Frank's cousin

Your post is good, except for this strange comment - Maybe its a different planet thing, but dont believe all the stuff Poyet says..... even in L1 we played a pasing game when possible and it seems a bit strange that when you visited SMS your 'fine footballing side' parked the bus in front of goal... We have always said Our side would be reasonably well suited to teh Championship because more teams DONT park teh bus and try and play football which in turn allows our creative midfield to actually play - did you not see the way the goals were created against Ipswich? NO for some strange reason Poyet's cvomment seems to have ingrained itself into some of your fans minds - we are about as far from a 'physical' side as Brazil 70 (not that we cant mix it up if we need to), but Poyet just got that plain wrong in his frustration at getting beat. Also, Get a grip about Adkins comment - he said it in response to a question about whether we could keep up with or challenge Brighton - it was tongue in cheek but what was he meant to say, something demotivating like REdcrap along the lines of 'no impossible, too far behind?' NO he said something aimed at Saints fans and players - keep pushing, belief and positivity like any good manager would - fact is Poyet took the hump and has been slagging us ever since... Brighton are one of those clubs whose situation meant 99% of all football fans felt for them... especially the way your club was reduced to bare bones by greedy owners - and you have risen at last from that nightmare, so I just struggle to see what some of those numpties really have an issue with... just strange that's all..

Have to laugh.... that Skate site does reveal a combination of bitterness and stupidity - with the odd decent fan trying to offer a blanced opinion - seriously thay must be as stupid.... The annual accounts do indeed show a liabilty all to ML (now his estate) which is typical for such privately owned enterprizes as it is better for tax reasons etc and is equivilent to the money paid for the club - The day to day finances show we are working within a budget that is affordable for our income with Liebherr Estate funding certain projects such as Staplewood etc. Although NC is quite rightly quiet on these issues (it is afterall the way the Swiss do business), He did at one time hint that its Markus left 'provision' in his will for the club, and that he had already sought assurnaces from the family that they woudl continue to support MLs vision. Now it may well be that eventually they do wish to sell the sell the club. However, The great thing for saints will be that we will be sold as a club that is debt free, has a solid infrastructure and a great potential to be an established prem clunb once more. I am also convinced that both the family and NC would not sell to some two bit russians of dubious charater or local numpties who leverage the club to pay for the purchase... I genuinely believe this not out of some false sense of wishful thinking, but because EVERYTHING ML and NC have done both previously and with Saints has been honorable and with a strong sense of ethics and integrity - ML was reknowned in business for having supported the growth of his companies WITHOUT ever borrowing or getting into debt, but through wise investment (as we see now with Staplewood) - So even if the long term aim was/is a sale, we can rest assured that teh reason they will make a good return is because they have Built a viable, and strong business that will be a very attractive proposition - sure there is the risk that any future buyer might cock it all up/play thing/flease teh club etc... I have no crystal ball... but given the closeness of the friendship between Markus and NC, The integrity they have shown to date, I can only see such a sale going ahead if we were placed in the 'right' hands. To pompey I say this: I believe its disgraceful the way various owners have treated your club - and I would forget about idolising Mandrich as a'real football person' - he is like most only in it for the money, otherwise he would have done far better due diligence before selling out to the various complex owners that followed - or did he not care about you once he took his 30 mil? We were VERY lucky in finding ML, we cant deny that. BUt I will say again, despite what most Saints think, we were worth a punt by ML and NC because in the past someone took teh decison to invest in infrastructure and was willing to do this despite the often very vocal calls from many fans for more spending or 'investment' in the first team - money for transfers to line other clubs pockets and huge wages that just dissappear - sure he got the balance wrong, but the legacy was that we appeared on the NC radar as a good proposition... remember a 30K seater stadium is now going to cost in excess of 100mil... I genuinely hope that one day pompey get a decent owner who is prepared to develop their club - football needs decent rivalries (without the stupid hatred) - but what goes around comes around - if their club really wants to attract someone who is ethical and insightful about what the club means, the club needs to exorcise about 120 mil demons first - accept what has happened as wrong and make amends - maybe then they will find more folk willing to see them as genuinely worth developing. The denial and bitterness leaves a very bad smell hanging over the place and thats is never goiung to attract a genuine white knight.

