CB Fry

If he's doing that badly and Davies moves him on in Jan its unlikely to be for a profit so it wouldn't matter if we have a sell on clause or not.

Go on then - what on earth happened to Theo in these "tender years" at Saints that have so wrecked his career just the, errr, three and a half years later then? And he signed for Arsenal when he was SIXTEEN so barely even an adult, meaning plenty of his "tender years" were spent at Arsenal. But of course he didn't have Rupert Lowe kicking him in the shins every morning at London Colney. I can't remember a word said about him playing any more than any other promising youth player, but you obviously know different. Do tell. I've got my foot in my mouth, have I - you're just making stuff up.

My comment about their pitiful fanbase was followed up (in the same sentence) with the line "they would have gone out of business anyway". It's not a personal judgment about how small I think their fanbase is, its economics. So AFC Wimbledon would have had to have been formed anyway. Milton Keynes deserves a mid ranking second-third tier football club and "deserve" to be in the league as much as Everton, Arsenal, Burnley, Southampton and pretty much every other club in the country who never ever got promoted into the football league, just selected by greasing the right palms or slapping the right backs in the smoke filled rooms at the turn of the century. But do I like them because the amount of po-faced holier than thou preaching I read and hear against them. Oh yes, Oh yes I do. 10,000 fans, a great chairman investing in the team and backing his managers, a promotion and a trophy win - one more promotion than Arsenal have ever ever achieved - and a community united behind a football club. Isn't that what football is supposed to be about?

MK Dons don't want any of the history of Wimbledon and make no claim on it, in fact they waived all holding over it a couple of years back. The fans of the original Wimbledon deserted their club in droves and droves and droves even before the Dublin stuff was mooted. They would have gone bust anyway. They spent far too long whining about how far away their home ground was, but it was about five miles away from Plough Lane. It's like Saints losing 15,000 fans because Leibherr builds a new stadium in Totton. Milton Keynes is sustaining a football club and with average gates of 10,000 you could say they deserve a league football club more than, say, Stockport or Hartlepool, neither of which have ever been promoted into the league, they were just let in. Much like the vast majority of English football clubs. This idea that every club have strived through the pyramid is total fallacy, barely any have, Saints included. Almost every pro club in existance has been invited to join the league. Fair play to Winkleman and MK Dons for breaking down the closed shop. More power to them.

I've forgiven them. Wimbledon had a pitiful fanbase for a top flight club and would have gone out of business anyway. It wouldn't ever have happened to Saints so all this "it could be you next" garbage is meaningless. I like MK Dons because they **** off the When Saturday Comes po-faced Chorley-ites of this world. Winkleman has done a superb job building a successful club in the face of a lot of adversity and they have a decent and growing fanbase. I'd love it if they got promoted this season (but not at our expense of course).

What "years"? He played half a season for us and then sat in Arsenal's reserves for half a season.

No it won't, just the usual *****s smugly droning on about Ted Bates. At the end of the day Pardew is delivering instant success, not "he needs three years before anyone can expect anything" claptrap we hear from Sadoldgit and the rest of the pompous farts.

If you read Lawrie's column he was in the frame for every job going. But he didn't get the Man U job, did he? At the end of the day he never managed a big club and was a failure at every other job he did away from Saints. That's why he isn't high up the all time list. Bobby Robson, Venables, Atkinson even Graham Taylor had Lawrie-like success at small clubs on small budgets but they all moved on and achieved bigger things at bigger clubs or internationally. Still our best ever manager and acheived a hell of a lot but just not that high up the all-time list for me.

As soon as he came on he looked far to good for this division. If Him and lambert click (It looked like they will) then a) we'll be awesome and b) hello 442 old friend.

Well not really. There are plenty of other managers who achieved beyond their wage bill - lawrie is hardly unique in that. And anyway didn't he get a big budget at sunderland and he failed. There's a lot of whining about unfair comparison but you and others are intentionally avoiding talking about the totality of his career which contained failure and huge swathes of time out of work or in non jobs. The fact that lawrie didn't get a big big club is a reason why he is NOT an all time great, not an excuse for why he is.

No it isn't. Lawrie frankly is good but not that good. Nineteen Canteen is a wind up merchant and you shouldn't raise to the bait but to say comparisons to fine, fine football men like Hodsgon and Jimmy Armfield as an "insult" to Lawrie is an "insult" to those men whose acheivements stand up against Lawrie any day of the week, if not better. Ron Atkinson's record at four clubs (not just one) blows Lawrie clean out of the water. Too many rose-tinted specs, I fear.

