The Reform Thread

[Farmer Saint]

11 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It's mad that these comments are considered controversial. Braverman is right that just because you're born in England, it doesn't make you English. My mum was born in Zimbabwe to English parents, but she's not Zimbabwean! It's nonsense.

 

Sounds like you're half-Zimbabwean to me.

Maybe you should be deported - I hear they like whites out there.

[Weston Super Saint]

13 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Sounds like you're half-Zimbabwean to me.

Maybe you should be deported - I hear they like whites out there.

Assuming his father was born in England, it would be less than a quarter..

/MLGmode

[LuckyNumber7]

3 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

How do you become English ? What are the qualifications ?

One set of my wife's grandparents was from Wales, the other from Scotland, but she and her parents were born in England. What is her nationality ?

I would say they sound English, certainly British at least, but it's more nuanced than that. Each person will have their own idea of what being English means, but it's bizarre that people are criticising Braverman for her definition of her own identity. I don't think it's outrageous to say she's not English. Would you call Erling Haaland English?

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It's almost as if the need to pigeon-hole people into neatly defined nationalities is just a pointless absurdity that has been weaponised by bigoted, intolerant people to make a political point.

I have a cousin whose father is German. He was born in England but was moved to Germany by my aunt and her husband when he was three, where he grew up and went to school before returning to the UK to go to university. So does that make him...

a) English

b) German

c) Both

d) Neither

or e) IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.

I guess national identity either matters to you or it doesn't. 

[badgerx16]

28 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Sounds like you're half-Zimbabwean to me.

Maybe you should be deported - I hear they like whites out there.

 

14 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Assuming his father was born in England, it would be less than a quarter..

/MLGmode

The One Drop Rule.

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

Each person will have their own idea of what being English means, but it's bizarre that people are criticising Braverman for her definition of her own identity. 

Braverman is entitled to define herself as she pleases, ( personally I would say she IS English, whilst she prefers "British" and also references her Asian heritage ). She is, however, wrong in denying Kemi Badenoch the right to declare her Engilshness if she so wishes.

[Osvaldorama]

12 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It's mad that these comments are considered controversial. Braverman is right that just because you're born in England, it doesn't make you English. My mum was born in Zimbabwe to English parents, but she's not Zimbabwean! It's nonsense.

 

Id go even further. 
 

To deny that someone’s ethnicity no longer exists is genocidal language. 

If an ethnicity that has existed for more than 1000 years isn’t a real ethnicity, then none are. 

Meaning the Holocaust was just a group of Germans attacking other Germans. 
 

I bet these same people defend the rights of Palestinians, or the rights of Maori’s to have a homeland in New Zealand. Yet English people are denied a homeland?

(The English have been in England longer than the Māoris have been in New Zealand btw) 

Edited 1 hour ago by Osvaldorama

[Osvaldorama]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

It's almost as if the need to pigeon-hole people into neatly defined nationalities is just a pointless absurdity that has been weaponised by bigoted, intolerant people to make a political point.

I have a cousin whose father is German. He was born in England but was moved to Germany by my aunt and her husband when he was three, where he grew up and went to school before returning to the UK to go to university. So does that make him...

a) English

b) German

c) Both

d) Neither

or e) IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.

Neo-Marxist nonsense. 
 

Words & definitions matter. Categories matter. Otherwise discourse and democracy become impossible. 

[Holmes_and_Watson]

3 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Words & definitions matter. Categories matter. Otherwise discourse and democracy become impossible. 

Of course they matter. How else are we druids going to identify all the people we shall be sweeping from our lands?! Angles, Saxons, Normans, Romans...feh!

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

Id go even further. 
 

To deny that someone’s ethnicity no longer exists is genocidal language. 

If an ethnicity that has existed for more than 1000 years isn’t a real ethnicity, then none are. 

Meaning the Holocaust was just a group of Germans attacking other Germans. 
 

I bet these same people defend the rights of Palestinians, or the rights of Maori’s to have a homeland in New Zealand. Yet English people are denied a homeland?

(The English have been in England longer than the Māoris have been in New Zealand btw) 

Nobody is denying the English national identity, other than Suella Braverman implying that Kemi Badenoch can't be English.

My issue with this whole matter is that being English has become conflated with the flag shaggers - at times I feel embarassed and ashamed of my heritage due to those utter wankers having hijacked our national symbols. My wife has a hoodie with a Saxon emblem on it but she won't wear it any more because she doesn't want to risk being associated with them.

Edited 1 hour ago by badgerx16

[Osvaldorama]

44 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Nobody is denying the English national identity, other than Suella Braverman implying that Kemi Badenoch can't be English.

My issue with this whole matter is that being English has become conflated with the flag shaggers - at times I feel embarassed and ashamed of my heritage due to those utter wankers having hijacked our national symbols. My wife has a hoodie with a Saxon emblem on it but she won't wear it any more because she doesn't want to risk being associated with them.

That’s mostly down to propaganda though, in my view. 
 

People should be proud of their heritage. Being English is something to be immensely proud of, we have done a lot of good in the world. 

Everyone should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity and background.  Doesn’t mean their background should be dismissed. 
 

Edit: also they are denying the English national identity. Or at least - denying us our right to be proud of it. 

Edited 1 hour ago by Osvaldorama

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, Osvaldorama said:

People should be proud of their heritage. Being English is something to be immensely proud of, we have done a lot of good in the world. 

At what point do immigrant families become entitled to claim "Englishness" ?

Everyone should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity and background.  Doesn’t mean their background should be dismissed. 

Agreed.

 

[Farmer Saint]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Assuming his father was born in England, it would be less than a quarter..

/MLGmode

Meh, still a fucking muggle.

[Osvaldorama]

51 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

Of course they matter. How else are we druids going to identify all the people we shall be sweeping from our lands?! Angles, Saxons, Normans, Romans...feh!

Funny how even when you’re joking you recognise that Angles/saxons/Normans/Romans existed as distinct ethnic groups. 
 

Yet suddenly the English are being told that they have none of their own.

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Osvaldorama said:

People should be proud of their heritage. Being English is something to be immensely proud of, we have done a lot of good in the world. 

This is something I've heard many times over the years - that people should feel pride over the positive historical achievements of other people who just happened to be born within the same arbitrarily defined geographical area.

You are entitled to feel that pride, of course. But by the same token, do you also feel embarrassment and shame over the many atrocities that have been carried out in the name of the King/Queen in the past? 

[Osvaldorama]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

This is something I've heard many times over the years - that people should feel pride over the positive historical achievements of other people who just happened to be born within the same arbitrarily defined geographical area.

You are entitled to feel that pride, of course. But by the same token, do you also feel embarrassment and shame over the many atrocities that have been carried out in the name of the King/Queen in the past? 

Of course. 
 

Every society (and person) does things that are both good and shameful. 
 

But in my opinion the good of the British empire FAR exceeds the negatives.

Yet we are told to focus almost exclusively on the negatives. I reject that completely.

Also… Your first paragraph is extremely dismissive of the weight of history. Countless people have fought and died for our society to be great. It’s not just a ‘random collection of people in a geographical area’

Edited 1 minute ago by Osvaldorama