Robsk II

Nope, I had pointd this out earlier.

I think "overblown" and "ill-informed" would be better adjectives. If you look at it, many people clearly don't know the facts. It's obviously the case. The concerns are ok, but the level to which some have them does suggest they don't actually know much about it other than what they've heard in over sensationalised reports etc.

Dicko, the thing that you and others entirely fail to see is that myself and many other 'liberals' also have absolutely no time at all for bogus asylum claims, illegal immigrants sponging, etc etc. All I'm saying is that I feel it's less of a real issue than most people realise. Just because I have a more liberal view, that doesn't actually mean I actually wish to give people a free ride, promote extremism, and so on. Those kind of views are just.. odd.

The thing is, I for one totally recognise that, and consider it unacceptable and callous. I just don't judge them all as a result. Also, it's very hard to know who is and is not genuinely seeking asylum. I'd rather have a few fakers than send anyone back to die, to be honest. Put simply, if I thought it would save a life, genuinely, I would give up half of my bedroom to a partition wall and an immigrant. Seriously. That's not being loony left, in my opinion. It's just being a half decent human being. I wonder how much we actually pay, pe person, per year, to support A) All immigrant benefits B) All domestic benefits C) the spongers in each class. I'll bet it isn't that much when it comes down to it, and actually, I'd also pay more tax willingly if I genuinely thought it would save some peoples lives for sure every year - as long as I could still live and be OK. It all fits in with other issues though, like other weird taxes, irresponsible profit margins from gas and food companies, etc. We'd be able to afford to give up more quite easily and still be comfortable if big companies didn't fleece us quite so much. The fact that many 'should' seek asylum clsoer to home is also true, but on a human level, you can surely understand them wanting to come here. I don't blame them for that. Maybe they shouldn't do it, but I can't hate them for it.

There are some valid points there Dicko, thanks for bothering to be clearer. There is of course a limit to the extent we can support people. This is irrefutable fact. Economically and physically. Some immigrants and asylum seekers do of course choose here for bad reasons. Also irrefutable. But I personally believe some choose it because it is seen as a good place, and I think that's cool. Some also know there are other pre-existing ethnic communities here, being such a diverse place as we are, and good or not, I can understand that. I would also argue that we certainly don't have to support all immigrants by any means. I think that's just a long way from the truth. Also, I would still argue that i resent natives who sponge of the state at least as much, and that it's a bigger problem - and often conducted more cynically.

Well apparently not. Delldays, if you actually read what I say properly, surely you can't disagree? There IS a difference between those classifications. Why bother to imply there isn't? I'm not being unreasonable. Far from it. Surely you must be intelligent enough to realise that some views, if not backed up or based on fact, are a whole lot less valid than others? How is that some kind of mind-fascism on my part? It's just bloody obvious fact. "I think submarines are yellow fish." That is not a valid viewpoint. It's an opinion I'm entitled to, but it totally lacks and substance, backing, consideration, information. As such, it would not be taken seriously by most people, and cetainly not in any sensible debate. Are you going to bother to even take 1 second to try to see what I mean?

I actually do advocate a mandatory part time work scheme etc for people who are just sponging on JSA. Of course it's hard to tell, but either way, if they are ABLE to work, but jus struggle to find opportunities, maybe they should put something back into the nation that supplies them, very kindly, with benefits. Maybe after a certain amount of time, or if the person is clearly able to work, then sure, make them do something positive for the country and community. Not entirely sure about the jackets. Part of me says good deterrent, and a way of them being able to link what they are doing to the commuity conscience etc - but I also believe in rehabilitation, at least as a concept, though it's not always that easy.. and making offenders feel even less engaged, more resentful etc, could be damaging. I guess I think it would work well with some criminals and just make things worse with others, in short. A tricky one.

Legal immigrants are nationals from other countries coming here with permission, legitimately, paperwork etc all done. Illegal immigrants are national from other countries coming here without permission, via illegal means, inhabiting the country unofficially and in a manner that is against the law. Asylum seekers are nationals from other countries coming here seeking a place of safety, applying to stay officially, due to persecution in their own land and perhaps nations local to them. They may be at risk of death, violence,jail, prejudice etc, due to their beliefs, lifestyle, ethnicity, resistance to their nations government, etc. Many will have had very difficult situations previously; some will have already suffered, some will have lost their parents, families, etc. How anyone can fail to see how fundamentally different these things are is beyond me. Delldays, I can see that mindless vehemence and prejudice against the BNP is perhaps not very constructive, and simple serves to further polarise matters. But when I say retarded, what I mean is in cases where people don't even know what they are talking about. Some views ARE retarded, genuinely not worthy of being called valid, being based on nothing at all factual or real. In these cases, I think everyone else does have a right to ridiucle views, to be honest, particularly if they are negative towards a group. It's sort of a social reaction to that.

Thing is delldays, it's very hard to debate about views that are simply retarded. Dickos above is a good example. There is a huge, marked, and entirely profound difference between asylum seekers and immigrants, legal or otherwise. Anyone who resents genuine asylum seekers is a heartless fool if they understand what that means, and I for one am actually proud - here's MY patriotism - that many recognise the UK as the kind of tolerant, liberal place that will protect those in need of it.

Thay are cabalists.

Why have they been phoning you? Did they get the ticket office number wrong?

Indeed. Stanley, do you genuinely not realise that those who sympathise with, much less actively participate with or support, al qaeda, in tis country, represent a tiny, tiny minority? There were Pakistani immigrants here 50 years ago also.

6-3.

My point is more that a lot of morons seem to associate all this with Labour and the left as a concept, and in reality, it would be erroneous to do so, IMO.

Had a go. Intense as ****, admittedly. It's a good blast, really. Some nice moments as expected. I have to say that whilst the graphics are good, I always feel there is something missing with COD4 and this, too. Just a bit.. cartoony. Or something. It's like a modernised COD2 in terms of design, rather than a next-gen feeling thing. I think the next COD should use the same concepts in terms of engine - lighting etc - but seriously consider a different stylistic approach maybe? Can't put my finger on it. Some of it looks fine, but.. just something.

The mistake some make, though, BS, is to assume this has something to do with Labour. ****, the labour party has nothing to do with what labour was. I totally agree some civil freedoms etc have been eroded and taken away, sometimes by stealth, and it's awful. I would honestly ask people to consider though - do yout honestly think the Tories wouldn't have done the same? Even if they condemn it in part now, that's only because of the stupid reactionary politicking we have here now. I have every expectation they'd have gone further, to be honest.

Some band played a fairly decent cover of Whiskey in the jar last night. I was in the pub, and had been forced into that worst of things, a mid-night-out ****. My mood was lightened considerably by this track. The singer was no Phil, but, as I say, it helped me curl one out in a more agreeable mood.

Excellent.

I quite like Deerhunters new album. Deathcabs was good. Bon Ivers was good. Bonnie prince billy's was decent but no showstopper. Why?'s Alopecia is quality.

I wasn't being entirely serious about my Solano guess, sarcasm fans.

Nobbie Salane

Exactly.