Frank's cousin

Duncs - being a purist sure must be tough ;-) I dont think anyone would deny that we would love to see controlled creative and dominating games - a 'mini Barcelona' would bring a bigger smile to everyones face, but lets be realistic - we ARE a league 1 side at present, we have two players that are creative and would would cut it at a much higher level, but the rest are league 1 players - good L1 players but L1 nonetheless. I dont think anyone is under any illusion that this side would win the Championship - and it may well be that currently Adkins is limited in how far he can go personally, but thats not the issue right now and we will see what he can do with a better squad when we are promoted - I doubt Cortese will be 'loyal' for long if given a Championship budget, Adkins fails to deliver? But now is teh time to get behind tehm all and help get them over teh line so cheer up you mmiserable bugger ;-) - 3 points in the bag

But expectation needs to be countered by reason... If money and resources were to guarrantee success, then Chelsea and Man City would be fighting for top spot instead of 3-5th - Thankfully sport is not like that and football retains its interest because it inpredictable...at times.

Alps, thing is, no one wuld argue against the difficulty we face, Huddersfield, Bmounth, Peterborought , are all collecting points - but at a sumilar rate to us - it was never going to be easy. So you are right in saying that getting second spot is going to take a huge effort. We will see what happens, but Imy guess why quite a few get so frustrated with your .... er fristrutration, is that surely this inconsistency and form abnomalies has been a hallmark of Saints for Donkey's,...er and probably 99% of all football fans would say teh same about thier own sides. Forget out 'spending' and 'quality' if it were that smple we would be back in the championship last year, but its waht makes the game. The NOT knowing, the surprises . I respect your right to be frustrated and dissapointed at poor results, but i guess i dont understand what pleasure you do get from being a saints fan, if on teh whole its always so deprerssing for you. I hat losing, especially when its so delicately poised and single points and goal difference will play a part, but for me that adds to the excitement and this season's run in should be the one of teh best for many a year.

NOt quite sure why its so bad to be positive... personally i thought thats what supporting a football club was all about - belief in being able to win any game even when the odds are stacked against you. Thats not the same as assuming its easy, or that we should and will crush certain sides, but for whats fundementally part of bein a fan. Most fans will have recognised at the start of the season that despite our favourites tag, despite the relative luxury of having reasonable investment and a strong squad, this is still a very tough division to get out of as Forest and Leeds demonstrated... when 'bigger' clubs come down, sides often raise their game and despite all our advantages it was never going to be easy despite teh 'walk this league' mantra from some. But believing we can do it, and belief in the side is all to do with a positive mental attitude and that in Sport as in any walk of life is only a good thing ... it ceratinly cant do any harm, whereas negativity, and panic merely creates misery and can lead to a self fullfilling profercy...

Alps, can see what you are getting at. Bournemouth deserve second place at the moment because they ahve more points - won more games etc. If we are second at the end of the season it will be for the same reasons - and teh table wont lie. We have a squad and IMHO a manager who are quite capable of securing promotion. If we dont, I really dont think it will be through lack of effort, but perhaps a bit of bottle and maybe ...bad luck... they say it evens out over a sseason, so maybe thats our dose and we can move on, but we cant deny that we dominated Walsll had plenty of chnaces to score and on another day would have hammered them... but for me that unpredictablity is what makes this game so compelling and interesting - foregonconclusions may be better for teh nerves, but would make for a dull spectactle. If we dont go up, well thats life, I support Saints whatever division, so we just crack on next year, but I suspect teh season run run has plenty of twists and turns yet and will be exciting. ... and as we have beatenBournemouth twice this season already, if we do pip them to it, we will have deserved it.

LOL.. to be fair though the amount of coverage they show is probably linked to their contract in terms of minutes etc... so the BeeB need these morons to talk sheidt for half the program to pad it out and fill the slot

Stats.. and darned stats... I think teh probloem we have is that despiet a decent points tally and a good record, we have yet to play consistetly at the highest standard we are obvioulsy capable of... so it detracts from what the stats say which is that we are close ton averaging 2 points a game since he took over... Also whta do we expect from him? come be honest fpor a change we are in L1 and yet some of you are expecting us to have a prem quality manager now... we have a talented newbie who is learning more as each season goes. Wull he make the grade and be good enough for teh prem? whio knows, maybe, maybe not, but I find it a bit churlish when we criticise him so heavily as expecting him to be the finished article in L1.....