Thing is as much as I enjoy a good wind up of the blue few (liek any self respecting Saints fan) and that there can be no argument against the fact that however 120 mil of debt was accumulated, ultimately the fact that that it was allowed to through excessive and unaffordable transfers and wgaes is in effect cheating... I would also like to undrstand the TRUTH or FACTS of the case (m'Lord)... without going back through a million posts, it has been indicated by some of the Blew Hugh (sic) that they have no idea how this debt accumulated as they were selling so many players and this money has dissappeared? That they had no knowledge of this and no control over such boardroom antics is their case for the defence... uHm, well my question to the defendents would be something along the lines of... 'Did those fans travelling to Wembley on not think it a little strange that their club was indeed purchasing internationals on wages in excess of 80k a week on a 20k gate and small local sponsor - when there had been no indication of any monies being 'donated' to the club by its owners - at a time when it was being reported in the press that the club already had debts in excess of 30 mil and had failed to pay the tax man? Where was the supporter outrage when in the knowledge that 'arry had storieteller had committed the club to contracts they siumply could not afford? Or like 'arry was it fine to pretend they had no knowledge of the situation - when even the a small scrotal crab currently in residence on teh left testical of the most stupidest of all stupid men could clearly see a club with a 20K gate had no business making those kind of signings... not once but many many times...?'

What's silly though is that our NIge was just reponding 'tongue in cheek' to an interview question when asked if we could keep up with/challenge brighton - some of their fans fail to grasp that this was indeed tongue in cheek and in response to this specific interview comment... the issue that they think our 'physio' is using Pardews 'team' is limited to a few mongs who fail to see that Morinho was an interpreter! I have never had an issue with Brighton - if anything they should and could be a similar profile of club to Saints - they are on the up so what is their problem? They have to acknowledge that the media will always focus on those clubs that have most success at any given time regardless of history. That's life. Of course rivalries are importatnt to the identifty of a club, but they are closer to Gillingham! - I guess their issue is that they are the only club in Sussex or Kent that have ever flirted with league and cup success outside the might Margate taking on Spurs in the cup ;-) Finally, they do seem to believe everything that comes out of Poyets gub... all tat guff aout us hoofing... LOL... given how they parked the bus last season at SMS it is even more laughable.

TBH... WTF? Why Are grown men still having this 'my cock's bigger than your cock' ******? Who gives a ****? EVERYONE knows that attendences at ALL clubs fluctuate depending on the division, form, economic climate, weather, time of year, and general positivity about teh club, teh buzz etc... afterall for many if things are hopelessly shiedt, its ****ing with rain, and you are skint after a summer hols or christmas excess... some things have to give... its not rocket science. This whole infantile facination in football with the 'size' of ones club is frankly idiotic, pathetic and illustrative of blokes with small tadgers needing something 'big' to hang their ego on... who really gives a flying feck? You could take any L2 side from a city where there are say 250,000 + inhabitants, give them a 35000 seater stadium and if promoted to the prem they woudl fill it if ticket prices were not stupid - people liek to be associated with success which is why half the fecking country supports Man U/Chelski from the armchair. Get a fecking life - I dont give a flying feck how many attend our or pompeys games - Judge the club by the way they are run and the way they play the game - buying success on credit or 'cheating' is the thing I hate most...followed closely by those clubs like Man City who are following Chelski down the same stupid wage/transfer buying of success - as Pompey attempted a few seasons ago... but without the the rich Billionnaire actually donating the cash. Looking at our books, i for one am glad we have NOT gone stupid in either the transfer or wage brackets despite having the clout to do so.... are Leicester the next club to go back into admin if they fail this year? .. for the umpteenth time?