Kenny Dalglish won the league with two different clubs. That is better than anything Lawrie acheived. Ron Atkinson acheived significant success at West Brom, Villa, Sheff Weds and Man United. That is better than anything Lawrie acheived who had success at one club only and failed everywhere else. Ron Greenwood errr built the team with "the greatest English players ever" and got appointed Englan manager, not England assistant manager. That is better than anything Lawrie acheived. Mourinho not as good as Lawrie McMenemy. What "massive spend" did he have when Porto won the Champion's League then? Jimmy Armfield got to the final of the European Cup with Leeds.That is better than anything Lawrie acheived. Moyes is probably as close to a McMenemy level of achievement - ie solid league placings - but the style is different of course. Lawrie did well for us but no way in the top twenty of all time in England. Quick mention for two Villa managers - Ron Saunders who won the European Cup and Graham Taylor who achieved Lawrie-like success with Saints-like Watford but built on it at a big club with Villa and then appointed England manager, with Lawrie as assistant of course. And then made a comeback with Watford again. The big difference is the greatest managers have success at one club, but repeat it elsewhere. Lawrie was brilliant for us is a one club wonder in the great scheme of things.

Sorry, but I think Naive flatters Jan. I think he was simply an idiot, and that's mainly because in his interview a few weeks back he claimed to not realise how high the standard of football the second tier in England was before he took the job. Frankly that was inexcusible - he was taking a job at a decent sized club in the fifth biggest league in Europe. If someone offered me a job in the, say, Egyptian first division, I know nothing about it now, but I'd bloody find out before I got on the plane*. Lowe was pigheaded and foolish and Jan's appointment was a disgrace, but Jan was no innocent victim. He is a grown man with two decades football experience behind him. His abject failure with us cannot just be attributed to others.

He was sacked from Wycombe. But this is an incredibly good shout. Taylor is pretty good at getting promoted from L2 so would be a good appointment for them.

Do you honestly believe Exeter or Yeovil have anything like the resources we have to hand? Your "law of averages" - win a third, draw a third, lose a third - is ridiculous in that we have the most expensively assembled squad, and easily the most expensive back room staff in the entire division. We should be pushing for something like 1.6 to 2 points per game for the rest of the season - ie play-off form to get us upper mid table. And its not about disrespecting other clubs - we are just bigger than them. And I'd bet my house that when the boot was on the other foot - when we were the skint team in the CCC or in the Prem - you were bleating about "how-can-we-possibly-compete-we're-skint" etc etc. Well you can't have it both ways - if it's a disadvantage to be poor, it's an advantage to be rich. And we are rich in many ways. And we need to do better than win a third, draw a third.

Two eh? A whole two? Two whole people? When are they going to march on SMS I wonder? Those two were easily outnumbered by the "we nearly didn't have a club to support/Lawrie Mac/blah/blah/etc/etc" dull brigade. And one of those two said he never wanted him which is a consistent and reasonable view to hold - he had effectively just relegated Charlton who he was supposed to be taking into the Prem. I think people like that are allowed to have doubts. So that's one person then. Everyone else is saying - if we are doing as appalling as this (three weeks ago) by Christmas then yep, we do seriously need to look at it. A perfectly reasonable viewpoint. A viewpoint confirmed by our recent upsurge - we are now fixing the issues and we will charge up the table. Meaning the "impatient" people are right and the "stick with the manager" dullards are wrong. Pardew will deliver instant results. This season. Just like people like me said. Not the "oh he needs two and a half seasons before any of us can ever judge him after all look at Ted Bates and Lawrie got us relegated and etc etc etc blah blah etc blah...." Pardew doesn't want two seasons of Ted Bates failure before he gets going. Pardew is a winner and will deliver instantly and Pards I'd wager would agree with that sentiment on this thread more than he will the pensioners who think any manager needs to be rubbish for two years before achieving anything. Go up to Alan Pardew and tell him you wouldn't mind if he relegates us this season after all Lawrie did and Ted Bates etc etc. Tell me what he says back to you. Because he aint planning for no relegation. He wants results today. Pardew is as impatient as the fans you attack on here. Don't forget it.