So Alps gets so wound up when the game is not going well, that he sees a miserable reuly and future... so what I was following it online and nearly chucked the lap top out the window when Swindon equalised... a few sary words added for good measure. I dont necessariy agree with Alps that often, but frustration during games only comes from passion as a fan. Some see the glass half empty all the time, others half full, does it really matter when there is the same volume in the glass? I am naturally positive, in that gioven our 3 games in hand we should be promoted automatically - but the caveat is that we still have some tough away games to come... it will be tight, and exiting (no smut please), which is about all you can ask for. As to those miserable sods who still remain 'unconvinced' by Adkins - why is it? Sure he has been given the resources etc, but football s never taht simple, otherwise why is Ancelotti struglling at Chelsea this season? It's always easy to criticise, but a win is a win and 3 points in the bag. If Adkins does not get us promoted we know he may struggle to remain in charge - but i for one think that is sad. He has been here some 6 months and is still building his team... yes he has made mistakes, and will make more as all managers do, but right now when its crunch time he deserves to be given our support... we can argur about what went wrong or right in May.

Interesting thread - and good luck to the Seagulls as far as I'm concerned... they had it bad for 20 years, we had it bad for about 2 so we cant complain and unlike pompey, their situatiion was not down to trying buy success. I think we have struggled a little for consistency, but that is to be expected given the early season changes and just when on a good run, the injuries to Lallana and the huge unsettling aspects to the OXO speculation have not helped... now we are getting to crunch time and as teh pressure buids on all sides, it will be time for the players to show what they are really made of. I do think we are not a complete unit yet, and Poyet at Brighton has had longer to mould and gell the side, so its no surprise that they have that consistency that others lack. Our Nige is not far behind, over the period he has been in charge, but our 'bad' results seem to be more clustered so we tend to view it as a bigger swing up and down, where as Brighton have the odd blip which is seen as such... what is important for us now though is to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and focus on our own form and results - its also about belief. And we have been notoriously bad /nervous over the last few years, that whenever it get tight we lose confidence and that can filter through to the pitch. Belief is what it is all about now and handling the pressure of expectation. The playesr know they are good enough. They know when it clicks together, most will be on the end of a trouncing, so they can do it. Luck will play a part to, and thats the same for everyone... we just need to believe. I know that when everyting is analysed its easy to find fault in style, selection, tactics whenever things go bad, some like Alps tend to focus on these things, and I can see the point of view of thsoe who are negative about our chances, because we do tend at times to shoot ourselves in teh foot, but now is not the time for this self analysis, now is the time for belief and full support. If we have confidence and show that, it all helps and the results since nige joined show we CAN do it... COME ON, second place is in our hands - so its there for the taking.

Not at all - each generation will have its moments and memories that are personal to us. That period between 76 and 86, probably holds the most memories for me, but part of it is alos down to the fact I wet from 6 to 16 years old in that time so I literally grew up during Lawrie's tenure - which is why its such a shame now that he cant put his ego to one side and embrace what the club is now trying to do...

Thing is, I am not quite sure where some get the impression that club is ignoring its past... Look at the Ex players (cup winners) on the pitch against Man U, the current strip etc. The simple fact is that NC has an issue with THREE folks from our past - and If Duncan gets his book out soon with an interseting title (;-) ) we will see its £ out of about 1000+. Its just made an issue of because those 3 were so important to our history and have such a strong place in all Saints fans hearts - which is why it is such a shame. NO ONE wants to bash LM or MLT or even Frannie, and MOST dont want to bash NC, even those that take LMs perspective. But IMHO, the ones currently talking in the media and continuing to take small digs when they get the opportunity are LM and MLT... They have the power to stop it - and by their ACTIONS would demonstrate that they want to put it behind them and to bed, as their words currently dont say this. My questions remains - what are they hoping to gain from it? Surely they must know NC is unlikely to chnage his mind on a few things by these digs? Only a change of approach will soften any stance. I dont think it escapes anyones notice that the issues are only with those who were involved in some way with past regimes...and Frannie who is Matty's mate? So hardly a case of the club ignoring its past. Oh and every CLUB has a 'brand' 'image' and culture that it is known for so dont be frightened of the word - its just a word that combines those traits, WITH its history and CURRENT situation. ...AND it is important if we want to appeal to the next generation of fans who have no investment or knowledge of the past - they need to feel things are positive and on the up, or parents will be sheling out for Man U kits rather than Saints ones. Seems to me some fans dont get the fact that you cant have it all... If we as we progress want to have a 'brand' /culture/reputation, that allows us to keep and attract good players so that the CLUBs ambitions are realised, we need to build on the past but not let it dictate our future. We have to be honest. We had a few successful years at a time when wage differences meant even we could afford a European player of the year on £150k A YEAR... and by getting that combination right, of youth and experience we did amazingly well... but like Forest and a few few others of similar size, you cant live on that for ever... look where we are now - all passed glories wont help us out of league 1. All they have done, is indicate to ML and NC that we were a CLUB worth saving.

