lordswoodsaints Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 im not sure how much money the MANU game will generate for the club from gate receipts and tv etc but could this be enough to enable us to keep hold of a key player instead of selling one. perhaps surman,lallana or davies would not have to be sold,i know that the money generated would be nothing like the amount we would recieve in a transfer fee but it would surely be enough to pay the wages of at least 1 player,maybe even 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Lowe classed it as 'a drop in the ocean' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scudamore Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Research? http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/3941179.Lowe__United_cash_windfall_won_t_solve_financial_problems/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopGun Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 If the gate is split 45/45/10 to Saints/Man U/FA then even if the ground is full at 32,000 (assuming corners were opened) we would gain no more than we would for a league fixture with a 15,000 crowd. TV might add a few more quid but I'm afraid this is just like the money from one extra league home game after extra costs have been taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 If the gate is split 45/45/10 to Saints/Man U/FA then even if the ground is full at 32,000 (assuming corners were opened) we would gain no more than we would for a league fixture with a 15,000 crowd. TV might add a few more quid but I'm afraid this is just like the money from one extra league home game after extra costs have been taken into account. As you said it's the same amount as a league game, except TV which will bring in £160,000, much more than just a few quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronCitySaint Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Yep, Lowe has already scuppered any thoughts that this match would make much difference in the scheme of things (most likely meaning those players in demand are off anyway). Surprised you are not up to date on the words of the great man today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Looks like we could make about £500,000 from the Man Utd game, but as others have pointed out, this isn't really "neat profit" in a budgetary sense. A fairly "standard" game (say, against a middle-ranking Championship team) would net about £100,000. And we'd have a better chance of winning such a game, netting a £50,000 win bonus and getting more revenue in the 4th, 5th round etc. In terms of cash revenue - if you make the pessimistic assumption that Sainst will lose to Man Utd - the windfall is about the same as e.g beating Blackpool in the 3rd round, Coventry in the 4th round and then losing to Cardiff in the 5th round. What's really perverse is that we are probably better off drawing the match than winning it. A replay at Old Trafford could net us over £750,000 which is probably more than we'd get from subsequent fixtures if we actually knocked Man Utd out. If we are 1-0 up with 30 seconds to go, then in financial terms, we're probably best advised to score a deliberate own goal. Just another twisted example of the impact of finance on the national game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Well on the bright side, we'll get more money for Man U at home than we would for Histon Away, and we'd be equally likely to lose both. Who knows what total football could do to a real team of Academy players..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 2 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Looks like we could make about £500,000 from the Man Utd game, but as others have pointed out, this isn't really "neat profit" in a budgetary sense. A fairly "standard" game (say, against a middle-ranking Championship team) would net about £100,000. And we'd have a better chance of winning such a game, netting a £50,000 win bonus and getting more revenue in the 4th, 5th round etc. In terms of cash revenue - if you make the pessimistic assumption that Sainst will lose to Man Utd - the windfall is about the same as e.g beating Blackpool in the 3rd round, Coventry in the 4th round and then losing to Cardiff in the 5th round. What's really perverse is that we are probably better off drawing the match than winning it. A replay at Old Trafford could net us over £750,000 which is probably more than we'd get from subsequent fixtures if we actually knocked Man Utd out. If we are 1-0 up with 30 seconds to go, then in financial terms, we're probably best advised to score a deliberate own goal. Just another twisted example of the impact of finance on the national game. but wouldnt beating manu at home and then drawing say arsenal away for the next round bring in more money than drawing at home with manu and then getting beat at their place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 but wouldnt beating manu at home and then drawing say arsenal away for the next round bring in more money than drawing at home with manu and then getting beat at their place? Yes it would. But on a basic probabilty model, we're more likely to draw some middle-ranking team (and lose). So, mathematically, we'd be better off "banking" an Od Trafford replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Once they have rolled over in the replay, and we move on to the next round to draw the Arse, the money will be rolling in :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 If the gate is split 45/45/10 to Saints/Man U/FA then even if the ground is full at 32,000 (assuming corners were opened) we would gain no more than we would for a league fixture with a 15,000 crowd. TV might add a few more quid but I'm afraid this is just like the money from one extra league home game after extra costs have been taken into account. Nope, you are ignoring completely the extra revenue from the sale of merchandies, burgers, beer and programmes. Clearly there are also extra costs involved, but astute business people would be able to turnover a substantially bigger profit from this source than from a game with only 15000 