Think we have been excellent... but before we get carried away, we need tio remember we have several advantages beyond a good squad - 1. They have played together for te most part for 2 years, 2. Nige has done something right in preseason - we look fitter, motivated and together, 3. the momentum of the promotion campaign etc. We still need to work on defensive frailties - on another night we could have missed alot of those chances when luck goes against you.... and as many have pointed out, I suspect that especially when playing at home we will now see more parking of teh bus and 'in your face' tactics employed against us - certianly I suspect Millwall will 'let our creative players know they are there' - exactly what I hate about football as teams play to out muscle the opposition rather than playing to their style... but hopefully we have enough about us to combat that as well having learned from the L1 experience. If we can mix it up as well (as much as I hate that thought when we are playing some lovely passing football) - we could well be there or there abouts come May - This squad probably does need a decent CB, but even without if they can stay fit and patient when against teh parked bus and out think teh oppositio, we could well 'do a Norwich' - will be an interesting season. I still think there are several sides that have 'done a Saints of old' and are just slow out the box and will improve dramatically as teh season progresses, so whilst its great to have the 9 points in the points in the bag - its going to get a lot tougher.... but under NIge and NC I say Bring it on!

If he gets results like we have been having (on and off the pitch) without 'any retail, footballing or customer service experience' ..., cant wait to see how we will do when he 'gets some' - ;-) Maybe... folk should also factor in the current economic climate before we read too much into ST sales whatever they may be.

Very much agree - criticism is right, even if a little trivial at times and is something that all fans are entitled to. Maybe its a legacy of the old days, but I must admit, I am perhaps just a tad suspicious of the way in which some of the criticism is so bitter at times... maybe its just a perception of hidden agenda that is awoken by my paranoia ;-) Who knows, but there still seem a few for whom there is almost an orgasmic glee when they find something to be able to criticise NC for, same as there was for many under Lowe... maybe its a fear/hate of anything/one in power? Maybe its a few who would only be happy with teh club just owen by fans? Thats a fair enough opinion, but needs to be weighted against teh realities of what woudl eb achievable under thsoe circumstances and the answer is mid table obscurity in the lower leagues....

Dont think ambition was ever lacking - its not lacking really at any club.... its the availabilty of funds to finace it that gives most clubs the grief... But good to see none-the-less.

Nope... wrong - look at the books and you will see that when we were in the the transfers in pretty much equalled the transfers out. The books were balanced on the whole - no bad thing. Again some see this as some sort of 'apologist' bollx.... I will quite happily say that those who so much ingrained hatred for teh bloke seem fecking sad to me. He was an egotistical tosser for sure, but so what? We had some good times - but for many at the time when those around us were borrowing heavily and we were not, that became a major issue. What of 'attractaing investment' - well we were a PLC FFS, and like it or not with that comes certain restrictions - principly teh dilution of teh shareholding should someone come alomg with 20 mil or so to pump in - and given that Lowe had what 6%? If teh majority of shareholders had been in favour of such a dilution of their holdings in return for some cash to 'invest' there woudl have been feck all Lowe and his cronies could have done about it (as we saw with the Wilde Coup - Lowes pals were around 29% of the shareholding) What never stops to amaze me is that folk make such a song and dance about photos, monogramed training kit and the like -FFS why was that even an issue? It shoudl never have warranted teh amount of pathetic infantile crap that it did, and its interesting to see teh two faced ****e about this now we have a picture with ML and NC in the photo.. It makes feck all difference and If I owned the club, to bloody right would I be in the picture and seriously if some fans wanted to give me ****e about it well feck em. The chairnman should be judged on how the company/club performs on the pitch within the financial restrictions they have to work within. simple. When we had decent revenue form teh Prem, we performed OK given thet we did not go stupid and in debt for players and wages - yes they fecked up big time with managers and stupid buys, but that is another issue and you wont see too much defence of that, even if there are those that still to this day find it impossible not to acknowledge that not all the changes were just down to one man... I just find it almost hilariously funny that grown men with serious anger issues still seem to find it necessary to 'hate' - FFS grow up, its sport, football not life and death (shankly was an arse for saying it was more important - even though he was being humourous, the fact so many have it as a mantra is quite frankly ridiculous). Jeez

