um pahars

Although it would dispel the myth that we are the only set of fans who get on the players backs, I don't think the fans at these clubs shoud take the lions share of the blame. For me, the problem is twofold. Firstly, very often when teams are relegated they can often go into a downward spiral where losing becomes a habit. Of course some bounce back, but many others struggle to reassert themselves. Secondly, the fall out from relegation from the Premiwership is massive, particularly with reference too the finances. We went from circa 50m income to half that overnight!!!

I think he has always overestimated the true potential of our Academy!! It was always trotted out that we have this great Academy that will solve all of our ills, when in reality it was on a par with many others up and down the country. It was an intangible that was never able to be pinned down. It served us well for the odd player either in the first team or money brought in, but it was never going to solve all of our problems.

You've missed the point here nickh, because in establishing that Sale is indeed Lowe's mouthpiece at The Mail it shows that Lowe is OK that this has gone into print. His motives for doing so and it's importance (or not) are then up for grabs, but knowing he is OK with it being aired sets the context for the debate that follows. Afraid I will have to scoff then nickh. Paul Allen was never in the ball game.

Sorry, but you're the one whose recollection is inaccurate: Wilde would not agree to serve on a board with Lowe, and, Lowe would not agree to serve on a board with Wilde. The only time where there was a semblence of an agreement over some issues (e.g. vetoing the SISU bid and ousting the Execs), the egos of Lowe and Wilde could not agree to work together going forward. Yet they're now running the show!!!!! (although arguably Lowe is running the show and Wilde is just a figurehead).

I was just going to post that request up to see if you would be kind enough to do the honours. Does this name mean anything to you or any of your Ducth colleagues??? Aparently he is a regular at matches, Staplewood and St Mary's, but he has never officially been introduced to people. Someone thinks he was also present at the Osborne Pub Q & A night, but not had that confirmed. The snippet I got was that he was Lowe's footballing advisor and has a say on all the major footballing decisions. Not sure exacty what that means, or how it relates to Jan and the decision making process, so maybe someone with an in to the Club can get this clarified. Apparently, this is him.

Please add +1 to whatever figure you're on. I haven't got a clue how to use FaceBook, but am up for etting m y point across before and after the Swansea match.

You need to read Dubai Phil's post above Frank;) So are you happy that Poortvliet is allowed to continue?

Two things on this one: Firstly, they're not actually doing anything about it. The current line is business as usual. Secondly, IMHO communication from the Club is now a busted flush and with so much rubbish in the OS in recent months, I don't think anyone takes it seriously and it has lost any respect it may have had.

If we had won every game, we would be top of the league.

And he is????

Behave yourself. It's hardly negative to want a change of manager when this season has been a fcking disaster (except the odd away win) and we're sat in the relegation zone after losing to two of our closest relegation rivals in the last three home games. If your opinion is that we should just grin and bear it, then that's your shout, but I feel that even given our resources and with less than a half a season gone, then a change of manager would not be a bad idea. I'm being positive in my request for change in hope that we can move up the table. You'd be better off turning that machine gun on Room 404 & 405 of the De Vere tomorrow night when Jan and Wotte check in. If anything, I'd call your defeatist attitude and saying that there's nothing we can do as much more negative.

Frank, like Lowe, methinks you have spectacularly missed the point made before regarding the make up of our fanbase. Our hardcore fanbase is circa 15,000. They will come what may, they are the ones hooked and in love with the Club. After that there are a fair few thousand who will come dependent on results, goals, feelgood factor and a number of other things that aren't there at the moment. After that there's a fair few thousand who are really only interested in seeing stars, the glamour and the top flight. You can moan as much as you want about the second and third categories not turning up, but it is a useless moan as they won't be on here and they won't return even if you shout it out from the rooftop of St Mary's. They will only return if results improve. It's not rocket science, so struggle to understand why people continue to try and defy the bleeding obvious with their rallying calls. The first category of fans come despite results, the other two have to be won back by the Club. It will not happen any other way. Get a decent manager in, win some games, create a spirit of unity and togetherness and you might start tempting the second group back. Then use their gate receipts to improve the team, which in turn improves the attendances, which in then increases our chances of getting back the third category of fans. A virtuous circle, as opposed to today's vicious one.

