Frank's cousin

The best is win for us and a draw between the two - come lets show some optimism! that would mean a nie 7 points ahead of Reading and 8 ahead of Wham with 6 games to go.. could it be another 'carlsberg did football resulsts' or a 'Hamlet moment?'

Very sad - prognosis kind of depends on what type AML, ALL, APL etc... and what sub types. My Mrs had ALL at 21 - chemo, radio, Bone Marrow transplant and fine fit and dandy 18 years later so its not all bad.. wish him and family all the very best - going to be interesting for him getting a drugs test when he's back playing again... you get given shed loads of steroids and not sure how long their metabolites hang around in the system - but at least he'll have a genuine excuse All the best Stilyan!

Champions league and you get to pick between lady of choice.... and 'what the feck has the Roman ever done for us'...

Getting nervous - not about the game, about getting back - car is now only 3/4 full, but its 490 miles return and I will need to cane it down the M74 and M6 through them hills and lakes to make kick off on time - any fuel likely to be at the hideously inflated Service stations? Will Lambo get annother hatrick? Will Sharp cut through their defence/ (boom boom) - will let you know on the 'just back from the match on fumes' thread tomorrow night... 3pts - have a good feeling about this Saints to win 3-1

Its a legal requirement to get the best DEAL for creditors which may be be the highest bid - eg the highest on paper my by to offer 20p in te £ now... but a alterantive may offer more over a longer period by having and investment and growth strategy that may be more risk, but offer better poetntial returns... as I understand it.

... the only truely remarkable thing about all this is that are still isolated pockets of fans who despite, eveything that has happened, everything that and then all the progress etc still feel harbour some sort ingrained distrust, hatred, dislike for NC without ever fully explaining their reasons in any sort of adult way - one can only assume its because they know deep down their reasons are ridiculous and would make them look pathetic. Given everything we do know (and yes if you are really paranoid there might be things we dont), how anyone who is a saints cant be absolutely feckin ecstatic about the current situation is beyond me... trivial gripes because he cant please all the people all the time is one thing. The snidey, veiled insults and ridicule truely are childish and frankly pathetic. I thought we had dumped those losers who wouldn'y be happy even with half time blow jobs in a champions league final when Lowe finally left... but on hey it only highlighted that they needed the thrill of having someone to blame for all their petty inadequacies to compensate for something... f*cking bewildering.

Think NIck is in the classic case of 'when in a hole...stop digging...' Naturally he has the right to disagree with strategy and approach of the club if thats his view (although he has not suggested a viable alternative that would achieve the same in such a period) - but it just give me the feckin hump to see this sniping ****** pant wetting negativity ....when you look at where we are now compared to when Markus and NC took over.... so hes narked over the ST business - well be a man, apologise and put it right... swallow some feckin pride and sort it out in private.

I'll bite and address his points

Thing is stu, even without the benefit of extensive experience in Financial management, its relatively easy to see, if looked at in detail, that there was never any concern - its also a matter of trust. I trust NC. I admit most of that is based on the simple fact that Markus trusted him implicitly and given the ethical way he ran his business - I felt we were in safe hands - right from the start NC said we were debt free and we remained so as IMHO the intention was always to invest cash set aside for the project and and convert to equity at the appropriate time. The goal is self financing and I am 100% confident we will schieve that, having invested my guess will be 50mil for a club worth more than that in the prem... a nice modest return for what was a semi - retirement but still investment opportunity for Markus.

