relatively narrow experiences. The difference is that I am not pretending that my view is the view of all older people, nor am I pretending to speak for all of those over a certain age. I know some of the younger generation who use the term coloured (just asked a relative of mine in fact who said she uses it) so there you go. Don't make the mistake of thinking that what you and your mates believe is the definitive beliefs of 'the young generation.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I've never heard of the term coloured being patronising, I thought it just meant mixed race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I have absolutely no problem with someone who believes that the term coloured is patronising or that it isn't used among young people. The problem I have is when you act as the voice of the younger generation based on your relatively narrow experiences. The difference is that I am not pretending that my view is the view of all older people, nor am I pretending to speak for all of those over a certain age. I know some of the younger generation who use the term coloured (just asked a relative of mine in fact who said she uses it) so there you go. Don't make the mistake of thinking that what you and your mates believe is the definitive beliefs of 'the young generation.' I don't pretend to be the voice of 'the young generation'. Several of my friends would disagree with me on many issues(though none of them used the term coloured!). My experiences in life are narrow, though so are yours. Most people have not experienced much except from their own perspective and it is only from that that we can formulate our opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 22 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I've never heard of the term coloured being patronising, I thought it just meant mixed race. It was used thus in South Africa as a legally defined group. Not black, not asian, not white. So in SA it might be considered inappropriate. But not in blighty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I'm not going to defend the way Andy has made his points, but I have to admit that in general terms, I have grown up to learn that I shouldn't use the term 'coloured'. I've never actually know why, because I always felt similarly to many of you above, that it was being used purely in broad descriptive terms (just as 'white' is), and just because it has been used in racist ways by others in the past, doesn't mean it always is. Here's a BBC article from 2006 about it with some background: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6132672.stm Personally I think the only way to avoid this kind of scenario is to solely use descriptions of ethnicity, i.e. Afro-Caribbean, African British, and that if we're not sure, to perhaps describe people as being from 'various ethnic backgrounds', but I would not seek to punish anyone who uses a term when it is CLEARLY not intended to be used in any kind of racist way. They say ignorance is no excuse when it comes to the law, but actually, given how much things change in this world, I don't think anyone can be criticised for genuinely not realising that a term *may* cause offence like Hansen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 SaintAndy, are you a student perchance? Its a big wide world out there, many, many, many people use the word 'coloured' - me included - and not all of them are over 40. Nor are they racist in any way. 'Coloured' is a perfectly acceptable word to describe non-white people. Only brainwashed PC zealots could find it offensive. Totally this. Threads like this suggest that Andy has not had much life experience or I think he would think differently about quite a few things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 (edited) I don't pretend to be the voice of 'the young generation'. Several of my friends would disagree with me on many issues(though none of them used the term coloured!). My experiences in life are narrow, though so are yours. Most people have not experienced much except from their own perspective and it is only from that that we can formulate our opinions. So when you say 'no young person would use the word coloured.' What you actually mean is 'My mates and I don't use the word.' Fair enough. Edited 22 December, 2011 by hypochondriac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 No young person would say coloured. They would say black. In the future, the term coloured won't be used at all. At the moment, it is only used by older generations. Well youngster, stop trying to re-train us oldies, we don't need it! Plus, last time I looked, it was still a free speech society, but you and your tree hugging buddies, would have it not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Go on... Roughly 80% of the population here are from SE Asia. Of the remainder, 80% are from Arabic speaking lands. Of the final 80%, 20% are white. A previous employer brought a British Asian down as their Marketing Director. He lasted 4 months before having a nervous breakdown, he discovered he was not black and not white. My best mate is from Redcar, he's been here 1 year less than me. About 4 years ago I was shocked to hear someone call him Black. He's not, he's a Brit. Until you see how reverse racism works you think you're it in the UK. The rest of the world doesn't see it that way. White man in Jamaica? Easy Target. White man in India? Easy Target. People who insist on categorising people - like you - are the ones at fault. Just perpetuating the krap in the name of PC. They are people. Judge them on their ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Totally this. Threads like this suggest that Andy has not had much life experience or I think he would think differently about quite a few things. That's just a silly thing to say. If I had more experience, I would think the same things as you. If that were true, everyone who is older than me would think the same as you, and then don't. Just learn to accept people have different opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 The reason people don't use it nowadays is because it sets whites vs. everyone else, the colonial attitude when we patronisingly went and took over half the world to 'fix the poor stupid coloured people who just need our help.' The white man's burden and all that(which is bull****). That's why it isn't used anymore. You really need to hit your history books a bit more son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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