Weston Super Saint Posted 5 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 February, 2009 When someone takes something really seriously and demands something is sorted out about it, it does come across a bit like you're unhappy. I think customers rights are a bit mellow dramatic in this situation. I wouldn't give someone a fiver and then expect to get all the rights and everything to go with it. Fair enough this is a business, but there is no profit to be made of it. As you can see it isn't even meeting its overheads at the moment. When I gave my £5 I saw it more of a donation to something that I've enjoyed for years and would rather pay £5 to continue doing than to lose out. Just all seems a bit pedantic to me. But that's the point isn't it? The forum appears to be a bit of a damp squib at the moment, and IMHO that is because of the divide between members and non members, and the restricted posts and lack of thread starting ability by non members. If the membership were offered as a donation - with no limit [upper or lower] - I suspect the same amount of money would still be raised, and we would have no need for this divide in members. [yes I did voice the exact same opinion when the subscriptions were first mentioned].... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 I think perhaps if people saw the amount of work that went into the forum for their £5 you wouldn't think your suggestions were being so horrendously over looked. Perhaps we should start mod work experience? There is always the option to go back to how we were before and rely on donations, however I think if we do that the future of this forum will be far less than what it is at the moment. IMO what Steve & Baj did saved the forum. Otherwise we would probably have run out of donations by now and we would have gone the same way as b-anter. but we dont know how much work goes on...one thing that was suggested (and has been suggested time and time again) was have more MODS...but that will not happen (not complaining just stating what I believe to be true)...im sure there are one or two people out there that have moderate experience with web pages to help out... as for saving this forum...there would have been another saintsforever of some description..but I do thank them for what they have done... as you say, if they dont want to go out with a begging bowl, then at the very least they can do (which steve has done) is not belittle suggestions as moaning or complaining.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 5 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 February, 2009 I think perhaps if people saw the amount of work that went into the forum for their £5 you wouldn't think your suggestions were being so horrendously over looked. Perhaps we should start mod work experience? There is always the option to go back to how we were before and rely on donations, however I think if we do that the future of this forum will be far less than what it is at the moment. IMO what Steve & Baj did saved the forum. Otherwise we would probably have run out of donations by now and we would have gone the same way as b-anter. The fact that 99% of the members who have paid don't have a problem with the way things are run, and are happy with the way things are going perhaps suggests that things aren't as doom and gloom as you may think. Well, we're not all privvy to the figures for donations and memberships and running costs etc etc, so if you'd be so kind as to lay them all out for us, then we can formulate our own opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 But that's the point isn't it? The forum appears to be a bit of a damp squib at the moment, and IMHO that is because of the divide between members and non members, and the restricted posts and lack of thread starting ability by non members. If the membership were offered as a donation - with no limit [upper or lower] - I suspect the same amount of money would still be raised, and we would have no need for this divide in members. [yes I did voice the exact same opinion when the subscriptions were first mentioned].... I agree with this. However there has got to be something more privileged about being a member than not, and at the moment I personally don't think the advertising is enough in your face for you to think euughhh I'm going to register. I visit a lot of websites that have advertising and offer to remove all the banners and stuff if you pay for a subscription, I certainly don't. I would on this site but only on the basis that I use it a lot. Your second point is also yes, a good idea. But I can think of lots of problems with that with only thinking about it for a couple of seconds. Doing that secures no sort of future. Next year if everyone knows they can donate 1p, they might do. I bought Radiohead - In Rainbows for 13p. Also, if we started that now some of the members who paid £5 might kick up a stink. The objective now is to secure the future of the forum. The only thing IMO that is realllllly going to do that, is if SFC start performing! If Keith charged everyone a fiver for SF, I think he would have made a tidy profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 Well, we're not all privvy to the figures for donations and memberships and running costs etc etc, so if you'd be so kind as to lay them all out for us, then we can formulate our own opinions I'm sure Steve could let you know the running costs. They were told when we first started out the subscriptions if you go digging, I can't remember off the top of my