customers. Of course, thats the rub, although some people like to imagine that Lowe is an astute businessman, the truth is that he is not and cannot see the gift horse's mouth and instead refers to it as a drop in the ocean. You see he is a typical modern day negative business man who believes the only way to make more money is to reduce costs (reduce costs = reduce jobs), whereas enlightened business people realise there is another way, and that is by increasing revenue whenever there is an opportunity. This is why some clubs in lower leagues are able to make a profit, while we continue to make bigger and bigger losses and lose more and more customers (sorry spectators). The reality of course is that this one game is not going to be a serious windfall, but there is potential to make a decent profit from a piece of good fortune. Imagine how much we would have made if we had been drawn away to Histon. The other good news is that the game is on Sultana, so no drop in revenue due to people watching the game on the telly instead of live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 What's really perverse is that we are probably better off drawing the match than winning it. A replay at Old Trafford could net us over £750,000 which is probably more than we'd get from subsequent fixtures if we actually knocked Man Utd out. If we are 1-0 up with 30 seconds to go, then in financial terms, we're probably best advised to score a deliberate own goal. Just another twisted example of the impact of finance on the national game. Lol, I can just picture the scene now. We're 1-0 up with 5 minutes to go. Lowe makes his way down from the royal box and on to the touchline, out into the technical box and gesticulates madly to our players encouraging them to go for goal at our own end:) Sounds daft, so I wouldn't put it past him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 only way to turn a nice profit from the game really is to draw it. 76000 at old trafford generates near on £3m in gate reciepts i seem to remember reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooley11 Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 going on info posted elsewhere on here: If the game sells out, 32,000 fans at an average of £23 is £736000 We get 45% of this £331,200, add £160,000 tv money gives a total of £491,200 £491,200 less the cost of putting on the game, which i wouldn't like to guess, this game alone will be a great money spinner for the club. With a draw and a reply at Old Trafford: 76,000 fans @ £30 = £2,280,000 45% = £1,026,000 I would guess tv again £160,000 gives us £1,186,000 Grand total with a draw first game = £1,677,200 If we can get that draw then this tie may not be our saviour, but could mean keeping certain players in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 Nope, you are ignoring completely the extra revenue from the sale of merchandies, burgers, beer and programmes. Clearly there are also extra costs involved, but astute business people would be able to turnover a substantially bigger profit from this source than from a game with only 15000 customers. Of course, thats the rub, although some people like to imagine that Lowe is an astute businessman, the truth is that he is not and cannot see the gift horse's mouth and instead refers to it as a drop in the ocean. You see he is a typical modern day negative business man who believes the only way to make more money is to reduce costs (reduce costs = reduce jobs), whereas enlightened business people realise there is another way, and that is by increasing revenue whenever there is an opportunity. This is why some clubs in lower leagues are able to make a profit, while we continue to make bigger and bigger losses and lose more and more customers (sorry spectators). The reality of course is that this one game is not going to be a serious windfall, but there is potential to make a decent profit from a piece of good fortune. Imagine how much we would have made if we had been drawn away to Histon. The other good news is that the game is on Sultana, so no drop in revenue due to people watching the game on the telly instead of live The extra money from merchandising, catering sales etc. if pretty tiny. Perhaps a very, very optimistic maximum of £3 profit a a person? So, maybe an additional £50,000 at absolute best. Worth having, but no great shakes. I agree though that there isn't much imagination in maximising revenues. Obvious thing is to tie ticket sales to having to purpose seats for a future league match, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 going on info posted elsewhere on here: If the game sells out, 32,000 fans at an average of £23 is £736000 We get 45% of this £331,200, add £160,000 tv money gives a total of £491,200 £491,200 less the cost of putting on the game, which i wouldn't like to guess, this game alone will be a great money spinner for the club. With a draw and a reply at Old Trafford: 76,000 fans @ £30 = £2,280,000 45% = £1,026,000 I would guess tv again £160,000 gives us £1,186,000 Grand total with a draw first game = £1,677,200 If we can get that draw then this tie may not be our saviour, but could mean keeping certain players in January. This is incorrect, VAT has to be paid along with all the expenses the club incur to stage this match, the away clubs travelling expenses and the officials expenses and fees so the actual 45% we receive is a lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 (edited) im not sure how much money the MANU game will generate for the club from gate receipts and tv etc but could this be enough to enable us to keep hold of a key player instead of selling one. perhaps surman,lallana or davies would not have to be sold,i know that the money generated would be nothing like the amount we would recieve in a transfer fee but it would surely be enough to pay the wages of at least 1 player,maybe even 2. We'll make something like half a million from this game. That's the equivalent of more than 2,000 extra punters for every home game we've played so far. We obviously need to scream & moan alot louder on here if an extra 2,000 punters for the first ten games is