5 years ago

[cambsaint]

I shall never forget Boxing Day 2003 when Siants were taken apart by Fulham in the shape of Malbranque and Saha at Loftus Road.

 

Rumour has it that Strachan asked Lowe to buy Malbranque and his outright refusal sparked his resignation, and our ultimate fall into mediocrity.

 

My son and I wnt with so much hope, memories of the glory days under Macnemeny were rekindled.

Our hopes began to fade that day to be shattered some weeks later by Strachan's surprise resignation and the atrocious series of errors Lowe made in appointing his successor.

 

It seems particularly significant that probably the only time in Lowe's life when he actually listened to anybody else, brought about the (imo) dreadful mistake of not reappointimng Hoddle.

 

That match also holds other poignant memories for me,-returning to Mum-in-law's home in London when she was still happy, well and alive; andit was one of the last away games I watched before heart disease greatly curtailed my football watching.

[Dalek2003]

WGS was going to go and the plans were being made to replace him with Hoddle...and then...oh dear we brought in a league 1 manager.

Still, at least we are building the team to match the manager.

[Windmill Arm 2]

I was serving in Northern Ireland for the first part of 2003, and skipped a patrol to watch the cup final. Such great times, and only 5 years ago. This thread is utterly depressing. Lowe had the chance to build on that success, he failed....and now we are facing the very real possibility of League 1. Cheers woopert you Kunt

[corsacar saint]

I remember the 3-0 against Portsmouth very well.We took them apart, and how they

finished with 11 men on the pitch[ after kicking lumps out of us, to keep the score down],I do not know.

Where we are now, and they are , is to say the least heartbreaking.

[Frank's cousin]

no one is saying we have a devine right...does not take detract from the fact some get sad when they remember the good times...is that so wrong? it shows people actually care in a way? how does that make you think other assume we have some sort of devine right to anything..?

 

No one is saying you cant be sad, I am saddened by the decline, but I guess pragmatic - we were always really on a knife edge, with the exception of the WGS year, the premiership changed football - and those smaller clubs such as us became under ever increasing pressure to either increase debt to fund expensive transfers and wages ...JUST TO STAND STILL.... or have a rich owner... and in any sport there is also a big element of luck, which can be a complete and utter bastard if its against you. The fans would have been at the time happy had we spent loads, borrowing to fund the smal chance of increasing one place in the league, the management felt this was wrong. Agents saw an opportunity to drive up the market for transfers and wgaes not giving a flying feck about what this was doing to th geame, and the top or bigger clubs lapped it up, knowing a closed shop of trophies was not far away, with agents supplying them the best players without having to do the dirty work.... what do we see now in the prem...declining attendences - sure cost in this climate is a factor, but so is the boredom of knowing your side can only ever get to mid tabl - because someone bigger with more cash will tempyt away your best players never allowing you to build a side that is loyal and cares for the club they play for... and now its even worse, because we simply cant afford to say no, whatever the players say...

 

Sorry, dissillusioned with the game - not the club - We often I think forget that the biggest contributing factor to our current situation is the disparity in revenues between the prem and the CCC - relegation and promotion have always been partof football, but this vast discrepency in income, is destroying clubs like us, e nolonger can afford to keep players who would be average squad players in the prem - so we simply cant build on what we begin.

[saint1977]

No one is saying you cant be sad, I am saddened by the decline, but I guess pragmatic - we were always really on a knife edge, with the exception of the WGS year, the premiership changed football - and those smaller clubs such as us became under ever increasing pressure to either increase debt to fund expensive transfers and wages ...JUST TO STAND STILL.... or have a rich owner... and in any sport there is also a big element of luck, which can be a complete and utter bastard if its against you. The fans would have been at the time happy had we spent loads, borrowing to fund the smal chance of increasing one place in the league, the management felt this was wrong. Agents saw an opportunity to drive up the market for transfers and wgaes not giving a flying feck about what this was doing to th geame, and the top or bigger clubs lapped it up, knowing a closed shop of trophies was not far away, with agents supplying them the best players without having to do the dirty work.... what do we see now in the prem...declining attendences - sure cost in this climate is a factor, but so is the boredom of knowing your side can only ever get to mid tabl - because someone bigger with more cash will tempyt away your best players never allowing you to build a side that is loyal and cares for the club they play for... and now its even worse, because we simply cant afford to say no, whatever the players say...

