Frank's cousin

Dont forget, that the players will be getting part of that transfer fee in terms of contract termonation, and agents will get a cut, so 5mil will usually be about 3.8 in the clubs pocket.....

I really hope they stay long term... we finally and in some respects uniquely have been owned by a man who has integrity and in NC has been looking to run the club with a common sence approach to teh financials... if we wer put up for sale at say 20, mil, whats to stop a bunch of tyre kicking chancers who club their assets together and buy us with loans and then transfer that debt to the clubs as was at Manyure? Everyone somehow believes that 'for Sale' means we will be taken over by a decent billionnaire - when Markus and his family are the exception rather than the rule... we could end up with the same sort of crap pompey are in....

For Corporate Ho (will recap using small words as you seem to have completly missed the point) 1. You say ''So, the "vast majority of our fans" are loving that we got away with it, yet every Pompey fan you know personally is not boating or happy right now. Anyone else see the problem with these comments. The "majority" that you don't know you believe are loving it yet the ones you do know aren't. Mmm, nice logic there FC'' A. If you look at: this thread, pompey message boards, 606, etc... teh VAST majority feel no shame for their club, If you can point me to a site where the vast majority of fans are angry and feeling circumspect and feel they should be punished, then feel free to do so, but I think you will struggle. You perfectly illustrate the point by defending the 'vast majority' view which is 'we got away with it and are happy about it' - the few (3) pompey fans who i know are indeed older and perhaps wiser and see your predicament for what it is and are humbled by it... that is the exception from what is seen the message boards (pfc123 is the case in point I was criticising) 2. you say ''Remind me, weren't you the Championship club who spunked the biggest amount on transfers the season before you went into admin in a mad gamble to get promoted. Pots and kettles. Conveniently forgotten on here. Spending money you didn't have. Cheats etc etc etc etc etc''' A. Are you really that stupid? Firstly the 7 mil that was spent under a transient board was money WE HAD IN THE BANK - not borrowed, not loaned, but money we had in the bank, so no debt incurred by it, thats the first point. The second is that about 50% of us fans were NOT FECKIN happy with this - for several reasons, and the anger seen on these boards and the divisions in caused amongst teh fan base are only just healing - the reason, becaiuse some of us felt we should keep that cash for a rainy day and not risk it all on a promotion push, other disagreed. I have no pleasure in being right and I think OUR CLUB's BOARD was wrong to do it at the time... but hey it did not work, we were relegated again and went into admin AND had a penalty against us that meant something last season... which the vast majority of our fans accept... Seriously if you cant see the difference between that and what you did, you must be seriously challenged in the brain department...

For pfc123 You seem to mentione the 7mil paid against a loan of 23 with NU... you forget the 7 years at nearly 2 mil a year that WAS paid in repyments and interest so they got a total of around 21 mil, which OK is not full payment but we did NOT take this debt on when we were already in debt, but when we were in the black and when we could afford it - It was precisely because we did NOT Cheat and buy expensive players to maintain our premiership status which we could not afford, that we were relgated. Subsequent owners tried in vain, but made genuine mistakes/errors of judgement in the transfer market/manager selection which caused a further revenue loss on relegation to L1... our problems were NOT caused by reckless spending nor driven on the hope of success - it was also because it was invested in solid infrastructure that we found a decent honest buyer... had you actually spent 40% of that debt on a decent ground, another 10% on a decent training facilty, you might have actually attracted an honest buyer, but would unlikely have been in the prem for 7 years or won the cup... its that simple point you repeatedly fail to understand, and why there has been so much vitriol sprewed in the Pompey direction.

Though long and hard about this one... not a big fan of social divides such as this, but like most folk if honest with yourself you do teh best you can for your kids and put aside your personal principles on things like this. So my daughter goes to a private school, daily not as a boarder, and we pay monthly. We do OK financially, but this is a big expense so we have to make sacrafices elsewhere, eg holidays and luxury items...and most of the kids in my daughters class, the parents do the same... its less about rich kids, and more about average kids whose parents made that choice and make sacrafices to pay for it... its not easy, but hopefully it will give her a good grounding.