Thing is it would need to be on his terms... and NC is currently the king of the castle... so sadly unlikely to happen. If LM wants to be 'welcomed' back into the fold, I cant see that happenig without a period of silence in the press - demo his loyalty to Don Cortese and the 'family' first. Sure its stupid and silly and all ******, but because I can understand WHY NC has gone for this particular approach (including all the negatives that go with it), and seeing that it seems to be working, then I just wish LM et al would see that its working, even if they dont agree with the style or approach.....

LOL... you sychophants - do they give you a reacharound?

TBF MInty I think part of the problem with teh fan divide is that we were in such a crap position before NC and ML came to us, that many (and me included to some extent) dont want more divisive stuff that at best, simply makes some fans chose, at worst drives the current regime away? I know thats an extreme view, but there is a chnace that if the media through their twisting, ex players and mangers through their perhaps misguided media naiviety end up driving NC away... to be left with what? Possibilty of the said explayers trining desperately to raise cash from chancers who go with a leaveraged buy out? I know thats possibly an element of paranoia, but it would explain why some feel that the 'quotes' in the media that are often digs at the regime are not welcomed by all? Its not bitterness on the fan sid, just perhaps a concern that teh more this plays out in the media, it chips away at NCs desire to continue...especially in light of Marcus' sad death last year. Therefore you get some, me included that just wish those that have the best interests of teh club at heart would emonstrate it by avoiding media comment that can be mis quoted, mis directed etc... because surely they msut know whjat teh media is like, and therefore with the clubs best interests at heart would avoid it? BUt as we saw with MLT and FB, they seemed to possitively gloat at the opportunity to take the proverbial out of NC on LIve TV... opinions or not, given how well things are going on the pitch, does this really demonstrate that they have the clubs best interests at heart...or their own?

UP, Agreed with your comments - I guess for us mere mortals, it is also a bit easier to see the logic and rationale from both perspectives. I can fully understand why the club has gone about its 'focussed' approach which has left a few head reeling, and on the flip side, appreciate that nothing should be above criticism and if its fair and based on logic, then it should actually be encourgaed - in effect it becaomes positive criticism, rather than the 'distraction' that NC is so weary of. I have not read the article, so cannot comment, but it sounds like there is an olive branch and if so, then thats great - itw what we want. We all know Lawrie is a big ego and opinionated - and nowt wrong with that. Its not that or his opinion that I have been critical of, but maybe afterall the problems we have suffered, I just felt that at the positives really do outway any negatives, so even if certain points are vaild, I have struggled to see what there has been to gain from 'rocking the boat' at this time... OK biassed in this because it was just great to finally have a club on the up and in theory rid of the politics of the past. I hope all bridges have not been burned, as Lawrie and MLT could be strong allies and a good bridge to fans (even if I dont always agree with them ;-)), but all parties woul need to soften their stance and agree to disagree - or at least accept that change is not necessarily always a bad thing. Football culture is very much engrained in the past - most changes that go against the 'tradition of a local club' do tend to meet resistance - especially from thsoe whose association with the club, be it as fans or players or management, is longer than the new owners or directors. Its understandable as we see such ownership as 'custodianship' and transient - But I guess, given what we have been through, I am maybe just naturally cautious of things that could unsettle the current ownership and make them think again? As you know, I struggled deeply with teh concept of Wilde, and Wilde/Crouch as well intentioned as they were, they simply lacked the experience to deliver success on the bufdget we were faced with, or the cash to cover for them during the learning process. Lawrie was on their side, so he was tainted IMHO by that, but not for ever ;-) - and typically for the web forum, this was interpreted as some sort of full support for Lowe.... The same applies now. I dont think for one moment that NC should be or is above criticism. I think he has and will make mistakes, but thankfully these are mostly on the PR side, and not financial as his predecessors so we have at least a very solid foundation for the rebuild... and thats why If foced to come down on one side or the other, It would at this stage be very much with NC (not that I think we should be forced to chose) - My hope was that given LMs and MLTs love for the club, that they might also recognise this and put aside their personal issues with NC and avoid the media - who as we know are quick to take advantage and twist quotes to suit tehir own agendas - and maybe NC for his part needs to appreciate that we CAN be fully behind what he is looking to do, but also have opinion on some of the more 'community and club culture' which at the end of the day is only made to ENHANCE the positive approach he is taking, and not designed to challenge it.