I like the NEW Alps! ;-0

The difference between an ethical club and one that does not give a flying feck would be my guess (although we all know Lowe was desperate to keep some shareholder value and avoid admin) we feilded wahat we could afford - pompey will bleat, moan and whinge and get in loans to meet league requiremenst as suspensions and injuries take hold... and the FL will grant them those emergency loans as we all know due to a lack of vertebrae

Na.. think that was Matty in his last season ;-)

I know what you are trying to say - sort of... but the point was he had it spot on in terms of balancing the books - The vast majority f fans on here have rightly IMHO been highly critical of our friends down the road who went about looking for success on credit. At the time Lowe was here, many felt we should do the same... 'investment after the cup final' is the classic rhetoric. Yet no one has indicated where that cash for investment should come from? We had a polocy that ensured we lived within our means - which I believe is the RIGHT way to run a club. Its only because so many otehr clubs dont that it gives the perception we were not spending enough. IMHO the amount of spending/investment was RIGHT as it was what we could afford. What was wrong was the how it was spent as I mentioned and it is possible to seperate the two issues Finally, you touch on another interesting point - wage structure. Yes it was possibly too rigid, which meant it was difficult to attract ... those not happy with 20K a week + bonuses... I am sure there will be diverse opinion on whether that ceiling was right or not, but given we have all just been moaning about 'greed' on the AOC thread it seems almost hypocritical in some respects - If players leave for more money they are greedy bastards - yet if we dont pay them stupid money its wrong? There were many issues with Lowe - and rightly so - plenty of footballing errors of judgment in terms of manager situation and in how avaiable cash was utilised, but there are also many 'myths' and made up ******, that have been attributed simply because it was convenient to do so and of the strength of feeling against him. The ability to keep teh books balanced is one of the things he should at very least be acknolwedged for. Afterall, that is what all clubs should be aiming for - and if they did the playing field would be a lot more level. I would go further that UEFA are doing - my 'test' that all clubs books would need to show, is that they are sell financing with all contracts in place even if any benefactor was to withdraw/sell etc... sadly the clubs have too much power and this is never likely to happen, but I say it again, I think its right we strive for that balance. We currently 'owe' ML estate. I would like to see that paid back before we start going mad in the transfer market

.. a few inconsistencies, myths all used to provode an excuse... As I understand it teh so called 'strike; was a long time ago and that even up to the 1950's it was common for fans of both clubs to also visit and support the the hampshire clubs when their side was playing away - Football only became a vehicle for 'hate' during the 60's and 70's when we saw a bored generation of 'teens' looking for some tribal unity... and the rest as they say is 50 years of bull**** and soem sort of frankly pathetic need to have an enemy to hate... Personally I dont give a flying feck about them... yes their recent 'theft' and financial stupidity is dispicable, but i know do know many Pompey fans who have become disillusioned by that fiasco and stopped going, because tehy are ashamed of what the club became...

