doddisalegend Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 Article in the Mirror. After doing some arcane sums some one has come up with 20 players who clubs paid to much for this summer. No saints buys on the list but apparently Morgan was the 11th most overpriced player in Europe this summer (so good job Les and co I guess). Interesting to see some signings other PL teams made as not being seen as not good value although, I guess, if those players perform well they won't be seen as over expensive. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/summer-transfer-windows-20-most-6398792 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 How do you determine a players' worth? A player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for him. Shane Long may not be "worth" £12m but he was to SFC who agreed to pay that price for him. Whether you are getting value for money is a different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 8 September, 2015 Author Share Posted 8 September, 2015 How do you determine a players' worth? A player is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for him. Shane Long may not be "worth" £12m but he was to SFC who agreed to pay that price for him. Whether you are getting value for money is a different issue. well according to the article CIES estimate transfer value by looking at a player's age, position, contract situation, international status, experience and performance. These factors are then magnified or diminished based upon the level of competition the individual is playing at, their team's results and their individual achievements. like I said it's all a bit arcane sums. If Morgan scores 40 goals this season he'd have been worth every penny (if not more). I always take these things with a pinch of salt but find them interesting anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 All the ManU fans think Morgan was a bargain but given what they've paid elsewhere that's not too surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 So Petr Cech is worth less than 4m Euros - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 So Petr Cech is worth less than 4m Euros - I was struggling to get my ahead around the method they used to calculate a players true value and then when I saw they only valued Cech at a few million I just closed the webpage. What a nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 well according to the article CIES estimate transfer value by looking at a player's age, position, contract situation, international status, experience and performance. These factors are then magnified or diminished based upon the level of competition the individual is playing at, their team's results and their individual achievements. like I said it's all a bit arcane sums. If Morgan scores 40 goals this season he'd have been worth every penny (if not more). I always take these things with a pinch of salt but find them interesting anyway. Perhaps every player should have his transfer value and wages agreed by an independent body? That would upset Levy! As you say, it makes for interesting reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 8 September, 2015 Author Share Posted 8 September, 2015 So Petr Cech is worth less than 4m Euros - One of the main criteria seems to be the players age so I'd guess any player around 30 or older will be consider less valuable due to their lack of future worth after 30 players value generally only goes downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 One of the main criteria seems to be the players age so I'd guess any player around 30 or older will be consider less valuable due to their lack of future worth after 30 players value generally only goes downhill. That is a fair point although Keepers often have a longer career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwichsaint Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 And Morgan presumably valued down because of his relative lack of international experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 well according to the article CIES estimate transfer value by looking at a player's age, position, contract situation, international status, experience and performance. These factors are then magnified or diminished based upon the level of competition the individual is playing at, their team's results and their individual achievements. like I said it's all a bit arcane sums. If Morgan scores 40 goals this season he'd have been worth every penny (if not more). I always take these things with a pinch of salt but find them interesting anyway. If you're judging Schneiderlin's contribution based on the number of goals he scores rather than chances he prevents, you're really in no position to be criticising their "sums". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 I was struggling to get my ahead around the method they used to calculate a players true value and then when I saw they only valued Cech at a few million I just closed the webpage. What a nonsense. It does seem to be utterly arbitrary - value for money can only be judged retrospectively, and even then there will be a subjective criteria over the nuances involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 Seems pretty reasonable for all but Cech to me, the algorithm clearly doesn't work for keepers who can play top flight so much longer, we got great Money for Schniederlin given his lack of European and International experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 It does seem to be utterly arbitrary - value for money can only be judged retrospectively, and even then there will be a subjective criteria over the nuances involved. I agree. The £12m on Long can only really be judged effectively when he ends his contract with us. And we can all say now what an amazing bargain Ricky was for us at just over £1m. When we signed Osvaldo we thought it was a decent signing for the money but look how that turned out. You can only know for sure if you got your money's worth when that player has provided a service, anything before is based on your expectancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Biscuits Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 79% of all statistics are made up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandy_Top_89 Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 So by these calculations, Raheem Stirling is NOT in the top 20 overpriced transfers...... (Even if he has started off really well for Citeh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 8 September, 2015 Author Share Posted 8 September, 2015 If you're judging Schneiderlin's contribution based on the number of goals he scores rather than chances he prevents, you're really in no position to be criticising their "sums". It does seem to be utterly arbitrary - value for money can only be judged retrospectively, and even then there will be a subjective criteria over the nuances involved. LOL I was using it as a silly example to make the same point you just have...... but with out the big words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 79% of all statistics are made up ..and the other 21% are actually guesswork. Statistics are usually based on the answers to questions that aren't properly thought out from the start, or correctly reported in the end. Famous quote There are lies, damn lies ..and statistics ......Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 So by these calculations, Raheem Stirling is NOT in the top 20 overpriced transfers...... (Even if he has started off really well for Citeh). ......of course not, you will have noticed that there are NO English players anywhere on that list........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldeuboi Posted 8 September, 2015 Share Posted 8 September, 2015 This is the same "Football Observatory" who had Dejan Lovren as the Premier League's best Centre-Back last season. Make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 September, 2015 Author Share Posted 9 September, 2015 This is the same "Football Observatory" who had Dejan Lovren as the Premier League's best Centre-Back last season. Make of that what you will. Best at what? conceding goals? making the most mistakes per game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 September, 2015 Author Share Posted 9 September, 2015 Found the website for these Football Observatory guys http://www.football-observatory.com/?lang=en They actually have a footballer valuing calculator so you can work out the value of any player also shows the criteria they use http://www.football-observatory.com/transfer-value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 September, 2015 Share Posted 9 September, 2015 LOL I was using it as a silly example to make the same point you just have...... but with out the big words It's not my fault you didn't pay attention at school - maybe if you had you'd have been able to actually make the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 September, 2015 Share Posted 9 September, 2015 (edited) Found the website for these Football Observatory guys http://www.football-observatory.com/?lang=en They actually have a footballer valuing calculator so you can work out the value of any player also shows the criteria they use http://www.football-observatory.com/transfer-value This is all kinds of amazing, however. Though there are a few restrictions - it seems to assume that the player is currently playing at the top level of one of the top 5 nations in UEFA even though it allows for previous seasons to be below the 4th tier, and the player has to be between 18 and 33 with a current contract (though I suppose if they don't have a contract there can't be a transfer fee so technically they have no value). Edited 9 September, 2015 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 September, 2015 Share Posted 9 September, 2015 FWIW a 33 year old striker with 3 months left on their contract in England, who hasn't scored or played in the past 4 seasons and is at a side which averages ZERO POINTS PER MATCH, has spent the entire time before this year below the 4th tier, who has never played international football, is worth 50,000 Euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 9 September, 2015 Share Posted 9 September, 2015 Their calculator seems crocked to me. Why do they have a column for league games played between 7/3/14 and 7/9/14? Why won't it let me enter a position? Why does it refuse to believe that Messi scored more than 40 goals in a season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 September, 2015 Share Posted 9 September, 2015 They talk ****e. In June they say Sterling is rated at €73.7-81.0m and then later in September they say that he was the most under-paid transfer at €63m when he had a value of €95m I see we feature 3 times in the over/under paid transfers. Morgan over by €10m Juanmi under by €7.3m Clyne under by €9.7m Clyne in his last year worth €24.5m? Sterling worth €95m?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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