verlaine1979

Two things made me speak up about Davis. Firstly, when everyone in the entire world starts describing him as the most underrated player in the league, the whole invisible underdog thing gets a bit ridiculous, especially as he's underrated primarily because he never scores and rarely produces assists. Secondly, around this time last year he began losing the ball far more than he ever had before (the City home game in Nov was the start of it I think). This sloppiness in possession continues unabated (recent examples include against Spurs and Palace, leading to goals in both instances). When the creative weakness of your most attacking central midfielder is mainly excused because of his work rate and defensive capabilities, regularly giving up goal scoring opportunities to the opposition seems like it would be a problem for most, but there's a blind spot where this player is concerned. On a personal note, the fact that he mainly loses the ball while turning to face his own goal in search of a more conservative backwards pass is just the crowning irritation. If you're going to give it away, at least be trying to do something with it rather than just being caught while passing responsibility on to someone else.

Nah, thought he did okay (as I've said before when his performances haven't been sub-par). He didn't give the ball away stupidly as he did against Spurs and Palace (only the most recent examples), and he even broke beyond the strikers a couple of times, which he doesn't do anything like often enough for an attacking midfielder. All in all, a perfectly competent performance, though others (Romeu in particular) shone brighter last night. Contrary to the childish imaginings of some on this board, there's no vendetta. I just think that 9 times out of 10, he trudges through games without ever really making a decisive attacking contribution, which I find unacceptable for someone who is meant to be the creative fulcrum of a side aspiring to the top six.

Somebody has been doing extra crossing practice.

I never went away. Oddly enough, you're the one who only ever seems to appear when Davis' name is taken in vain...

Blimey, just seen the highlights - first goal was 100% down to Davis' failure of composure and technique. All he was trying to do was play a very simple wall pass back to Yoshida under a modicum of pressure, but he messed it up completely and managed to put Puncheon through on goal from inside the Crystal Palace half! (As others have noted, pretty much a carbon copy of his mistake against Spurs a few games ago). I think it's almost a certainty that had any other player in the squad made that same error, there would be threads calling for a lynching, but once again our plucky midfield general gets a mystifying pass.

Apparently the club has a prevailing philosophy that is meant to ensure seamless movement from the youth teams to the first team, and provide continuity when there are changes of manager. Based on everything that was said when Poch started making headlines, this philosophy revolves around a style of football based on a progressive, sophisticated approach that venerates technical ability and tactical flexibility (playing from rather than in positions) above the English sacred cows of getting stuck in and getting it forward. I don't really care who comes next as long as it someone committed to this approach, but that means I doubt we're going to find them in the UK, and they should probably be 40 or under...

Solent commentator also said it was Davis in his round-up fwiw.

Can you really be said to dictate games in which you fail to create more than 1 or 2 meaningful chances? Only listened to this game, so perhaps our 5 shots on target were all going in barring exceptional saves from Hennessey, but in general, over this poor run of games (and further back in fact, a few unrepresentative results aside) we've been toothless in attack and created mostly half chances snatched at by players not renowned for the efficiency of their finishing. Dictating possession without laying a glove on the opposition is the very definition of propaganda football.

He's got two in the Europa League as well, though I did acknowledge his return this season is worse (I also suggested him as a bargain basement Mane replacement, not as my preferred #10 option). That said, last season Sisto scored 8 in the league. Remind me, over the course of the season (and a half) before this one, how many goals did our much derided midfielder score?

Pione Sisto from Midgetland looked like a decent player in the two qualifier games, though I note his goals return this season is comparatively weak. Would definitely fit the 6m replacement mark...

He'd an exciting player, but when we played Palace, I thought both Bolasie and Zaha put in performances that were markedly more dominant than any individual game I've seen Mane play for us. Maybe they both had season highs when we played, but it seems unlikely...

First half Norwich spurned a couple of very good positions (the 2 on 1 they had after VVD gave it away in particular) to match Long's fluffed chances. We probably edged the first half on possession and Long's 1 on 1 with the keeper, but it was hardly a dominant performance, unless the meaning of 'dominant' has changed significantly over the new year? We've been a dull, predictable attacking force throughout 2015, barring one or two misleading high points. A better finisher would convert a greater number of the snap-shots and half chances being spurned by Pelle and now Long, but let's not kid ourselves that we're tearing sides apart barring the application of a finishing touch.

Pass, pass, pass, cross, clearing header. Repeat.

Out of interest, where would Davis/#10 come in your list of priorities for where the first 11 needs strengthening/replacements? As far as I can see, the only possible argument you could make is that we need a first choice right back more, and even that would probably be a hasty claim considering Cedric has only had half a season to bed in. Otherwise this is the main position where we've been lacking genuine first 11 quality for at least two seasons now, which makes the general Davis love-in on here a bit odd.

To be perfectly honest I saw no qualitative difference between before and after he went off. First twenty aside we were a shambles the whole match, and created our best chance right at the death with Davis long gone.

But he's so important to the way we play!

The second half of Poch's last season I felt we'd started to become a bit stale in attack, then last season, if you discount the two freak results against Sunderland and Villa (neither of which look remotely like recurring this season) and expand our 36 game average over the whole season, you end up with 42 goals. This would have placed us 14/15 in the league for goals scored, which to me is a fairer reflection of the attacking potency of a team whose top scorer had a 20 hour barren streak, and who only managed 1 goal in 5 matches in February. Perhaps I'm wrong about Pochettino's team falling off towards the end of the season, but even if that's true, the three primary goalscorers of that team aren't playing for us anymore.

Yup, gone are the days of playing from a position rather than in a position - Koeman has obviously instructed the wide players to stick rigidly to the touchline. Among other things, surely this means our attacking approach is completely telegraphed.

A few people on the match thread thought it was him who gave it away for the first goal, but it was Davis, which might explain some of the more overtly negative reviews. I thought he did okay first half, playing some good first time through balls to the attackers, but like the rest of the team, he was pretty much invisible second half until he was subbed.

Watching Dembele and Eriksen yesterday (and Kane and Lamela when they dropped deep) it was really apparent how many more players Spurs had who were willing and able to run with the ball past an opponent. Same with Watford just now. Perhaps it's just the case that after a few years of teams being caught out by pressing and pound-shop tiki taka, equilibrium has returned and once again you need match-winners if you want to win matches?

Let's be under no illusions here. Spurs completely soft-pedalled the second half, and could've pushed for more goals if they'd cared to. Dembele and Eriksen drove through our midfield seemingly at will. We fluffed our two presentable chances, but we didn't deserve a draw and probably wouldn't have got one even if Mane and JWP scored.

To answer my own question from the match thread, it was Davis who gave it away for the first, not Clasie (Clasie slid in for one of the ineffectual challenges).

Was it Davis or Clasie that gave it away for the first goal?

Come on, he shouldn't have tried beating Sterling so close to his own penalty area, knowing that if he lost the ball he would be completely outmatched for pace. That should be obvious to any player with a modicum of common/footballing sense. You rarely even see players like Iniesta trying to shimmy round an opponent on the edge of their own box, so a specialist defender should know to play the percentages in that position regardless of whether they're covering at fullback or not. Mistakes in position, you have a point, but mistakes on the ball like this cannot be excused in the same way.

Absolutely right re: his mistakes. Perhaps you can forgive his positional errors when playing RB, but he's made just as many basic footballing mistakes which are inexcusable wherever you are on the pitch. And it's not as if he's flawless when playing in his preferred position, as it was his poor clearing header that directly led to the Palace goal on Saturday.