head though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 Both dark sotonic mills and 1 other pmd me to say that I had valid points and that if it was up to them it would be changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 5 February, 2009 Author Share Posted 5 February, 2009 I agree with this. However there has got to be something more privileged about being a member than not, and at the moment I personally don't think the advertising is enough in your face for you to think euughhh I'm going to register. I visit a lot of websites that have advertising and offer to remove all the banners and stuff if you pay for a subscription, I certainly don't. I would on this site but only on the basis that I use it a lot. Your second point is also yes, a good idea. But I can think of lots of problems with that with only thinking about it for a couple of seconds. Doing that secures no sort of future. Next year if everyone knows they can donate 1p, they might do. I bought Radiohead - In Rainbows for 13p. Also, if we started that now some of the members who paid £5 might kick up a stink. The objective now is to secure the future of the forum. The only thing IMO that is realllllly going to do that, is if SFC start performing! If Keith charged everyone a fiver for SF, I think he would have made a tidy profit. Well, we really would have a demand and supply situation then! If people feel the forum is worth saving, then they would donate. If they don't think it is worth it, then they won't, simple really. And I don't think the adverts being more in your face will drive people to pay £5, but I do think it will convince them not to come back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 Both dark sotonic mills and 1 other pmd me to say that I had valid points and that if it was up to them it would be changed You are such a b*tch Hyp :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 This will go on and on. I agree with forums being merged as suggested by many but those that have recommended the * against threads - this didn't work as people didn't respect it and as a result got banned. I paid my fiver (and will continue to do so) as S4E TSF and now SWF have given me hours of fun since 2002. Remember these guys (Steve/Baj/Mods and Admins all have full time jobs aswell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 Remember these guys (Steve/Baj/Mods and Admins all have full time jobs aswell! that is neither here nor there...get more MODS on the go then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 that is neither here nor there...get more MODS on the go then... No need at present I would say as its not that busy is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 that is neither here nor there...get more MODS on the go then... I'm almost certain that a little while ago you were kicking off a right fuss as there were 'too many mods on here'. Baj and Steve are the only guys with the proper technical no-how to keep this place up and running. The rest of us (when I was a mod) were purely used to put ideas forward, resetting the server when it crashed, and dealing with any perpetrators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 I'm almost certain that a little while ago you were kicking off a right fuss as there were 'too many mods on here'. Baj and Steve are the only guys with the proper technical no-how to keep this place up and running. The rest of us (when I was a mod) were purely used to put ideas forward, resetting the server when it crashed, and dealing with any perpetrators! i have NEVER complained at too many mods (maybe at you being a jumped up little hitler)..would love for you to show me where I have questioned the number of mods well, simple, if they are too busy (as suggested by others) then let others help...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 i have NEVER complained at too many mods..would love for you to show me where I have.. well, simple, if they are too busy (as suggested by others) then let others help...? There's no letting to be done unfortunately. Both Steve and Baj have jobs working on website development. This place wouldn't exist if they didn't. If it was a problem with the content on the site as we've experienced in the past, I'd agree with you that we should have more mods. I quit mostly because that wasn't the case and there wasn't any real need for that number of mods on here anymore and I didn't have the spare time. Ponty and Pancake have pretty much got it covered now days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 There's no letting to be done unfortunately. Both Steve and Baj have jobs working on website development. This place wouldn't exist if they didn't. If it was a problem with the content on the site as we've experienced in the past, I'd agree with you that we should have more mods. I quit mostly because that wasn't the case and there wasn't any real need for that number of mods on here anymore and I didn't have the spare time. Ponty and Pancake have pretty much got it covered now days. well, if there is not "letting to be done" when there are plenty who post regularly how have experience in such areas then the point of being too busy is not really valid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesaint sfc Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 well, if there is not "letting to be done" when there are plenty who post regularly how have experience in such areas then the point of being too busy is not really valid.. In all my days of posting on here I've not known one person with the know how to do that come forward and offer help/experience for free. I think we're somewhat going off the point anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 In all my days of posting on here I've not known one person with the know how to do that come forward and offer help/experience for free. I think we're somewhat going off the point anyway. well..if they are too busy, I bet if they "advertised" they woulg get loads of legit offers for help... again..another idea to help this place maybe..