only a drop in the ocean!!!!! Edited 2 December, 2008 by um pahars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoakley Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 I think the tv money will help us pay wages for 2 maybe 3 weeks and the gate recipts will hopefully make us a bit more then were getting at the moment so it might be a case of the money from this game payin wages and putting some money towards the debt and keeping away from admin for another 2-3 weeks but should we sell someone like john or saga for around 500k keep the other one to help us go futher up the league and that would surely help us keep out of admin till the summer and a decent league postion would help us gain a extra grand.? if not then this game needs to be a draw or a win for us lol and that aint going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 I think the tv money will help us pay wages for 2 maybe 3 weeks and the gate recipts will hopefully make us a bit more then were getting at the moment so it might be a case of the money from this game payin wages and putting some money towards the debt and keeping away from admin for another 2-3 weeks but should we sell someone like john or saga for around 500k keep the other one to help us go futher up the league and that would surely help us keep out of admin till the summer and a decent league postion would help us gain a extra grand.? if not then this game needs to be a draw or a win for us lol and that aint going to happen. We could win Burnley have just beaten Arsenal in the Carling Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 2 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 2 December, 2008 We'll make something like half a million from this game. That's the equivalent of more than 2,000 extra punters for every home game we've played so far. We obviously need to scream & moan alot louder on here if an extra 2,000 punters for the first ten games is only a drop in the ocean!!!!! am i right in saying that a 17k crowd is the break even point? if so then putting it like that,the manu game will have seen us break even for the first 10 games more or less............all we need is another couple of 'manu type' games and we are financially stable:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 am i right in saying that a 17k crowd is the break even point? if so then putting it like that,the manu game will have seen us break even for the first 10 games more or less............all we need is another couple of 'manu type' games and we are financially stable:-) If only it was that simple!!!! I've seen the David Luker quote, but have to say I'm not sure about it's veracity, as I just can't see that such a low figure would see us breaking even (even after allowinf for the savings made to date). Even with last years attendances, costs were 15million more than income. This year's attendances (and even the 17,000 figure) would mean that income would have fallen, and although we have saved money, I can't see how we haved saved that much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 This is incorrect, VAT has to be paid along with all the expenses the club incur to stage this match, the away clubs travelling expenses and the officials expenses and fees so the actual 45% we receive is a lot less. No it is not. The 45% you quote comes after all the expenses of putting on the game have been deducted & the away team's travelling expenses will not come out of the general take. Don't forget the knock ons. We should be able to make a few bob out of perimeter advertising, corporate hospitality packages,programme sales, food and drink sales,extra sales in the club shop etc etc - and these receipts will not have to be shared. If we cannot make the equivalent of 45% gross then our marketing team will need to be shot!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/West Saint Posted 2 December, 2008 Share Posted 2 December, 2008 If we did win would that bring back some of the missing thousands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 A couple of ways of generating extra cash would be :- 1. give a free Man Utd ticket to anyone purchasing a half season ticket 2. Sell the Man Utd ticket as a dual purchase with a ticket for the next home game which is Doncaster. Any other thought or lateral thinking on ways in which we can make the most of this opportunity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 3 December, 2008 Author Share Posted 3 December, 2008 whatever the outcome of the game,the fact is we are going to be better off with it, so lets all pull in the right direction,put all of the petty squabbling behind us (including me) and get behind the team for what should be a great and exciting game played in front of a full house(hopefully),something we have not experienced for a long time. hopefully some people will once again reignite their passion for watching the saints and come to a few more league games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 whatever the outcome of the game,the fact is we are going to be better off with it, so lets all pull in the right direction,put all of the petty squabbling behind us (including me) and get behind the team for what should be a great and exciting game played in front of a full house(hopefully),something we have not experienced for a long time. hopefully some people will once again reignite their passion for watching the saints and come to a few more league games. Totally agree with you on this and I have been one of the culprits with flippant remarks/replies. No offence meant as I know from many you are a top supporter and want what is best for the club and the team....My passion will always be with the team and one day soon to return to St Marys...Until then I will cheer them on as much as possible. Best Wishes to you and the team for the coming festive period. Ottery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 3 December, 2008 Share Posted 3 December, 2008 What are the odds we beat United and follow it up with a 3-0 defeat at the hands of Barnsley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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