 

Sorry, dissillusioned with the game - not the club - We often I think forget that the biggest contributing factor to our current situation is the disparity in revenues between the prem and the CCC - relegation and promotion have always been partof football, but this vast discrepency in income, is destroying clubs like us, e nolonger can afford to keep players who would be average squad players in the prem - so we simply cant build on what we begin.

 

I agree with the vast majority of what you say Frank and Abramovic arriving at Chelsea in 2003 was a tipping point for a lot of clubs. We got a great deal on Wayne Bridge but we lost another player in Marsden almost overnight and losing a local lad ripped the heart out of the side in some ways although the results were very good in the first half of 2003/4.

 

My contention is that the club was very attractive for investment at that stage and Lowe should have dumped Askham & co and brought in the extra injection of revenue before other clubs were looking to do it. Also, when medium-sized clubs take their foot off of the pedal in the PL, they get punished - look at Charlton as well. SFC had outgrown that generation of directors and probably Lowe's style of management. If you are a John Madjeski, you can be a dictator and interfere but not when you only own 6%.

 

Hull City are an example of finding the right level of investment without an out-and-out sugar daddy to push them forward. Still, outside of the top 4 any club can go down and the penalties are too severe. If we'd gone down in these conditions in 1974, we wouldn't have had those wonderful years to follow. Maybe the world economy will equalise things again so that we can get our "game" back.

[mprobert]

nostalgia's not what it used to be

[mitch01]

our squad was gash in 2005. FACT. davenport, jakobsson etc avreage at best.

 

Team for last day in prem:

 

Niemi- quality prem player 8/10

Telfer- 5/10

Lundekvam- 7/10

Higginbotham- 6/10

Bernard-5/10 (Davenport 78 ) 4/10

Prutton 3/10 (Phillips 71) 6/10

Redknapp 7/10

Quashie 5/10

Le Saux 6/10 (Delap 71)5/10

Camara 5/10

Ormerod 3/10

Subs Not Used: Smith, Oakley.

 

Very poor team if you ask me, would have been slightly better with crouch but we still deserved to go down with that team. Bringing on Delap to try and save us from relegation says it all...

 

 

All depends on how they are used, Ormerod was superb under WGS. Delap and Telfer were able players too. Bernard was top drawer at Newcastle but awful for us, so much for Redknapp's inspirational man-management.

[CB Fry]

This thread highlights the real highs and lows in Southamptons history. Some would say never look back, some say looking forward is difficult, others use the past to remind us that it's not always been about the Prem. To me, this reminds me of a period in our history where we were going forward. Like in '84, we were progressive. The thing that I find hardest to stomach is that we've seem to have lost our uniqueness.

 

we can compare ourselves to teams like Sunderland or Norwich or Portsmouth or whoever, but for me, Saints were unique. Everyone seemed to love the passion in our game. Our attacking flare as it were. Many seasons would pass where I could compete against my Arsenal or Tottenham supporting mates by betting them that we would score 50 goals before they would. Of course I would always win, but then we'd also concede 50 goals before anyone else!

 

It wasn't just about grit and determination, it wasn't about attack, attack, attack, it was about cold, wet, floodlit games at the Dell. The crowd on top of the pitch, and as one big family, cheering on, what seemed like, our boys. We have lost this, and in some way, maybe it was our success, that has brought about our downfall. Dare I say it, maybe it is SMS that has taken the soul of this club away. Sure, we weren't going to survive without a move to a larger, better facilitated stadium, but, in doing so, we left behind our uniqueness! From now on, we will only ever be as good as Sunderland or Norwich, we will never be unique again, and maybe, this will lead us to be also ran's instead of the club that was everyone's favourite underdog, because at least we got behind our team, no matter the results.

 

I must have missed the glorious days of success the Dell brought us when we narrowly avoided relegation for four of the last five seasons before 1997.

 

Saints at the Dell weren't that unique, plenty of grounds could claim to be "packed in", with crowds "on top of the pitch", WHU being the best example.