Fair dos. But its also fair to say if we do lose 5-0 at Oldham the people expressing displeasure will be out numbered by the arse-aching bore-monkeys who seem to think even the smallest grumble about the worst defeat needs to be greeted with the old "Lawrie got relegated in his first season blah blah blah" routine. People like SOG are determined to imagine into existance some Pardew out lobby that simply is not there. If we lose 5-0 at Oldham absolutely everyone has the right to question whether Pardew is up to the job, much like if we win 5-0 we can all talk about storming the playoffs and "how would we do in the CCC next season". But we do not need to hear the "stick with the manager" bore-a-thon over and over again. We get it, shut up already. (not you Marco )

Two questions. Who are these four or five people in your opinion? And who at this moment in time have "turned on" Pardew?

As someone who was made redundant from the local newspaper game three years ago this comes as absolutely no surprise. Local papers have been dying its arse for the last decade, and the credit crunch has only made a dire situation even worse. The sports papers of any local daily doesn't really make much money - a little bit of cover price revenue and to prop up the circulation numbers of the sister paper, there is no stand alone advertising. Throw in the additional shifts for journos, printers, van drivers, the processing of returns, the tiny selling window (basically two hours Sat night, little bit Sunday am) the fact that one press breakdown Sat night can kill sales by more than half. It's an easy cut. It sounds like the Saints Pink is a Sunday-only product now already, which has already killed its one and only point of difference. At their best they are one of the better examples of a local daily delivering a service to its readers and its community as opposed to a shell of a "supplement" designed to shift some advertising space. But they are a pain and don't deliver much back. It wouldn't surprise me if The Southern Daily Echo, in the next five years, becomes either twice/thrice-weekly, or a free paper doled out to people on the Number 17 bus in the afternoon.

Twelve wins and eleven draws in 34 games is 47 points, 1.3 points per game, the kind of form that would get us about 17th/18th - lower mid table form. For the backroom staff and the team we'd expensively assembled, that would be pretty disgraceful form - we shouldn't be aiming to be "average" from now on. Not sure we should be benchmarking ourselves against what Exeter and Yeovil are looking to achieve.

There's not enough of these in the world :rolleyes: to respond to garbage posts like the one above. Whose "morale" is being "sapped" by a few hairy bottomed blokes on an interenet forum? Give me strength. :rolleyes: If we all post "come on saints, we loves yous" will we defitely win 5-0 on Saturday? :rolleyes: This, is the true spirit of this thread, beautifully summed up here: There never was an AP out campaign, not on this thread, not on this forum, not ever. One or two fans maybe (one or two fans didn't rate him on day one, and they're allowed to) but vastly vastly outnumbered by the twittering old women like SOG and Windmill Arm droning on about Alex Ferguson-Ted Bates-Lawrie-etc-etc-etc-etc and making out they are lone voices shouting against some baying mob. Total delusional guff. There never was a "Pardew out" campaign.

Call me an old slag, but I'm back with you again. To be fair to me I did say we should be aiming for the play offs (ie Championship winning form) all summer and up until we lost to Rovers when it just looked mathmatically impossible and, I admit it, I wobbled. I now think we are going to go on one of those 22 out of 24 points type runs. It is clicking very, very nicely. But I was talking about play offs all summer while the supposed "realists" were bleating on about scraping survival. We're going to do it. I'm going to Oldham for first away game of the season and cannot wait.

The usual utter tripe from one of the most one-eyed contributors to this site. There was and is no Pardew out campaign, just self important ar se-wipes boring us all with the "McMenemy got us relegated, Alex Ferguson three years blah blah blah etc etc etc" routine the minute anyone says anything outside of "aren't Saints brilliant". No one on this thread (indeed this board) wanted Pardew out, except maybe Glasgow Saint. Certainly not the original poster. The bores like you with your bo ll ock achingly obvious "we need to stick with the manager" routine outnumbered the people who want Pardew out by about 75 to one. No one needed a patronising king tedious like you telling us to "stick with the manager" eight,nine, ten games into a bloody season. Everyone was sticking with him and didn't need your bloody permission. Shut. up. No one wants Pardew out, and no one did two weeks ago. And you are not going to come on here with your self satisfied smug routine making out you were some lone voice in the wilderness. No one wanted Pardew out.

I have son. There was and there is no Pardew out campaign. You read what you want to read.

No it wasn't - this is just a fantasy in your head. There never was (or is) some great Pardew out campaign. Please stop pretending otherwise.