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 i'll be a mod. and im techy n stuff n rule the roost innit vblood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$$$ Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 Absolute top priority is getting the performance issues fixed - someone suggested the other day that a chat-room linked to the main board during the game would take a load off the server as there wouldn't be 650 people pressing F5 at the same time. That may well be true, but in all honesty, I reckon it would probably take less time to fix the performance issues than it would to find chat software that integrates with vBulletin, install it, test it and then open it. That would have been me. I did have a quick look myself but the main vBulletin resource wants a licence number before you can really look at the plugins. A possible one is FlashChat http://www.tufat.com/s_flash_chat_chatroom.htm which seems pretty popular and will integrate. An alternative is to just setup an IRC server/channel and put a link to a java client on the match thread. In my opinion, a chat room would be a much better experience (once people get their heads round it) as you get updates when they are typed in real time, not when you have refreshed the page. It would also stop multiple people posting the same event at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 there you go saints fc...two "techys" within an hour.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 TDD, when I said complained I put it in " so as to lessen the effect of the word. I realise that it was not complaining of the whiny-whiny sort. Also, if people are making suggestions as to changing stuff it would appear to me that they are unhappy with it remaining the same - hence "unhappy". Also, I made it pretty clear, in more than one post, that I wasn't belittling the suggestions. I don't understand why you seem to think I was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jillyanne Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 TDD, when I said complained I put it in " so as to lessen the effect of the word. I realise that it was not complaining of the whiny-whiny sort. Also, if people are making suggestions as to changing stuff it would appear to me that they are unhappy with it remaining the same - hence "unhappy". Also, I made it pretty clear, in more than one post, that I wasn't belittling the suggestions. I don't understand why you seem to think I was.... To put this into context - how many people/members have 'complained' on this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 You are such a b*tch Hyp :o He was quite happy for me to tell others about his views. I doubt he has anything to hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 That would have been me. I did have a quick look myself but the main vBulletin resource wants a licence number before you can really look at the plugins. A possible one is FlashChat http://www.tufat.com/s_flash_chat_chatroom.htm which seems pretty popular and will integrate. An alternative is to just setup an IRC server/channel and put a link to a java client on the match thread. In my opinion, a chat room would be a much better experience (once people get their heads round it) as you get updates when they are typed in real time, not when you have refreshed the page. It would also stop multiple people posting the same event at the same time. I don't think you'll ever stop that, to be honest - when Keith had the chat-room on SaintsForever, whenever there was a goal, 30-odd people would all post "GOOOOOOOOALLLLLLL!!!!!!!!1111shift+one" at the same time The rest I generally agree with, although as you say it's another thing for people to get their heads around - the forum principle was hard enough to comprehend for a lot of people initially! Ideally, I'd love to be able to set up match threads to automatically refresh via AJAX, but I suspect that *would* completely kill the server Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 I think perhaps if people saw the amount of work that went into the forum for their £5. I got his far into your post and had to stop because that's nonsense. The modding is the difficult job, the actual setting up of the forum is not difficult for someone with a reasonable amount of ability. Basically all you need to do is make a banner, create a few sub forums (The Saints, The lounge etc) and select a few preferences. The only difficult bit was getting it so registered members could only make 3 posts and that didn't exactly take weeks to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 5 February, 2009 Share Posted 5 February, 2009 Could we not have a totally seperate webpage hosting a matchday chat service, possibly with a link on the main bored and on the saintweb home page, opening hours during matches only etc, maybe something along the lines of http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/matchdaychat or something. Pretty easy to do i'm sure for men of Steve and Bazza's abilities. Just an idea, any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Post-it note Posted 6 February, 2009 Share Posted 6 February, 2009 Could we not have a totally seperate webpage hosting a matchday chat service, possibly with a link on the main bored and on the saintweb home page, opening hours during matches only etc, maybe something along the lines of www.saintsweb.co.uk/matchdaychat or something. Pretty easy to do i'm sure for men of Steve and Bazza's abilities. Just an idea, any thoughts? An excellent idea, however Baj and Steve have spent all the subscribtion money adopting a family of meerkats and a years supply of fake moustaches, there are no funds left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 6 February, 2009 Share Posted 6 February, 2009 Compare the meerkat.com? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baj Posted 7 February, 2009 Share Posted 7 February, 2009 It's ironic that the same people that want us to take their suggestions seriously are the same people that openly insult us on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 February, 2009 Share Posted 7 February, 2009 It's ironic that the same people that want us to take their suggestions seriously are the same people that openly insult us on the forum. I called you an arrogant arsehole once but then apologised. I have no problem with you lot but think it would serve you well to listen to the views of your customers a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_stevo Posted 7 February, 2009 Share Posted 7 February, 2009 It's ironic that the same people that want us to take their suggestions seriously are the same people that openly insult us on the forum. Dont think personal opinions should come into it. maybe that is part of the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 February, 2009 Share Posted 7 February, 2009 It's ironic that the same people that want us to take their suggestions seriously are the same people that openly insult us on the forum. I can imagine rupert saying the same thing in the boardrom whilst reading this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$$$ Posted 8 February, 2009 Share Posted 8 February, 2009 I don't think you'll ever stop that, to be honest - when Keith had the chat-room on SaintsForever, whenever there was a goal, 30-odd people would all post "GOOOOOOOOALLLLLLL!!!!!!!!1111shift+one" at the same time The rest I generally agree with, although as you say it's another thing for people to get their heads around - the forum principle was hard enough to comprehend for a lot of people initially! Ideally, I'd love to be able to set up match threads to automatically refresh via AJAX, but I suspect that *would* completely kill the server Scrap what I said about Flashchat, looks like there are lots of problems with v5.x. Interesting you mentioned AJAX as I found this one as well http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=201283 which uses it. There is at least one post moaning about server loads however... It's ironic that the same people that want us to take their suggestions seriously are the same people that openly insult me on the forum. Corrected for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 8 February, 2009 Share Posted 8 February, 2009 Compare the meerkat.com? Simples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFC Forever Posted 9 February, 2009 Share Posted 9 February, 2009 I am relatively new to this site as I didn't pay my fiver till I got fed up not being able to have discussions with people because of the three post rule. There are still a lot of places on here that I have not visited. Some indeed that I may never visit. I actually came over originally through one of Baj's old adversaries SaintMike. Along with two or three others I have come and stayed. I find that at times it is still possible for one to have some good banter. It is also a good place to keep up with what is going on. There are a few takers of the Michael but wherever you get a large group you expect a good variety of opinion. Overall I am happy enough with most of the threads that I have seen. A few notable posters who are always winding up others but it doesn't take long to figure them out. All in all ,for a fiver I have had a few good chuckles and a few moments of wanting to rant and rave. A good mix in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 9 February, 2009 Share Posted 9 February, 2009 I am relatively new to this site as I didn't pay my fiver till I got fed up not being able to have discussions with people because of the three post rule. There are still a lot of places on here that I have not visited. Some indeed that I may never visit. I actually came over originally through one of Baj's old adversaries SaintMike. Along with two or three others I have come and stayed. I find that at times it is still possible for one to have some good banter. It is also a good place to keep up with what is going on. There are a few takers of the Michael but wherever you get a large group you expect a good variety of opinion. Overall I am happy enough with most of the threads that I have seen. A few notable posters who are always winding up others but it doesn't take long to figure them out. All in all ,for a fiver I have had a few good chuckles and a few moments of wanting to rant and rave. A good mix in my book. You missed out on the good times of a few years back mate. Then it was free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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