This is the problem most football fans have with pompey... on the one hand you (perhaps rightly) have been arguing the point that the financial mess is NOT the fans fault, that you could do nothing about it... but on the other fail to acknowledge that what the club did, has done, and looks like continuing to do, is in effect cheat, and avoid a suitable punishment because of timing simply because the Prem and FL are seperate entitities...and the fans are loving the fact they got away with it... fine if you feel happy with that as its simply a matter of your own personal moral and ethical stance and that of the vast majority of your fans.. personally, I would be pretty ashamed of my club, not proud that it had escaped any meaningful punishment for builing up 10mil of debt to fund blip of success... then ****ing off without paying.. shameful really. And before you mention it, although nowhere near the same ballpark, we took our punsihment and felt shame in what had happened (although getting a mortgage on a stadium WHEN YOU CAN AFFORD IT, and suffering only later because a lack of money available for the squad resulted in relegation and a few tyre kickers taking over and fecking things up - a long way form ****ing away 100mil on a squad you cant afford to try and achieve something and when the bubble bursts simply walk away from it...) If you cant see that, then it highlights ignorance and a complete lack of what this is really all about. I have several friends who are pompey fans and they are NOT boasting or happy right now as they feel they have no right to do so, and they have my respect for that. The attitude you display above (which seems more common) is why there is such a response to your predicament...

Whatever happens next... we must make sure his legacy lasts ... we owe him that. We need to ensure future enerations of fans know the major part he has played in our history, whatever happens in the future on or off the pitch.

Heart goes out to his family and friends. A modest man who literally saved our club and embraced it with so much enthusiasm which was clear to see... a real fan who will be sadly missed. Any tribute will be supported by me, from 'The Liebherr Academy' to the The Markus Liebherr Stadium, as long as its lasting, so we dont forget what he did for us.

Anything as long as its lasting, tasteful and supported by his family IMHO... not for me to determine what is 'fitting'. But as a suggestion, I think he would have liked the idea of something that has a legacy for the club and community... eg The Liebherr Academy so similar. No problem with anything be it Stadium, statue or stand, but it needs to be lasting - we should never forget, what he did for us.

Heart gos out to his family and friends... this is so sad. I watched the video on YouTube of his welcome game... and it brought tears to my eyes... you saved our club and the joy you showed watching your team will always be remembered... What you did can never be underestimated... I would be proud if the saints played at The Markus Liebherr Stadum.

I doubt this has anything to do with the few quid it might raise in revenue and more to do with a control over how the club is portrayed in the media. Some see this as 'control freakish' others will see it as focusing on all the details - and getting them right... just depends on your perspective...said it before, will say it again... time to judge the man is in 4 years - thats the ambitious timetable he has set and so thats the time to see how well his strateggy and tactics have worked...

Come, do you honestly give a flying feck about this non-story... well 'supose 50 posts and all that, thank feck teh footie starts tomorrow...missed it, even though i must be one of about 5 brits, 60mil Spanish and about 85 mil Germans who actually enjoyed the WC...

I think all it woudl mean is only 2 relegated from the CCC next season as in effect Pompey would have been the 3rd, and so on trickle down? but not sure...

I dont want to any club go out of business, but I dont want to see them get away with it all either - so far the punishment theyhave received is NOT comparable to their crime - it just leaves you with a sense of injustice - we were punished more for far less a crime!, there's has had no impact to date apart from on the squad. Some folk have said that the removeal of the football creditors rule would cause major problems, with clubs able to go into admin and continue, still owing other cllubs money... I disagree, all it will mean is that clubs will be required to pay in full upfront for the transfer and thus be less likely to be able to get loans and credit for transfer payments - which is HOW IT SHOULD BE. As to owing players themselves, well if teh finances are correct and players were not so bloody greedy, it should not be a problem, so I am not sure WHY the PL, FL or FA allow clubs to pay by installment anyway - if you cant afford a player TOUGH FFS... its a mess and i hope HMRC get this overturned so that this can be dealt with properly once and for all... I know some Pompey fans will respond saying why should tehy be the ones who get shafted for a change in the rules, but I would say if that was their only crime, fair enough, but they traded in players and paid high wages KNOWING that it was just adding to debt with no way out - in effect the cheating thing is what bugs me most, and yes they are not teh only ones guilty of this, but although morally wrong whatever, it only becomes hideously wrong and potentially criminal when you can no longer service that debt... and to then proclaim success on the back of it is what is so shameful... I have still not seen many pompey fans protesting at their own doorstep and demanding the club apologise and show some humility....