To be honest UP, we cant judge what teh vast majority of teh fan base want byt the few obsessives on here ;-) The point really is, that you can have both success and the 'spirit and community' - the question remains though as to what that 'spirit and community' mean - because I would guess it means something different depending on who you ask. For many, the PERCEPTION of lets call it 'ruthless focus' that some accuse the club of IS a price worth paying for success. However, I also think we have a few bits screwed up... but we need to put it into some kind of context. When NC was apointed by ML, we were in a terrible stabe as a club and as a business. The whole thing needed a complete review and restructuure, a complete chnage in approach if we were to avoid the mistakes of the past and rebuild from the ground up. Now there are different ways that this can be done, different 'change management' solutions etc... NC used his preferred approach - probably 'broke a few eggs' in making the new cake... and its that what some cant rationalise. If you look at the clubs that ARE successful, they have deliberately moved towards the corporate - they have BUILT on the legacy of their past, but not been slaves to it - and the future is seen as more important. If we dont like this, fair enough, thats our choice, but the quaint, provincial community club catogory, rarely supplies champions. Derby and Notts Forest etc was probably the last time and that under the direction of a 'tyrant' who did as he pleased.... So we need to be realistic. I also believe that when we start to see the fruits of this change, we will also see a more relaxed approach - still focussed, but perhapss more open to the 'softer' elements of a club culture. At this time the focus is all on the pitch... and I dont have any problem with that.

The problem has always been quite simple - Lawrie has in the past aligned himself politically with certain regimes and been vocal about others - so by placing himself on one side he opened the door to those who did not agree with the regime. This was sad day as it meant that those who could not reconcile any support for the Wilde/Crouch debacle, where drawn into criticising LM for his part (albeit small) in that. NO differnt from MLT becomming involved with Pinnacle - heart in right place, but brain not doing its due dilegence... Lets be honest, most fans dont care about the politic. Most really only care about what happens on the pitch and therefore heroes from out past success, are more important to them than anything that happens in the boardroom - hense the support for heroes past whatever they may say in the media. Naturally, the media like to blow these things up - and as we have seen, they seem to delight in taking advantage of the 'footballer brain' being as it is - Benali, MLT and LM have all IMHO been victim to the media setting them up for a quote they can twist and turn - and they were unwise to open that door. They are rightly entitled to their opinion, and I doubt that it it has much of a 'destablising' effect as some like to presume (with the possible oexception of the 'club for sale' story at a time of negotiating new sponsorship.... but we do not know who released or made that up...),... but what it odes do is divide sections of the fanbase (well that minority that care). We have seen it on here. It chips away at the solidarity we all seemed to have when ML took over... it undermines the confidence in some that the direction is the right one. Wat I do not understand is what is the reason to do it? Disagree for sure, opinion is everyone's right, but why not phras it in such a way that minimises any 'story'? LM, MLT etc could quite easily say something along the lines of 'what really matters is that the club achieves its ambitions, that it has the success the fans deserve and progresses back to the higher table. We have seen some major changes in the way the new owners have gone about things, and if I am honest, I dont quite understand why some of these approaches have been taken, but if you look at the football we playing, the financial stabilty we have and teh success this is generating, they must being doing something right... and ultimately that is what matters' Naturally the media would pick out 'I dont quite understand why some of these approaches have been taken' -and add a headline or 'LM criticises NC appraoch' .... thats teh reason why its best to keep completely quite or just do live interviews where there is less chance of being had... although both MLT and FB seem to have almost relished the chance to comment... just dont get it. No one WANTS to criticise LM, MLT or FB. Their contribution to our history can not be taken away. But by commenting in the media in such a way as to leave themselves open to either a live 'comment' or quotes that can easily be misinterpreted, they create the problem. Its no surprise that given the way our media operate, that NC is very cautious, keeps his own counsel and only uses official channels for communication. That way he knows his comments cannot be manipulated to suit the story. I just wish MLT, LM etc would do the same. Otherwise it gives the perception that they dont care if the media turn it into a continued story of friction... and thats what's embarrasing.