 

And we were only "ever as good" as Sunderland and Norwich beforehand anyway - your post is just blinkered fandom. Plenty of clubs the same size as us had success blows our apparent "uniqueness" out of the water - Ipswich and Forest won European trophies FFS, and Derby won the bloody league twice. Norwich finished in the top five in the Prem era and had a better run in Europe than our solitary match post Heysel.

 

And making out Saints are "unique" because fans "get behind our team". Wow. Unheard of.

 

Basically we're big also-ran club, with a par level ranging from the bottom half of the Prem to the top half of the CCC - when we were 4th under Strachan we were at the peak of our level, we're now near the depths of our level (but lower isn't beyond us either, and not unlikely these days).

 

But spare the "we're so unique" faff. We're as "unique" as everyone else.

[londonsaint1604]

Great post CB. It's good to read something grounded and based on the reality rather than all this emotional, nostalgic whining about how great things were back in the good old days and things will never be the same.

 

John Smith you need to lighten up, mate. Times change, it's a fact of life as well as in football and we aren't the only club to have suffered a major decline in the past 5-10 years. It happens very often and I'll bet you the likes of Leeds, Leicester, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Norwich etc and ourselves will be back one day.

 

Of course, if everyone has your attitude (which fortunately they don't!) then things certainly won't improve as you sound as though you have basically given up on the club.

[Legod Third Coming]

Great post CB. It's good to read something grounded and based on the reality rather than all this emotional, nostalgic whining about how great things were back in the good old days and things will never be the same.

 

John Smith you need to lighten up, mate. Times change, it's a fact of life as well as in football and we aren't the only club to have suffered a major decline in the past 5-10 years. It happens very often and I'll bet you the likes of Leeds, Leicester, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Norwich etc and ourselves will be back one day.

 

Of course, if everyone has your attitude (which fortunately they don't!) then things certainly won't improve as you sound as though you have basically given up on the club.

 

Look at them five years ago or so - League Cup winnrs being managed by Martin O-Neil FFS. Now in League One - albeit doing a good job of coming back.

 

All this thread proves is that sh!t happens.

 

And if you didn't know that already, what a clueless clown you were.

[John Smith]

I must have missed the glorious days of success the Dell brought us when we narrowly avoided relegation for four of the last five seasons before 1997.

 

Saints at the Dell weren't that unique, plenty of grounds could claim to be "packed in", with crowds "on top of the pitch", WHU being the best example.

 

And we were only "ever as good" as Sunderland and Norwich beforehand anyway - your post is just blinkered fandom. Plenty of clubs the same size as us had success blows our apparent "uniqueness" out of the water - Ipswich and Forest won European trophies FFS, and Derby won the bloody league twice. Norwich finished in the top five in the Prem era and had a better run in Europe than our solitary match post Heysel.

 

And making out Saints are "unique" because fans "get behind our team". Wow. Unheard of.

 

Basically we're big also-ran club, with a par level ranging from the bottom half of the Prem to the top half of the CCC - when we were 4th under Strachan we were at the peak of our level, we're now near the depths of our level (but lower isn't beyond us either, and not unlikely these days).

 

But spare the "we're so unique" faff. We're as "unique" as everyone else.

 

I see my little pet troll is back.

 

Hi little John Smith Junior, is this love that I'm feeling, are you pulling my pigtails again. You are very cute, the way you keep following me around, trying to get my attention, but I am married, so, let me pat you on the head and send you on your way, there's a good ittle boy.

 

Oh, and by the way, I was saying, it was unique FOR ME.

 

Didn't say it brought success.

 

It's just a shame that you are so young as to not remember the Dell. But never mind my little trolling friend, there's many a youtube post that you could look up.

 

It's nice to see you getting yourself a few lapdogs though, Must make you feel important, lol.

 

Have you apologised for being totally wrong in our last debate and calling me names and abusing me, even though you were out of order? Do you ever, to anyone?

 

No CB, you are a troll and you live in a hole, now jog on little boy.

 

D*CK!

[scott_saints]

lol@ John Smith

[CB Fry]

I see my little pet troll is back.