Its simple folks dont like chnage, and they dont like things that they are unfamiliar with... I am very supportive of the new regime because it set out a clear ambitious plan for the next 4 years (5 year plan). It has seen us move from poor starting form to real contenders and but for a few sub par games that all clubs suffer, we would have made the playoffs last season. So judgement from my perspective will come in 4 years... thats only fair. Of course there will be things done that some fans dont agree with, and I can appreciate that its made worse when no clear explanation is offered, meaning the reliance on rumour and speculation. A case in pint is the ST installment plan.. the reasons for its withdrawal should be clear to everyone and have been debated, but the fact that the clud did not communicate them clearly was an error or judgement. BUt rather than ranting and raving and calling NC all sorts of names, surely, it just needs a calm and rational question to NC when the chance arrises at the APPROPRIATE time... not a mass of negativity and abuse - who is going to take that seriously? Certainly not NC. He isused to dealing with professionals in business. So yes its valid that he may be on a learning curve in dealing with the fanatism of supporters whose demands are beyond what is often reasonable on his time etc... but that does not make him evil. IT makes him a busy man who himself is under pressure to deliver in a very difficult business environment. Yet we as always ignore the positives that come with this, and jump on the first negative rumour or in our opinion 'mistake' and try and be all agreesive and negative about it.... perpetuated by a few who seem to have their own agenda/ego/arrogance to suggest its their right to get a response and quick reaction... Fans always want some utopian ideal - the old fashioned principles of club ownership and community, AND one that is highly competitive, upwardly mobile and has resources to invest for success... the two are mutally exclusive in this era... and thats not NCs fault, its the grim reality. THe club has to be run with a hard edge IMHO. Some will say its about trying to balance the two... sorry but i am not sure thats possible... Wilde, Crouch and even Lowe in some respects failed as a result because it ends up without a clear strategy - you have to chose one path and accept the negatives that come with it. such is the football world.

Er no... there is no one who thinks Cortese can do no wrong - what we are disagreeing on is how revelvent it is. If he is assertive, demanding, ****es off staff, annoys AP, annoys the Echo and the FL, annoys the odd fan BUT does a bloody good job and delivers on his ambition of Premiership in 5 years based on sound financial stabilty and wise investment in infrastructure and with a youth policy that sees more home grown talent, then he will have my thanks and respect. Would everybody be happy if he simply stated that their main concern was to keep everybody happy clappy, staff happy irrespective of how well we do, AP happy with no pressure, drank pints with the 'boys' and spent time in the media saying how great a club we were, whilst doing feck all about our progress, or simply buying the odd player to keep fans happy even though we could not afford it as gates dwindled due to lack of success?...er sorry forgot we had that under Wilde and Crouch.... despite their best intentions? No we would not be happy. In fantasy land, lets say back in the old days of black and white footage, clubs were community, transfers were rarer, and local boys played for tehir local clubs and there was success spread around when a good crop came through together... that was first shattered by the hoolis in the late sixties and early seventies, and then again by the excesses of cash from Sky and the Premier league whose self interest has shafted the financial integrity of the league as well as the level playing field and competition.... now like it or not, right or wrong, that IS the situation and until it changes we we have but 2 choices... have a club fashioned on old fashioned principles and be resigne dto lower league status with maybe a gate of 10K (based on how rare it is for clubs to get promoted without being the supported financially), or recognise we need serious hard and focussed business decsionmaking to maximise our resources, build for teh future and have a strategy in place that will be ready for the challenges ahead... Its not about NC and his personality or conduct, but about what the football environment has become... some cant accept it and thus seem unable to see past the 'business first is wrong' philosophy that was preachyed by Lowe and now NC. I simply dont understand why, if fans want success. Remember, Despite Lowe's hiddeous demeanor in public and his apparent arrogance, when we had success of a kind, the 2003 season etc, that was WITHOUT the kind of financial stupidity and cheating that our neighbours down the road used, we forget that very quickly in the rush to condemn and its this constant and rapid condemnation whenever the authourity at teh club does something we dont like that I and many other find so juvenile... NC is bound to make mistakes, I dont necessarily 'like' some of the noises (if they can be believed) but I think its also important to recognise that he should be judged in 5 years based on where teh club is. He himself set those targets - he promised nothing about being happy clappy to get there, just that it woudl take wise financial management, clever investment and blloody hard graft from all and i am prepared to wait until see we the RESULTS befor I judge, not judge him on riumour and gossip or even truth about who he has ****ed off this week.... because its frankly irrelevent.