Ok... Good deal by NC in a situation that wa inevitable. No I dont blame anyone for 'cashing in' as if we are all totally honest what would we do... but there does come a point where 'greed takes over' - eg if you are earning 250K a year or so at 17, knowing that in a few ears time you will be on 3 or 4 mill a year... whats the rush? Also I am sure given teh way his dad (agent) was speaking in the media and the 'courting' by several clubs, I am sure we would in some respects have had a good case for 'tapping up', but like anyone in football with power really has teh balls to do anything about those issues.... Finally, we need to be realistic now. I honestly do not expect to see the club suddenly spend a fortune - I dont even think we will see anything else in signing terms this season... maybe a splash on youth or something in Jan if it looks like we are in the running - I believe NC will want to pay a chunk of the ML loan back, so we ease into debt free situation and with a strong and healthy balance sheet, that supports the long term vision. IMHO this is the RIGHT way to go about things - if we want to be seen as an example and have the moral high ground when it comes to criticising the Skates and otehr clubs who 'buy' their success on credit, then we need to practice what we preach. I know that there will be some who will be on NC's back if we dont suddenly spend big, but all that would be doing is setting us up for a fall in the future. We are NOT in the prem...yet... and our revenue is still largly dependent on the gate, so lets support a common sense approach and take pride in the fact that beciuse we invested wisely in a strong academy, we have arguably seen some of the best recent talent develop and create a great advert for saints. Even for those really cynical few who believe for some weird reason that the 5 year plan is to sell the club in the prem for a profit - If NC does that it will be bvecause we are a VERY atractive proposition, debt free, fantastic infrastructure and strong reputation for sound aand ethical business practice build on attractive football and youth.... so what would be wrong with that? I certainly cant see NC selling to some joker lot leveraging the club against third party debt... I honestly believe we are in very good hands.

Did you not see the ;-) ? You just have to recognise that its the the perception these posts give, even if you are on the bus... because I am not sure waht else we are meant to read into them given that the rational for many of these decisons, is often very clear, even if not universally appealing?

Lowe on the cover - irrelevent Wilde on the Cover - irrelevent Cortese on the cove - priceless Just because it s really funny watching grown men make such tits of themselves believing its actually important enough to argue over on a forum... LOL

For me, the best thing that has happened to the club since ML and NC took over is that its placed or recent history into some sort of context - Its also made the majority consider how football clubs are run think more positively about the need to have a decent level of common sense and business attitude at teh helm... which many were actively against during the Lowe years. Roger - you dont say anything that is new, and certainly when taken in that context they are not things that sit compfortably with many fans - I would also suggest that they are exactly the things most would have murdered Lowe for, had he introduced such things - and thats the crux. Supporters DO want success first and foremost, not at any cost, but certainly they are happy to 'overlook' such things when everything si going well... yet as Lowe saw, the moment things turn against you on the pitch, all teh little gripes that have been stored up come back to haunt you.. are are used by those more active agenda driven fans to drive a wedge between the board and fans.... The biggest irony is that NC is closer in style and direction to Lowe than any of 'fan friendly types' whose good intentions were ruined by **** poor performance. And thats what seems to ensure that there as small section of fans who will use all these small annoying things to try and build a case - simple because ultimately they do not believe that football should be run in such a way - They are idealists in most cases, believing in fan involvement and community based clubs - all valid opinion and reasonable ideals - BUT IMHO, the reason why I did not have any real issues with Lowe (with the exception of when he opened his mouth to trty and 'engage with fans'), and will also ignore these small irritations, is because: 1. The club is being managed with controlled spending - not financial stupidity 2. The investment in infrastructure and youth builds for the future - both in players for the first team and as a revenue source for teh very best talent (sad as it is,tha's always going to happen) 3. He is not afraid to make tough decsions - some will be wrong, some will hurt fans, but they are part of a strategy and he will stand or fall by his decsions - and that is the strong leadership that is needed for success - the alternative fan friendly approach of Wilde and CRouch et al, whilst more appealing on teh surface, and certainly more engaging, has been shown time and time again to be ineffective. 4. We got promoted last season 5. We just spanked Leeds 6. There is a sense of unity at teh club, and that is only achieved by ensuring those there are all on the same wavelength - to get that it does mean harsh decsions to remove dead wood or those not happy with the change 7. we just spanked Leeds - needed to say it again as it justifies another beer He is never going to appeal to all - but those who keep trying to pick holes are a small number and only impact on the majority if things go badly. No problem with keeping things all in perspective, or even ensuring there is a bit of 'ongoing surveilance' on how things work at teh club... but those few are constantly rehashing these minor things give off the perception that they are WANTING the club to fail, to justify their opinions on NC, and use that to reinforce their own views on how clubs shuld be run... thats what many find odd to say the least. The modern game, like it or not, IS a business. Those clubs that reciognise this and run themselves accordingly are the ones who will ultimately reep the rewards. The rest fall into two categories - community clubs, with cheerful local businessman made good fan owners, who are great clubs but will alwys be lower league and conference or those that have no business sense whatsoever and are run by those happy to risk an entire club on a quick success strategy to try make a quick buck - and as the Skates have seen, we all know where that ends up.... So Roger, Get on the feckin bus ;-)