 

Hi little John Smith Junior, is this love that I'm feeling, are you pulling my pigtails again. You are very cute, the way you keep following me around, trying to get my attention, but I am married, so, let me pat you on the head and send you on your way, there's a good ittle boy.

 

Oh, and by the way, I was saying, it was unique FOR ME.

 

Didn't say it brought success.

 

It's just a shame that you are so young as to not remember the Dell. But never mind my little trolling friend, there's many a youtube post that you could look up.

 

It's nice to see you getting yourself a few lapdogs though, Must make you feel important, lol.

 

Have you apologised for being totally wrong in our last debate and calling me names and abusing me, even though you were out of order? Do you ever, to anyone?

 

No CB, you are a troll and you live in a hole, now jog on little boy.

 

D*CK!

 

 

I doubt very much the couple of posters who agree with me would describe themselves as "my lapdogs" as you have, esp Le God who I have never met but we have had some entertaining debates with on here in our time.

 

I have absolutely no recollection of what our last debate was about, although I seriously doubt I was wrong.

 

And for your info I am plenty old/young enough to remember the Dell and have seen more football there than any other ground, including SMS as I moved away from Southampton before SMS even opened.

 

And as for "trolling you" and "following you around", maybe you should tell the readers of this forum the last time I responded to anything you posted, because I'd be amazed if it was as recent as six weeks ago. I can't remember a thing about it - apologies if you are still waking up at midnight with your sheets wet through getting in a tizz over it.

 

I think you are a seriously damaged individual, and I'd strongly advise you avoid my contributions in future as you clearly can't cope with reason.

 

Your risposte to my response is "I only said it was unique to me" which is just pointless isn't it. Re-read your original post, which is all about how unique Saints is and how much success the Dell brought us. Seriously, it is. You wrote it.

 

If the uniqueness that you are moaning about losing is just uniqueness to you then what's the problem - if it is all about uniqueness to you, then just make out they are unique again to yourself and job done. Stop boring the rest of us.

[John Smith]

I doubt very much the couple of posters who agree with me would describe themselves as "my lapdogs" as you have, esp Le God who I have never met but we have had some entertaining debates with on here in our time.

 

I have absolutely no recollection of what our last debate was about, although I seriously doubt I was wrong.

 

And for your info I am plenty old/young enough to remember the Dell and have seen more football there than any other ground, including SMS as I moved away from Southampton before SMS even opened.

 

And as for "trolling you" and "following you around", maybe you should tell the readers of this forum the last time I responded to anything you posted, because I'd be amazed if it was as recent as six weeks ago. I can't remember a thing about it - apologies if you are still waking up at midnight with your sheets wet through getting in a tizz over it.

 

I think you are a seriously damaged individual, and I'd strongly advise you avoid my contributions in future as you clearly can't cope with reason.

 

Your risposte to my response is "I only said it was unique to me" which is just pointless isn't it. Re-read your original post, which is all about how unique Saints is and how much success the Dell brought us. Seriously, it is. You wrote it.

 

If the uniqueness that you are moaning about losing is just uniqueness to you then what's the problem - if it is all about uniqueness to you, then just make out they are unique again to yourself and job done. Stop boring the rest of us.

 

Don;t you worry yourself little man, I can cope with your posts, (pats CB on the head).

 

Couple of quotes from my original post, that you feel so worthy a post to reply on and 'debate' on whilst apparrently doing something on your bedsheets, you really shouldn;t judge others by your own standards and actions, makes you look silly, any way, two quotes, one from mthe first paragraph, one from the second, the third was a conclusion:

 

"To me, this reminds me of a period in our history where we were going forward"

 

Note how I begin the sentence with "to me".

 

"we can compare ourselves to teams like Sunderland or Norwich or Portsmouth or whoever, but for me, Saints were unique."

 

Note how, just near the end, I state "for me".

 

Now I know it's difficult to read my post without trying to argue your own point and not actually what I wrote, but it's not the first time and I'm sure it won;t be the last.

 

|From what I can tell, this thread was about the past and really CB, if you have nothing to say about the past, go and post elsewhere.