Funny, even though there is no evidence that this ever took place or the ridiculous notion that staff are 'frightened' (I do suspect Patred might be Patblue on a wind up), I would actually have even more respect for NC if this WAS true... the FL should be ASHAMED in bending over and taking it up the backside for the the Preierleague cash - further erroding the integrity of the league as a fair and level competition... but as we know Chairman are more concerned with a bit of extra cash than in ambition to get promoted - except our ML and NC who see it as their major challenge... so Darn right, if he has not yet written criticising te rst of them, let me be the first to tell him he better get on with it!

What I find hilarious are those fans who form this instant dislike for anyone in authority at the club if they 'dont get down with fans, and hsare a beer or two with them' like Wilde or Crouch did... sure well liked, nice blokes and all that but without the resources or experience to unite the club and move it forward no matter how good their intentions. Lowe never stood an chance the moment we started flirting with relegation, because he had ****ed off two many with his 'arogance' - at which point as with all these things its nice and easy to forget, the improvements we had made... This is about the problem a small minority have with ANYONE who decides to run 'THEIR' club in any way other than the matey, pally 'down with the common man', community stuff of yesteryear and that from me a socialist! I can tell these posters a mile away, they are the same that slam into the authority figures if ther is a small story about them not seeingeye to eye with some ex player or so called legend - always assuming that those who worked for the club ON the pitch must be always right and those that worked OFF the pitch must always be wrong - its childish hero worship, becasue they can see value in scoring goals, but dont understand the need for effective financial stewardship ... and probably think the world owes them a living... they need to get out more.

What I find so frustrating is some of the language used on here to describe opinion - I simply dont understand how some of you can make this so personal - and y that I mean your opinins on AP, Cortese etc... simply because you disagree with their APPROACH, or in most case your interpretation of rumour and gossip about their approach. There is plenty of room for debating what we believe MIGHT be going on, and in general that is what these forums are all about, but it does seem at times that we almost seem to WANT there to be bad things and signs, if only for some to justify their personal views. We hads the same with Lowe - he became for soem the symbol of what was wrong with (in their opinion) football, and despite took everything he did or said as some sort of personal attack on them... ITS NOT FFS. For 99.999% of us, we will only ever be able to form opinion on folks character by what limited information is released - I will never meet Cortese, so I have no deep knowledge of his agenda, plans, approach, personality etc, just what we see is delivered and any communication he choses to release. From what i have read in the small number of interviews he has given, he's ambitious, pragmatic and driven, with high expectations of those who work for and around him. If you dont measure up, your learning curve may be very short to avoid the axe, but ultimately he will be judged on the results - 'its a results driven business afterall' Why does it really matter what kind of relationship he has with staff or AP? To keep us happy? I look at this way - would we be happy if we knew 100% that they were best pals and everything at the club, all the staff etc were best mates, and so what if we stay mid table and play narrow and direct? Or would we prefer to have leadership that wanted success, wanted it quickly in line with the investment and spend and appropriate to the size of our club, set very high targets and expectations of all employees so that this could be achieved, but it meant there was every now and again a bit of friction, that is leaked? I know what I would prefer. We were rescured at the death - no one knows what the long term will bring in say 5-10 years, same with most clubs, but what we can say for sure is we were rescued - and for me that means we should be pragmatic about what the new owener and his emploees feel is the best way tho achieve that success - even if it goes against what we believe to be our principles on football club culture and buisness approaches... why? Because we have tried the other approaches and it did not work. I would rather work for someone I disliked but respected, than someone who was a great bloke but who I could not. With NC, I would say, none of us know him at all to form an opinion on his personality, but to date he is getting on with the job his way, and like it or not, i have to respect that.

I am not really sure why we seem so keen on gossip and rumours of 'splits, spats and disharmony'... It could well be true that Cortese has presented AP with a high target and that he is aware that teh axe may fall sharply and quickly if we struggle... but why does this mean we need to assume its all bad blood? It could be the opposite, with both acknowledging and respecting the extremely high expectations we have at teh club - and lets be honest so do us fans expecting automatic promotion this season - so we cant exactly accuse Cortese of anything on that front - and teh one person who is in a position to ensure we get there is the manager - who for my money has shown balls in taking a job in which teh pressure was always going to be extreme, given the ambition of the owner and the the CEO. FF, I respect your opinion Duncs and enjoy your company and a decent bloke you are too, but I also know that you do struggle with the idea of clubs being run in this way - 'a harsh business first and often at odds with the common fan' approach. I am more pragmatic, in that if it works, all well and good, if not try something different. ML and NC want rapid success, an ambition that should sit well with fans, yet for some reason, there are many who who already seem to dislike them... not sure I really get this. AP is a good manager and from I have seen a decent bloke who came into this with his eyes open. He knows teh score and what is expected. He also will know that if he achieves success he will be rewared either at Saints or by other 'bigger' clubs comming in for him, so no losers really.