This whole thing just boils down a simple question... does someones right to express their opinion at all times supercede whatever damage perceived or otherwise expressing it might do? And I guess at what point on teh scale does it tip over that edge? LM has not siad anything publically that is likely to cause offence or damge, but some have suggested that he might have been behind the od leak or comment - Ther is no evidence at all to suggest he was a source of the stories, but there is no denying that made up stuff in the press about the club being for sale just at the time of the club negotiating a new sponsorhip contract could have done damage. If you look at it objectively - how would folk feel if it had been confirmed as say Lowe who fed the story at that time? What I am saying is, there is a tendency to be more forgiving towards Matt and Lawrie because of there undoudted contribution - we grant them this slack because of their hero status... I think the point I would make is I dont make the distinction between the individuals but would tend to judge more on the action and its effect irrespective of who said it etc.. I will probably get a slagging for that, but its a point of principle. On the other hand I would love nothing more than for LM and Matty to up in teh directors box swigging the champagne with NC week in week out - its ashme they cant get over whatever issues they have with each other, but that seems to be the way of it.. neither will back down, so fans are left to argue in the middle.

An award that was thoroughly deserved for all The big Man has done for the club and the service he has given. Hopefully, maybe this may draw a line under the silliness of the media digs - I KNOW LM is just expressing an entitled view, and that he has Saints wellbeing in heart and on sleave. I KNOW that not everyone is happy with some of the approaches being taken, and I am sure that its difficult for the them all to see eye to eye - sometimes its just the way personalities and egos can clash...and they are pretty big on both sides... but given that the public clashes have really been about relatively trivial things, cant it just be put to bed and the two sides agree to disagree? All parties want what is best for saints, they just have different ways of going about it. I dont believe there is anything irrepairable over the long term - but maybe its best that for the time being, at what is a very crucial stage, everyone forgets about the disagreements and gets behind nige and the lads - surely more important than any of the ego clashing nonsense of the past few months?

My favourite so far have been those who are making a judgement on this based on a 'moral crusade' - how it goes against the bais of our 'christian values' that have been around for about 2000 years... jeez. 'Civilised and intelligent societies' evole. They learn. They grow up and recognise that dogma created in the past when less was known or understood, needs to be viewed in that context. It has feck all to do with PC, or PC gone mad or following what everybody else thinks. Read what you just said. 50 years ago, Elton could not even come out without ending up in Jail, 30 years ago the majority laught at 'love thy neighbour' and the 'Black and White' minstrals - Now teh majority find these things apalling because society has 'learned and grown up' - Feck all to do with liberalism, but the main positive that sets humans apart from the less evolved animals - that we can 'think' and react quickly to wrongs in society, learn from teh mistakes of the past and move forward. Yes there are a generation who struggle to adapt - old dogs and new tricks springs to mind, but they are now in the minority. You talk about rights and fredoms to express your opinions. Yes that is the benefit you have as a result of a more civilised and demographic society. But as Joenssu put very well, if that right is used to shout down teh rights of others - then quite rightly it should be exposed for the ignorant, bogoted bullshiedt that it is, and those expressing it shown to be what they are - unitelligent morons - because the message they spout is no longer acceptable in a 'grown up' and civilised society. A few hundred years ago, you could marry your 12 year old cousin legally, now that is unacceptable on two counts, the underage element and the close realationship element that has been shown with advance of genetics to account for deliterious recessive gene combinations causing major problems in any offspring... we learn, we move on and society is better for it. In effect what some of you seem to be spouting is that you would defend someones's right to marry their 12 year old cousin because that is their view, even if society in general thnks it a bad thing? - It's basedsame principle based on the garbage that you are spouting Turkish. But perhaps the 'moral' is the most worrying - because there is sadly nothing worse IMHO than blindly following a 'moral code' whoever wrote it , 2000 years ago, and accepting it verse and line a something that is ALL correct today - yes there are good things about that 'christian' moral - but there is also planty in there that is made up and no longer valid in a society that has learned, grown and matured. Afterall the good book tells us its fine to sleep with our wives' unmarried sisters if our wives are 'barren' - see if that gets past your missus as an excuse! (Oh and before you tell me that its not right to pick and shoose which bits of this moral code we can keep and thsoe we can ignore.... the churches have been doing that ever since they could no longer frighten folk with hell and damnation - and how they suddlenly flip to saying its no longer literal, but metaphorical... seems they want to have their cake and eat it.....