 

I NEVER said anything about it being there being many glorious years at the Dell, but you and the age thing:

 

"I must have missed the glorious days of success the Dell brought us" - 1984 was quite a good year don't you think? But like you say, you must've missed it.

 

So, in conclusion, I stated that The Dell was Unique for me, I also visited the Goldstone (think that's how it was spelt) in 1978, Brighton were playing Wolves and Andy Grey was up front for Wolves. Also went to Craven Cottage when Lineaker was playing for Leicester, I had a picnic on the banks of Plough Lane when Wimbledon weren't even in the football league, but going to the Dell was Unique for me. I'm sure (from what I have heard), Roker park was unique for them up North, and now they play in a one size fits all stadium.

 

If you wish to share your thought CB, then do, but if you have nothing good to say, don;t say anything at all. You followed me on this thread just to have a go, no, you don;t concern me, you worry me, you worry me that you're very lonely and you have no good memories, but then that's your hang up, not mine.

 

Have a good life.

[CB Fry]

Don;t you worry yourself little man, I can cope with your posts, (pats CB on the head).

 

Couple of quotes from my original post, that you feel so worthy a post to reply on and 'debate' on whilst apparrently doing something on your bedsheets, you really shouldn;t judge others by your own standards and actions, makes you look silly, any way, two quotes, one from mthe first paragraph, one from the second, the third was a conclusion:

 

"To me, this reminds me of a period in our history where we were going forward"

 

Note how I begin the sentence with "to me".

 

"we can compare ourselves to teams like Sunderland or Norwich or Portsmouth or whoever, but for me, Saints were unique."

 

Note how, just near the end, I state "for me".

 

Now I know it's difficult to read my post without trying to argue your own point and not actually what I wrote, but it's not the first time and I'm sure it won;t be the last.

 

|From what I can tell, this thread was about the past and really CB, if you have nothing to say about the past, go and post elsewhere.

 

I NEVER said anything about it being there being many glorious years at the Dell, but you and the age thing:

 

"I must have missed the glorious days of success the Dell brought us" - 1984 was quite a good year don't you think? But like you say, you must've missed it.

 

So, in conclusion, I stated that The Dell was Unique for me, I also visited the Goldstone (think that's how it was spelt) in 1978, Brighton were playing Wolves and Andy Grey was up front for Wolves. Also went to Craven Cottage when Lineaker was playing for Leicester, I had a picnic on the banks of Plough Lane when Wimbledon weren't even in the football league, but going to the Dell was Unique for me. I'm sure (from what I have heard), Roker park was unique for them up North, and now they play in a one size fits all stadium.

 

If you wish to share your thought CB, then do, but if you have nothing good to say, don;t say anything at all. You followed me on this thread just to have a go, no, you don;t concern me, you worry me, you worry me that you're very lonely and you have no good memories, but then that's your hang up, not mine.

 

Have a good life.

 

Oh, how I laughed. Seriously don't try and turn my gags about you into a weak gag at me. Pretty pathetic.

 

And I have lots of good memories, and one of the memories I have is about our fantastic cup run and league performance five or so years ago - the memories you try to rubbish ("we never played anyone good, the cup final was all a fluke" etc etc whinge whine whinge) all the time on this forum!

 

And secondly, I know you're not great for the English language, but the concept of "unique for me" is a bit of a non starter, especially when you pair it with our subsequent drop in performance, as in this quote here:

 

Dare I say it, maybe it is SMS that has taken the soul of this club away. Sure, we weren't going to survive without a move to a larger, better facilitated stadium, but, in doing so, we left behind our uniqueness! From now on, we will only ever be as good as Sunderland or Norwich, we will never be unique again, and maybe, this will lead us to be also ran's instead of the club that was everyone's favourite underdog, because at least we got behind our team, no matter the results.

 

 

So you are connecting our drop in performance with the notion that Southampton FC are not no longer unique per se but no longer unique in the eyes of John Smith?

 

You can't have it both ways. Either this is a personal feeling that as a club we aren't unique anymore (which is a perfectly reasonable feeling) or that as a club we have become less unique and suffered as a club as a result (which is an opinion which I am allowed to challenge).

 

A club can stop being "unique" (say, if Fulham moved out of the cottage). But a club can't fail because one fan thinks they are not unique any more, which is your bonkers argument.