... its always 'a friend' I notice...

Its a fake as can be seen from this highly credible source http://stuffucanuse.com/fake_moon_landings/moon_landings.htm

You are a cruel man! ;-) Those are obviiously right stinkers, but I agree with the others who suggest the image rights is rather plump and juicy low hanging fruit - potentially rippened in glorious sunshine and dripping juice on the thigh.... er I digress.... sorry The interesting thing will be the player contracts and do these reflect the PAYE v Image right payments, next up if they do, do the percentages provide a realistic picture of these rights - because I can see HMRC challenging this and teh onus will be on PCFC to provide the evidence to support their payments - as they say dont feck with the taxman - I still am thankful to unkle Rupert for at least getting that bit right - If PCFC can 'prove' that the image right payed are a genuine reflection of monies earned abroad - get ready for a **** fight as the players from every other club in the prem will look for a tax rebate - it will make a mockery of the system if they get away with such blatent tax dodge - the question for teh courts will be whetehr this is considered avoidence or the very serious criminal charge of evasion...

Agree with most of that. For me we should stop blaming - it is afterall just looking for excuses because we are not good enough... at the moment. Its not about Foreigness of coaches, or ong seasons, or even selections, although in playing two players obviously not match fit was a mistake, but mistakes are made and can you imagine the media up roar had Capello left Rooney at home? (which in my view he should have done because as good as he is, he was simply not fit - clear as fecking day. For me, it goes back to what we value in players and how they are coached from an early age - I cant say it enough, the prem is exciting and great not because its 'ENGLISH, but because it attracts great foreign players with the high wages who complement some of the better English players who in turn are made to look better than they are - e buy in the 'creativity' and technical skill and coach strength, and physical pressence. Its therefore no wonder that the secondm, third and forth tiers of the game are often characterised by this in some gcases agreesive, physical style, in which younger devloping players who may not yet have that trength are bundled out of the game... so whereas in Germany teh lower tiers are packed with young players and U21s from bigger clubs coached in a style similar to the BUndeliga, and is thus a proving ground for teh development of players, we have kids who are 'discovered at CCC or L1 and L2 whio are bought by the bigger clubs at 15-16 where they sit on the bench for 4 or 5 years and miss out, then cant get a game anyway... especially if they are smaller and technically skilled rather than tradditional 'english' players. We just have to decide what style we want to play in the future... the same old, and recognise we probably wont compete at international level as 442 is so dead and buried compared to the Germans 4231 or spains 433 etc, as our players do not have teh technical abilty to play that sort of game, OR aim to play like Spain. Start now with kids 12-14, on a national scale (as tehy do in Germany) - align the coaching at the academies, get more Qualified higher level coaching into the kids game, establish a formula that encourages youngsters/u21s to stay with their clubs a bit longer and learn the game ..... oh and get rid of the dinsaurs in the game those old lag coaches in the lower leagues breeding hoof and hope and squeezing the beauty out of the beautiful game

I suspect his main focus will be the corporate market - I dont think anyone buys teh spin around the lack of a shirt sponser being becaus eit might make the 125 shirt less popular/its for teh fan, its because the contract ran out with flybe and rather than rush in and take a cheap small local sponsor for a few quid, but on a 3 year deal, better to wait until in CCC and get a better high profile sponsor etc etc... + corporate boxes and bookings. I can understand those who look back nostalgically at the dayss of 'true football clubs' being the community life blood - players smoking and drinking in the local bars - its how the game was in this country so it rersonates with many older fans in particular, but we cant go backwards unless we are happy to remain small and in the lower leagues, with teh only glamour being teh odd big FA draw. If thats what we want, then fair enough, but if we want to be back in the top flight adn be reknowned for entertaining football and a club that that is attractive to the better players (within our budget), the sad fact is we need to face the commercial realities of the game which I see you recognise. I have no problem with those who have the opinion that there should be no place for this more aggressive buisness managemnet in football, or the over commercialisation and focus on the airmchair fans etc... in many ways I agree, but what grinds is that these same folk are often the ones screaming for success and demanding greater signings and investment... which is sadly impossible without a strong commercial focus (and lets be honest, woudl we really feel the same about any future success if it was solely based on a huge investment by ML, a la Abramovic?). Its this 'I want it both ways' and the resultant slagging of NC that I find so incredulous...