Problem is Ron that I'm sat here thoroughly depressed and let down that we have to persevere with this mental experiment. Just saying, that's it, there's nothing doing, just shut up and get on with it doesn't sit too well with me (and I reckon many others as well). I feel like one of those lions in the trenches who just has to accept his fate and has been told he has to go over the top when the whistle blows.

Depends what period you are talkin about. Don't think his appointment was met with universal approval and many had doubts, but by the end of the season I think there were very few who slagging him off.

Very few, if any, think we are an elite team. Not sure what you are trying to say!

As others have pointed out, I think you have missed the point somewhat. What the OP was saying was that if you accept that JP in the long term is not the right man for the job and would ultimately damage us, then losing one game to rid us of his presence might be a price worth paying. 28 games have given us a very good perspective of whether he is the right man for the job. I don't think I want to give him any more time!!! What do you base that on? Attendances have fallen as a direct result of performances (not the other way round) and those who have attended have been extremely supportive and understanding of the team and up until now, Poortvliet.

My little birdy has been in touch again and he confirms that the guy is the one Big Bad Bob has cropped in post 63 above. I must have misheard last night as apparently is is something like: Kim Van De Wiet So do we have a Director of Football that we've not been told about???? Was he at today's meeting???? Did he attend the pub get togethers with Jan and Wotte???

You have to have Poortvliet up there, just to show how many people want him kept on.

And I'm also in fighting mood. FFS, what will it take for someone to sack him????

I certainly think you should start with an advantage. However, that would also have to be tempered by the fact that when teams are relegated it often takes them a while to regroup. As Derby found out this season, losing becomes a habit. And as you say, it still has to be delivered. I haven't followed Leicester's progress much, so have no idea if they have bought players, lost players or whatever, but I don't get the impression they have gone mental and spent loads and looking at their team last night it looked like a load of youngsters gelling well. (PS I'd have Holloway over Jan!!!)

I'm not saying Pearson was some special manager, and IMHO he still had to prove himself. I was merely responding to JohnnyFartPants post who suggested his form with us last season was poor. It was average, mid tableish, certainly not play off stuff, but certainly not relegation either. With regards going to Leicester, I think that has more to do with Leicester's potential more than their current position. They are "bigger" than many in the Championship and even the Premiership (a bit like us in that we are down at the moment, our potential is much bigger than Preston, Barnsley, Blackpool, Plymouth, Swansea etc - no disrespect to them of course). I'm interested about this claim that he should be doing well considering the resources etc, as firstly many teams have found it hard to bounce straight back up and secondly I havent followed Leicester's progress much, but noticed last night that apart from 3 older players the rest were pretty inexperienced youngsters.

If you take out the Plymouth game where he arrived the day before (or on that day depending on who you talk to), then his record was 16 points from 13 games. Not play off stuff, but certainly not relegation material either. This was without a pre season, after inheriting a team that was sinking (lost 4 out of the previous 5 games) etc etc etc. His initial record was to lose none of his first 5 games (he only lost 3 out of 13). His form was mid table stuff. Last season over 46 games, his 13 game form would have had us 14th/15th This season after 28 games, his 13 game form waould have us 14th/15th I think would have been good enough to keep the fans on side.

Two points on this one: 1. The same apologist claptrap was spouted last time we went down, in that at least we would win some games, we can gain repromotion stronger. Going down will be no walk in the park and if Poortvliet was still in charge I wouldn't be surprised if we struggled down in Division 3!!!!!! 2. If staying up in this season is playing havoc with our finances, then what affect do you think relegation would have on them???

Interesting bit about being strange and edgey as I've heard a bit more today. I still have no idea on who he is, but have heard some snippets that he has upset many at SMS as well as at other Clubs with his behaviour. Don't want to say too much as it's all a bit patchy at the moment, but find it weird that no one knows he is? nickh, you've got an in into the Club, why don't you try and find out who this man is and what his role is?