 

That was the point I was challenging you on (we weren't that unique in the first place) and there was the opportunity to debate that.

 

Unfortunately you are too childish for that, resorted to a cheap get out (I meant to me to me to me, but of course not thinking it through) and then dished out a load of abuse.

 

And finally, well done on possibly the most **** weak selective quoting I think I have ever seen. My original sentance refered to a particular timescale of our "glory years" at the Dell. But that is barely worth a mention.

[CB Fry]

Oh, and by the way, I was saying, it was unique FOR ME.

 

This is my last contribution on this thread, but just to confirm, your original post was 100% just about your feelings about "for you" and utterly, definitely not about our uniqueness in the wider football world. No siree.

 

Here's your original post again:

 

This thread highlights the real highs and lows in Southamptons history. Some would say never look back, some say looking forward is difficult, others use the past to remind us that it's not always been about the Prem. To me, this reminds me of a period in our history where we were going forward. Like in '84, we were progressive. The thing that I find hardest to stomach is that we've seem to have lost our uniqueness.

 

we can compare ourselves to teams like Sunderland or Norwich or Portsmouth or whoever, but for me, Saints were unique. Everyone seemed to love the passion in our game. Our attacking flare as it were. Many seasons would pass where I could compete against my Arsenal or Tottenham supporting mates by betting them that we would score 50 goals before they would. Of course I would always win, but then we'd also concede 50 goals before anyone else!

 

It wasn't just about grit and determination, it wasn't about attack, attack, attack, it was about cold, wet, floodlit games at the Dell. The crowd on top of the pitch, and as one big family, cheering on, what seemed like, our boys. We have lost this, and in some way, maybe it was our success, that has brought about our downfall. Dare I say it, maybe it is SMS that has taken the soul of this club away. Sure, we weren't going to survive without a move to a larger, better facilitated stadium, but, in doing so, we left behind our uniqueness! From now on, we will only ever be as good as Sunderland or Norwich, we will never be unique again, and maybe, this will lead us to be also ran's instead of the club that was everyone's favourite underdog, because at least we got behind our team, no matter the results.

 

 

 

Excuse me while I **** myself laughing.

 

So who are these "everybody" and "everyone" people then?

 

I responded to your suggestion that we were unique in the eyes of these "everyone" and "everybody" types by saying actually we are no more unique than any other bloody clubs.

 

And I am right, and you are a muppet.

[John Smith]

This is my last contribution on this thread, but just to confirm, your original post was 100% just about your feelings about "for you" and utterly, definitely not about our uniqueness in the wider football world. No siree.

 

Here's your original post again:

 

 

 

 

 

Excuse me while I **** myself laughing.

 

So who are these "everybody" and "everyone" people then?

 

I responded to your suggestion that we were unique in the eyes of these "everyone" and "everybody" types by saying actually we are no more unique than any other bloody clubs.

 

And I am right, and you are a muppet.

 

I see I've got under your skin CB Fry, and your absolute childish manner shows you up for what you really are.

 

There is no debate here, you quite obviously have issues. I do pity you, but I will not mock you anymore, it is obviously unbalancing you.

 

You've made a good innings as a troll, but I fear for your sanity and I won't be the one to push you over the edge.

 

It's highly amusing that you believed that you were having a debate? I think this is the bit that shows you up the most. Arguing with yourself and then off loading that self loathing off onto others is very dramatic, but the childish manner in which you deflect that self loathing is very pitiful.

 

If you really are an adult, I suggest you work on your social skills a little more. Because, acting like a child having a hissy fit and throwing out playground insults is really belittling. I mean, we can all do it, but in EVERY post CB? You really do take the biscuit.

 

And I'm very glad you;re not going to say any more on the subject, I don;t think my splitting sides could take anymore.

 

P.S. The bedwetting name change, oh how I laughed. This really does show your childish insecurities, something you want to tell us CB?

[Badger]

It is incredible how in a short space of time one man can undo the work of Ted Bates and Lawrie McMenemy.

 

For all of his efforts,Ted (God bless) and Lawrie might not have existed.

 

Take a bow Rupert Lowe.