This was introduced because there were fans getting in on the old 'credit card' STs then getting several of tehm from mates, exiting and going abck in with aload of freeloaders - so the one entry - 1 voucher was necessary when we stopped 'selling out' when relegated to the Championship... the current cock up in effect allows that to happen again, if there are a load of vouchers floating around - the ONLY way the teh club can overcome this is is to void all booklets and reprint a new design and send out again... I suspect the printers have been given a huge bollocking from the club and may well be having to redo them... Also, I suspect that tey ticket office will have hired additional staff to send all these out, so maybe not all checked... I suspect its just one batch or ST booklets, but teh club should issue a statement of what is wrong and how it will be resolved - NB. I am fully supportive of the club but will be critical it its warranted... but there doe seem to be some who use everything to have a go... Mistakes happen and teh club NEED to put it right, end of. NOt sure it needs the hysterionics mind...

A couple of points: 1. Yes many Premiership clubs have major debt and in many of these cases, just like Pompey, the debt has been accumulated through buying players they simply could not afford and paying wages beyond what is reasonable for a club of that size. The excuse that others are doing the same, is not one that washes with me. Most Saints fans will probably hate me for saying this, but its probably the one thing I admire Rupert Lowe for. He refused to borrow money to buy players or play stupid wages - preferring to invest in infrastructure and the acedemy. As a result we tended to break even each year, had cash reserves and paid dividends on any small profits we made - and Saints fans must acknowledge that they hated Lowe for it - wanting to see the kind of spending seen at other clubs. Ultimately because we did not borrow (cheat ( and yes I consider all clubs that borrow amounts greater than their asset values in stupid attempts to gain success or stay up to be cheats)), and spend big coupled with a some seriously stupid errors in the manager department by the board - getting in cheque book (prefer cash)Charlie in form your place being one of them - it cost us a place in the prem - see we were relegated BECAUSE we lived within our means... Yes we had a change of board that decided to spend a bit of cash (that we had) IMHO stupidly on a promotion bid, with it not working, we lost 3 mil or so as we still had some players on prem contracts that we had not been able to sell, or had the 50% salary clause -.... so what did we do then... did we spend more? Did we sign up more players on wages that would increase the debt? NO, Lowe came back, shipped out everybody, and ordered a cheap dutch duo to play kids as they were cheap... now he may have been doing this to save his shareholding, rather than through morals, but the FACT is that the club did everything it could to not only live within its means but also REDUCE the small debt we had - all the time, as previously stated, never missing a mortgage payment, never missing a TAX/HMRC payment or players/staff wages or bills... which agin meant we spent feck all on players and were relegated again... ARE YOU getting it now? Its not about your FA cup run, or your warped thinking that somehow we are envious... its about your inabilty to accept that IT WAS WRONG, just as its wrong that those other clubs mentioned are building debts beyond what is acceptable and are also 'cheating' those clubs who live within their means from a place in the prem or in a cup competition - accept it. The FA and prem league had an opportunity to finnally get clubs to sort their finance out, yet were spineless... as always as dominated by other debt ridden cheats at the tree.... so you to date have gotten away with it and that is what makes me angry I am sorry but your figures do not 'add up' - Your purchase prices for players only reflect what the other clubs received, not what else was paid in sign on fees, agent fees and whatever.. I have no idea whether anything dodgy happened as well to compound the situation, but frankly that is irrelevent - because a club with a 20K gate, even with the Sky monies and a cup run of 2m (yes they are LOW) must be out of its mind spending like you did to build that squad...absolutel stupidity.... and to say it was caused by the world financial crisis is absurd... the source of Gaydamaks 'wealth' - is at best 'ambiguous' and I suggest there was never a chance he would be in a position to bankroll 120mil of spending (remember spening on TOP of that, within your turnover)... which brings us nicely to the final moral/ethical point - were you happy celebrating a cup win funded by the Gaydamaks millions anyway, given the source of their family wealth?