Think we need to put that one to bed... Ithink whateer we think about teh relative merits, its impossible to do the 'what if' and try and predict who would finish higher - I think we all know thnat the reason he was dismissed had little to do with the results on teh pitch and more to do with his ralationship with NC - I also get the perception, that AP was not seen as someone who could 'grow' with the side , who would get the new U21 thing etc... just speculation... but i think NC wants everyone to 'get with the program', and I suspect AP was perhaps of a different opinion. If we achieve what NC is expecting he will be proven correct in his decision, thems the harsh judgement calls in this 'beautiful game'

TBF thjough teh politics has not stopped because grievences and dfferences of (entitled) opinion have been aired very publically by some - and maybe its just coincidence that those that have done this were two big names BOTH involve dto some extent politically in the past?- yet the club has kept quiet in an effort to avoid the politics. Its funny how both sides are actually making the same same point - that no one is above criticism ... unless its a hero..or unless they saved the club... same principle, polar opposites... NOBODY IS above critisism... Cortese, MLT, Lawrie etc... all should be open to critisim when they feck up... The question has never been about blindly following Cortese and not accepeting taht things have maybe been sometimes mishandled, for me it been WHY have a couple of our heros (who just happen to be the two most involved in the previous politics) chosen and continue to chose this time to criticise in public? I just dont understand why and what tehy are hoping to achieve - th last one with Stelling pushing Matt on tickets was cringe worthy and pointless... whether they ahev a point right or wrong is not the issue, but teh methods used to make it and the timing which simply suggests that they are still 'politically' active... to me that is disspointing. NOT because Cortese is beyond critism, but becasue its another distraction from the job in hand, especially compared to the way things went under Lowe, Wilde, Crouch, Hoon, Wilde/Lowe we have a stable forward looking regime that is making things happen - I think its a valid question to ask - but are things now looking better ON the pitch simply because the club is doing more things right than wrong for the first time in ages... and is that because it HAS shed some of the 'personalities' and 'ego's that had thier own thoughts on the way things should be done - fair enough, but look where we were whilst they were a 'presence' in the club, supporting one faction against another? To be honest, I do actually believe that the turn around has not just been about money - but about a change in the way the club is structured, and managed - its slicker, no 'dead wood' etc whilst this change will undoubtedly have caused ripples of discontent amongst staff initially, especially those who were now surplus to requirements, in the long term the results are evident on the pitch - 'you dont make a cake without breaking a few...etc' but if the recipe is right us as fans will get to taste a decent result. For it seems that in the past we had 'too many cooks' - trying to encourage recipes from the past - afterall us fans had enjoyed their cake previously so why should their recipes be ignored now? And we have loads of fans, perhaps more from the 35+ generation that still hanker after some of these recipes, liked those chefs and perhaps find teh current cake a little too different form what they are used to? So for tehm thier favourites can do no rwrong and whats with this young upstart wanting us to eat Panatone? OK stupid cake/chef analogy, but All I would ask is that we are all prepared to try the cake - Lawrie and Matt included (and Matt lets be honest never had a problem with cake)... If Don Cotese gets the recipe right, we can all have our cake and eat it ! ;-) ... too much wine/beer methinks...

Whatever happened the Russian Kid... who never got a work permit who did well in the academy side....

I appreciate that the sniping is not actually that harmful - nor is it of any real impotance apart from being an annoying distraction, but several posters have implied that 'NOTHING' should/could take anything thing away from Matts/Lawries status if you are a real fan (Hypo)... I am just curious to know what would in your opinion erode that status... would they actually have to do real damage to the club in some way for this hero status to change? What if we heard Lawrie or Matt saying that in their opinion Chamberlain would have been better to go to a 'bigger club? would that have done it? Its just as Weston pointed out, the recent 'critism' on Sky seemed planned - and although entitled to their opinion as we all are, what is the aim of these remarks, just what are they hoping will be the outcome? From those defending the explayers and mangers etc who are publiclly critical, what is your take on why they are doing it? Do they have a long term plan? Do they think it will help their cause, because from wher I am sitting its simply dividing a message board - not much else really.

Do you know what - If this forum has become a home for these ****wit moronic racist dross of society, spreading their vile and hatefilled propoganda... I'm off. These ****s are simply too stupid to listen and learn, and niether do they want to as they obviously have nothing worth while going on in their sad little lives that they need to fill it with hate. Pathetic.