verlaine1979

Out of interest, where would Davis/#10 come in your list of priorities for where the first 11 needs strengthening/replacements? As far as I can see, the only possible argument you could make is that we need a first choice right back more, and even that would probably be a hasty claim considering Cedric has only had half a season to bed in. Otherwise this is the main position where we've been lacking genuine first 11 quality for at least two seasons now, which makes the general Davis love-in on here a bit odd.

To be perfectly honest I saw no qualitative difference between before and after he went off. First twenty aside we were a shambles the whole match, and created our best chance right at the death with Davis long gone.

But he's so important to the way we play!

The second half of Poch's last season I felt we'd started to become a bit stale in attack, then last season, if you discount the two freak results against Sunderland and Villa (neither of which look remotely like recurring this season) and expand our 36 game average over the whole season, you end up with 42 goals. This would have placed us 14/15 in the league for goals scored, which to me is a fairer reflection of the attacking potency of a team whose top scorer had a 20 hour barren streak, and who only managed 1 goal in 5 matches in February. Perhaps I'm wrong about Pochettino's team falling off towards the end of the season, but even if that's true, the three primary goalscorers of that team aren't playing for us anymore.

Yup, gone are the days of playing from a position rather than in a position - Koeman has obviously instructed the wide players to stick rigidly to the touchline. Among other things, surely this means our attacking approach is completely telegraphed.

A few people on the match thread thought it was him who gave it away for the first goal, but it was Davis, which might explain some of the more overtly negative reviews. I thought he did okay first half, playing some good first time through balls to the attackers, but like the rest of the team, he was pretty much invisible second half until he was subbed.

Watching Dembele and Eriksen yesterday (and Kane and Lamela when they dropped deep) it was really apparent how many more players Spurs had who were willing and able to run with the ball past an opponent. Same with Watford just now. Perhaps it's just the case that after a few years of teams being caught out by pressing and pound-shop tiki taka, equilibrium has returned and once again you need match-winners if you want to win matches?

Let's be under no illusions here. Spurs completely soft-pedalled the second half, and could've pushed for more goals if they'd cared to. Dembele and Eriksen drove through our midfield seemingly at will. We fluffed our two presentable chances, but we didn't deserve a draw and probably wouldn't have got one even if Mane and JWP scored.

To answer my own question from the match thread, it was Davis who gave it away for the first, not Clasie (Clasie slid in for one of the ineffectual challenges).

Was it Davis or Clasie that gave it away for the first goal?

Come on, he shouldn't have tried beating Sterling so close to his own penalty area, knowing that if he lost the ball he would be completely outmatched for pace. That should be obvious to any player with a modicum of common/footballing sense. You rarely even see players like Iniesta trying to shimmy round an opponent on the edge of their own box, so a specialist defender should know to play the percentages in that position regardless of whether they're covering at fullback or not. Mistakes in position, you have a point, but mistakes on the ball like this cannot be excused in the same way.

Absolutely right re: his mistakes. Perhaps you can forgive his positional errors when playing RB, but he's made just as many basic footballing mistakes which are inexcusable wherever you are on the pitch. And it's not as if he's flawless when playing in his preferred position, as it was his poor clearing header that directly led to the Palace goal on Saturday.

Isn't the heart of the issue that we promote ourselves as having an incredible, technically advanced scouting department, and yet rather than unearthing a Vardy or Arnautovic or some unknown who would represent great value for money, we ended up overpaying for a journeyman of limited talent? It's not that Long himself is a problem player (surely everyone knew exactly what he is capable of, and his contribution will have surprised no one), but that his signing undermines everyone's belief that the 'black box' is anything other than the same old collection of scouts in a room with more tv screens.

I assumed he was talking about Yoshida's weak clearing header that went straight to (I think) Cabaye to start the Palace move.

Both Zaha and Bolasie looked several cuts above our attackers today in their ability to take on opponents and open up space.

Yup, leaving aside the question of whether you really want your central creative player's most visible skill to be defensive harrying, there were plenty of instances last season (particularly from December on) when SD was a positive liability both in surrendering possession and marking the opposition.

Campbell has been great for Arsenal tonight.

Davis has made or scored 17 goals playing 8308 minutes, equalling a contribution every 488.7 minutes. Over the same period JWP has made or scored 13 (mostly made, natch) in 4365 minutes of football, equalling a contribution every 335.8 minutes. For comparison, over the same four seasons, Shelvey's average is a contribution every 268 minutes (and a lot more goals scored) and I don't think anyone would claim that he's a particularly coveted attacking midfielder.

Nah, he's still not good enough. His two goal flurry still makes his average over the last season and a half something like a goal every 25 games, which is rubbish for an attacking midfielder. He also doesn't create much, and we need someone better than either Davis or JWP if we're to get out of our attacking rut.

Was brilliant last season, with and without MS. This season his defensive work is still good, but his passing has gone back to where it was during his first season. It seems like he really needs to be settled and to concentrate, otherwise his passing gets wayward. On his day though (and with a ref who doesn't constantly penalize him just for being bigger and stronger than his opponent) VW can dominate a midfield like very few others in his position.

Like his set pieces - gets great pace and trajectory on the dead ball most of the time. With a moving ball it's a different story, as he rarely seems to make a clean connection whether passing or shooting. Watching him yesterday he almost seemed to want to stop moving before making a pass so he could orient his hips the way he does when lining up a free kick. He's currently got absolutely no acceleration either - no idea about his top speed, but in chases for the ball yesterday he invariably lost by some distance each time. Like I said, I really do think he has great technique from set pieces, but in open play, he looks like a smart kid who has read lots of books about being a top class footballer, and is trying to do an impression based on what he's read.

Lukaku, Costa and Benteke are all quick as well as strong, which was the dichotomy I set up. Of course, it's better to be both, but really the question is, if you can't have both, which seems to be the preferred option elsewhere?

Aside from Pelle and Gestede today, which other teams in the PL regularly play 4-2-3-1 or other single-striker formations with a slower target man rather than a quicker, less physical centre forward? Giroud probably fits the bill, but I'm not sure who else.

Pretty dire. Good chances in the first 15 minutes, but more the result of Villa sloppiness than any particularly incisive play on our part. Davis was indeed probably our best player second half, but lets not kid ourselves - if busyness and a couple of decent forward passes that don't lead anywhere are our idea of 'outstanding' then the rest of the season promises some pretty dull games. JWP was abject, moving without pace and passing without conviction - very strange technique, he seems to stop running every time he passes the ball as if setting himself for a free-kick, but still scuffs half his passes. I like Pelle and think he's a technically sound player, but I'm starting to hate the fact that the entire team is set up to serve him. Could Mane ever play as a central striker the way Sturridge does for Liverpool when fit? Greater mobility and fluidity across the front line would surely give the opposition more problems than this tactical dead-end we've blundered down.

We've had chances, but most of them feel gifted rather than created. Finishing is characteristically awful, but more depressing is the fact that we're just so f-ing dull to watch. Watched the Stoke/City game earlier, and saw Stoke play attacking football more intricate and inventive than anything we've managed all season.