Skates are clutching at starws to try and make them feel better about their own mess - and have latched on to Nick's ill-informed bitterness as a 'sensible' view LOL. It does not bother me that some have these odd and ignorant views, but it does hhighlight how easy it is to prey on some fans fears and this has potential to unsettle the ill informed or naturally pessimistic - which can cause division, its for that reason taht those who have a more pragmatic and informed view should I believe try and present these issues with a more balanced perspective. The Skates response was laughable, expected but did highlight 2 things that it would be normal to worry about WITHOUT all the teh factual information to hand: 1) the wage to revenue ratio in isolation at 93% is extremely high and 2) if sold we could have new owners who might levergae the purchase price against the club as debt. My HO is that 1) the target is self sustainablity which is only possible if a) you are happy in a mid table lower league position or b) have prem income without going mad in transfer and wage spend and build cyclical success through developing talent through the acedmy and doing what NIge has done. Taking journeymen and coaching them to be the best they can be - improving fitness and skill - somethig we have a good tradition of, be it with the likes of Armstrong, to Mazza or even a young James Beattie, to a Lambert etc. In order to achieve b in such a short time frame you need to invest cash - we have not thrown stupid money at it because the total investment has always been lower than the total value of the asset. It becomes a concern only when the levels of investment/spend exceeds the asset value and there is no provision or guarrantee that if the monies need to be repaid, its possible to do so through the revenue streams as a whole. In our case it shoudlnever have benn a concern as it was made claer/obvious at the outset that Markus made provision for this strategy. Given is overall wealth, the provsion was realtively small so we knew he would need to 'borrow' this cash from some pension fun, lithunian savers or funnel in cash proceeds from illegal arms sales... 2) leveraged buy outs are horrible things, hate them but can work if managed ethically and the owners are decent - which no one can guarrantee - however, I dont belive NC would consider such an option without appropriate safeguards as he has proven not only by his managemnet style but through his associated and trust with the Liebherr family that the ethical aspects of business are very important to him. So I really believe (to teh best of my knowledge) that we are in sound and safe hands both now and for the foreseeable future - no one knows what the long term hold and saoints fans have always had enough wits about them to scrutinise the situation and kick up a fuss if we see actions that are financially damanging... unlike those '200,000 bestest fans' down the road, most of whom seemed happy taking loans form the child maimer to fund a cup run and then not pay for it - we all know that the vast majority of saints fans would be appalled had our club behaved in that way... and dare I say, would have started a pheonic club in the lower leagues to prove it (although Total Network Solutions already bagged the 'New Saints' Name ... ;-))

only when prefixed with 'moist' surely?

True, but thats the issue, easy to find, easy to spread, easy to influence opinion, attitude etc - web makes it easy for all us scrotes to have our soapbox. The rapidity with which the search engine bots catalogue the info, means its availble to any Journo in almost real time and brown stuff can be stirred...

I have also met Nick and found him to be a decent bloke, passionate about saints and as is his right holder of strong opinions that I might not agree with but respect his right to hold them. However using the 'pub landlord' analogy from above, he's made a rod for his own back from day one, because not only has he slagged the landlord off to the regulars, because of his SISA connections and his willingness to give them a quote not just slagged the landord on his small web page, but takes out adds in the local paper and on TV slagging the pub and landlord - even if he thinks he has the right to as he considers the landord only a tennent rather than the freeholder, his 'bar' is hardly surprizing.... he sure knows how to win friends and influence people... So why is Cortese so concerned by something that within his scope of responsibilty is seemingly so trivial? Simpley because what some even on here believe is a stubborness, is in my mind a single minded determination to let NOTHING derail or detract from the project. Everything must be right and in place and there is no room for whinging passengers on this bus - it may not sit well with everyone that the club progress is governed by such an assertive strategy, but no one can argue with the results to date! Its working and working wel, ahead of schedule and that is only because NC has not been afraid to make decisions, decsions that are ultimately in the best interests of the club, even if not always in the best interests of ALL the fans. Its a business approach for sure, but one that has dragged the club (with not so much kicking and screeming, but certainly an element of scratch and name calling) from the depths of L1 to the brink of the prem in 3 years... Anyone who thinks that could have been achived without money is naive. But the 'provision' for this was hinted at from day one, and although rumour it was hinted that this pot might be apprximately 50 mil - it be no surprize to me if by the time next years accounts are published that is the level of the total investment to get us back to the prem - whilst some will argue its notliving within your means, it is if that money has created an asset worth more that its costs, which it certainly will have if promoted. The Liebherr family may or may not ant to sell and move on and given the support they have provided following Markus's sad early death, we certainly should not have a bad word to say about that - we should be extremely grateful.. and whatever their feelings, I am sure they will be satisfied with teh return they recieve form tehir late fathers investment. Yes, I believe Markus did see it as a low risk (in his financial terms) opportunity for a semi-retired hobby business, on which a return could be made - a rare thing in football, but I suspect he he surprized himself at just how much fun it could be. Sadly he is no longer with us to see the fruits of the graft that NC, the staff, manager and playesr have put in to achieve the progress we have to date, but I also believe this has made NC even more determined to ensure he can deliver on the strategy that his close friend was so willing to invest in. For me, Nick's opinion is his own and he is always entitled to it, but to compare in anyway the strategy at Saints under Markus and NC with the shambles and ethical nightmare delivered by successive owners down the road is nothing short of scandulous - Nick should be ashamed of that.

True, but don't underestimate the impact that 'image' and how we are perceived by the media and pundits - you can't tell me it's a bad thing when the pundits talk about our pretty style whether deserved or not- we have established a growing rep for it - and that can have a positive impact in everything from attracting more fans at The gate to recruiting for the academy ?