When the feck did schools in the UK start having Proms? ArgHh.. It's inevitable that language evolves, but the pace is what makes it so noticable and thus so annoying to many... and dont get me started on the 'kids' trying to be US 'Gangstas'....

Dont get me wrong... I also know plenty of Pompey fans who have become so dissilusioned with teh whole mess, they gave up their STs. For me this has never been about most fans - after what can fans do to influence the way the directors behave... no its the many seem to defend it... or suggest that what has happened elsewhere is on any kind of similar scale or principle. Yes we spent approx 7 mil on players do try and get promoted - but was money we had at teh time... yes it would have been more sensible (IMHO) to keep it for a rainy day, but it WAS MONEY WE HAD... no borrowed from dubious sources but a direct cash injection from the Crouch sale etc. How pfc123 can suggest that Saints doing everything they could to cut costs the moment we began struggling v PFCs continued spending and denial that there was even a problem are on the same moral plane is what I am critical of. I am sure there are many decent Pompey fans who are ashamed of what has happened and for them I have every sympathy - its those that are blind to the fact that their club has to date gotton away with (and actually gloat about that) that I find so distasteful - those prepared to stick two fingers up at the rest of football with their claim...' in years to come the record books will only show we won the cup... all the rest will be forgotten'.... that may well be true, and its what makes this so shameful.

There was one major difference though and we probably wont agree on it, but its worth saying again: I believe there is a MAJOR moral and ethical difference between how we both ended up in Admin - Pompey gambled on on the field success - letting 'arry ' never knew anything about it' swan around wuth tehc heque book to provide himself with some personal glory in a cup win and build his own personal 'legend' so he could get a bigger job - when the notice first appeared of debts of aroun 28 mil, you just kept on spending...and spending, it does not matter who owned you, the spending got bigger and bigger until you could not afford to pay anyone and went bust - chasing success. or... look at it from saints perspective... after some 22 years as a stable top flight club we invested in a new ground and took out finance witha reputable and regulated lender - as a result we were able to reamian reasonably competitive, without setting teh world on fire, but we were BREAKING EVEN and living within our means - paying teh tax man etc... however, we had a bad run and were relegated, the incumbants were ousted and some well meaning, but rather naive directors decided to spend teh revenue generated from SELLING our best players in an attempt get us back up - 7mil - it was wrong and as as a result of it failing, we struggled... please note we DID NOT KEEP SPENDING, and whatyever many think of Lowe, he came back, shipped out as many players as we could and told the cheap managers to play the kids - .... OK he may have been more interested in saving his shareholding, but nonetheless, we were doing everything possible to continue paying our way and reduce costs... we were scuppered by Barclays despite the overdraft having been regularly reduced, having never missed a tax payment, having never missed a mortgage repayment, having never failed to pay staff or players, having never defaulted on monies owed... In the hands of the administrator deals were made with teh main 2 creditors and a price agreed for the club... ALL PAID up front and settled.... Now FFS, surely you can see that there is a slight difference between the scenarios?