Think its a bout the desire to play a stylish game though, not loosing sight of the pragmatic reality that its results that really matter, especially at the business end of the season whenit gets scrappy... But NC also knows that if he wants the club to grow, and by that I mean fill the seats week in week out at SMS, w have to entertain as well and be good value for and that comes with playing an more expansive attcking and pasing game - I am sure he has considered it important for the 'brand' value of SFC as well

All speculation.... maybe some truth in rumour, who knws, but the question should be why get so concerned? Anyone with any sense and a simple pair of open ears will have seen that from day 1, it was clear that whatever the motivation, whatever the long term plan, folk with busines sintegrity such as the Liebherrs would not drop us in the mire. For me teh reason why I have always felt we were in good hands and trusted NC, is simply because Markus did. Those making a story out the the news that the 33 mil was converted to equity, forget that there is not a cat in hells chance that either Markus or Nicola Cortese would have sanctioned such spending/investment had this equity deal not been on the cards. Cortese was also very honest in admiting that should the Liebherr family, feel they did not want to evntually continue owning the club, that he hd a plan B - why not trust him on this now? Secondly, I would not be surprized if there was some truth in a 25 mil asking price... but that was before we were very close to prem which increases the value somewhat. No pressure to sell, no debt, good leadership and folks of integrity at the helm. If the club is sold, I suspect we will see NC remain in charge and with a stake in the club - If its sold for 25 mil, its possible that NC would retain his 20% as equity - would make sense given the potential for becoming a solid prem side if we carry on with the pragmatic growth strategy adopted so far. Success (albeit in our pheonix like rise), always creates jealousy and suspician - its the British disease and so its no surprise that there are some 'dark forces' happy to spread rumour and gossip to unsettle those having a good time and enjoying that success, so dont let it get to you. What will be will be, and right now thats a club that has a modern infrastructure, is building for the future has risen from the despair of -10 point in L1 to the brink of the back to back promotions in just 2 years, has a decent hardworking united squad under a decent manager who just oozes enthusiasm and positivity, led by a chairman who is driven by the desire to succeed, with owners who have generously ensured their fathers wishes have been supported. Makes me feel very proud of what the club has achieved, and no miserable feckwit of meddling journas with dillusions of of self importance is going to dilute that for me, and nor should it for any saints fans.

See if you had only said 'deeper' motives, I think only the most naive would not have agreed with you.... but by adding the typically foreboding agenda driven 'darker' you become guilty of the very PR (albeit cynically negative) you are critical of, and thus lose any credibilty in the post...

So far 1400 away fans - which is not half basd for a late KO that disatnce and on the telly... pretty decent if you ask me, but then I am going so feeling a right smug bastard...

Indeed, with best will in the world there has never been a satisfactory response to the 'its about the oil' reality - always was, always will be and the fact that a so called labour Pm effectively bent over the pickle barrel and took a thorough shafting from the drink driving syphillitic di ck feckwit moron that was GeeDUBYA is only superceeded in the credibilty stakes by how the flying feck such an ignorant feckwit as GWB was every able to be elected president in the first place....

Think footballer getting caught playing with grannies al la Rooney is IMHO fair game Footballer who is alledgedly cheated on by mrs is not IMHO ...amyway, what usually happenes in these cases is that it just winds up the player to give even more effort and tehy usually score - totally counter productive...

### Think he got his commands from the same source as David Icke - is married to one of those new age boll ox believing nutters as well.... and I am definitely left of centre

NO disrespect intended, but Alps predicting a defeat and dissatisfaction, is no bad thing - it usualy means we win at a canter:smug:

But our last prem legue turnover was close to 50mil with 27 from TV/Sky.... so not sure about how they could get 16.4 in L1! - although when you think about it 20000 gate averages x 23 games x say "20 ticket average is already 9.2 mil cup runs etc so its not impossible... but like you say, suspect that 70% increase includes a percentage of the Oxo monies?

That's what I thought - he mentioned he knew several folk interested - suspect these are his banking friends - banking - leads to hedge funds (they well indeed be hedge fund maanagers who knows, but suspect what was hinted at was more likely a private deal...who knows, but right the garden looks rosey. (Cant believe my 5000th post was spo dull.... oh well sits well the 4999 then!)

Think the Echo artical indicates that Turnover to June 2011 was 16.4 mil with 93% of that as wages = 15.7 mil wages. If as they say turnover has increased 70% this year that gives a projection of 27.88 mil (although whether that includes player trading is not clear) - If we assume that 14.4 mil of last yaers wages was one offs, and lets assume 4 new players on 15k = +3.5mil or so then wages are now likely to be 17-18 mil which would be 62% of turnover which is way more like it.... however this is with the caveat that we are speculating on the turnover re player trades and the wage increases....