Frank's cousin

That could not be more ****** if it were wrapped in a soft leather sack and swinging between the hind legs of a bull... What has been arrogant and blinkered is your ASSUMPTION that these comments actually include you and your reponse is as always littered with misinterpretations... Can you deny that ON THIS FORUM there have been thousands of posts from posters who simply refuse to acknowledge anything other than Lowe being some sort of giant evil orgre and worse? If you do, it suggests that you only read posts from a few on here whenever this subject is brought up.... Also, I am not having a go at Duncan in that post, merely highlighting that it is exactly the type of thing that is often blown from as you say incompetent decision making (albeit naively in Lowe's brain as in good faith) as some sort of masterplan. You may well be very able to to avoid that sort of ignorant leap, but my comments were and are aimed at those who dont.

I think what is frustrating for some of us though Duncan is a quite simple fact... There are plenty of reasons to dislike Lowe... but its when every point mentioned is twisted into some sort of rational to hate him... the above is a prime example... in footballing terms an obvious mistake born out of arogance and perhaps naiviety or just bravado/confidence, but its not evil, I cant hate someone for making mistakes even if they dont learn from them - I guess there are plenty of us who still do the same stupid things day-to day despite the problems they cause us! This is only a minor instant, but its a good example of how fans are a very opinionated and scornful bunch - once the opinion is formed, nothing will change it and every little thing is treated as ....another example of failure and a reason for a qualty slagging.. IMHO

Poorly researched ..sadly, rumour and opinion stated as facts , the usual garbage from the misinformed... I love the ease with which these 'journos' make such 'intelligent' statements that the 'club should have been investing heavily to get promoted rather than cutting costs' during the parachute period - talk about stating the bleedin obvious.... but like so many of these articale it fails to dig deeper and assess were this 'investment' would come from at a time of declining revenues and unlike some of the other clubs mentioned the benefit of these funds being underwritten by a sugar daddy... Its just bol lox. Investing what you cant afford on a do or die promotion push was what Wilde did - and its that risk that set the seeds for administration and further cost cutting ... Lowe, as anyone knows always put cost cutting ahead of spending what we didnt have... and thus we did not have a squad good enough to maintain our CCC status, that is certainly a fact - but I just cant see where the money was going to come from to do anything different... we can slag Wilde and lowe all we like for what were in fans eyes very poor footballing decisions, but it does not answer that question, how were the logical footballing decisions that required investment going to be funded against falling revenues? It was a vicious circle - as costs were cut, performaces declined, as performances declined fans stayed away, as fans stayed away revenues fell, which meant no further investment and further cost cutting until administration... its not rocket science..... We all know the other questions, would we have had better results even with the kids had Lowe kept Pearson? Would this have kept revenues high enough to avoid admin and would we have played well enough without additional players to avoid the drop? Some will say yes, others not so sure, but I do think these articals do no one any favours because they just recycle the standard blinkered view that all will be well if we just invest some cash... without ever asking where it was coming from... Thankfully we bottomed out to such an extent that we were a bargain and were rescued by Saint Markus and we can move on. I just hope though that in future we try and ask ALL the questions, not just those whose answers support our opinions...

UHm...probably get slated but this is one of the biggest problems I have with these posts - too many dont seem able or willing to take Lowe out of the equation and look at the situation objectively.. Whatever... so the moment anything 'positive' is mentioned, its not analysed or debated rationally, but the thread ends up in too often with OTT emotive boll ox that never actually allows decent discussion. Whatever you think of Lowe's spending policy - and many do believe his prudency was stingy and in effect a false economy as it prevented the necessary squad improvements to keep us up, nor was it supportive enough of good managers to make them want to stay - in effect a policy that 'lacked ambition' - the fact is that whether good or bad in your eyes - we did NOT borrow heavily or increase debt on player transfers and wages - as many other clubs have done. We did borrow heavily to pay for infrastructure - whether you think the stadium was down to others or not is irrelevent, because the funding was still needed and this was approved by that board - so in effect you had a board that refused to borrow funds that would inevitably end up in the pockets of players (wages) or agents or other clubs. The merits of that is another debate... but it did mean that our debt at the time of admin was not a result of reckless spending with no assets, but had provided the infrastructure such as SMS - now stadia are only worth the land they sit on, BUT , remember if a buyer is looking at a club, if that is already in place and part of a cost effective deal, it means a hell of a lot considering our stadium would probably cost in excess of 60 mil to build in todays terms... something a new owner does not have to shell out for..... So in no way can we 'congratulate' Lowe for any benefit we get from the new owners, but it is FAIR to suggest that because the board at the time invested in infrastructure /assets rather than wages - following administration we did have more advantages than many other clubs... we also had many disadvantages such as a crap squad, and -10 points and in div 3 if that helps balance things out, but there is truth in there being a benefit to having already got a new stadium that is picked up for a bargain of about 7mil...

Oi Harris - you have had 2.5 years to find us a buyer and brought us diddley squat - and if your bid involved mr Lowe, can you really pretend this was in teh clubs best interests or in teh best interests of those you were representing? Hail Saint Markus - if you have the clubs bets interests at heart you will acknowledge that we have got a very good new deal...

The German langugae paper gives... Ok Guys, will give a full translation a go... Swiss Billionnaire Buys a British club with great Tradition Businessman Markus Liebherr has bought Southamption FC. Nothing about the level of the purhace price for the English Southwestern club has been made known Markus Liebherr is convinced that the takeover presents an excellent opportunity to get the club back to the top. The 'Saints' as they are known amongst English clubs, were relegated to the 3rd tier of english football last season. "Naturally it will need planning, hard work, patience and INVESTMENT to reach that goal. We will work quickly, but plan lomg term," explained the Swiss on the homepage of the club. Liebherr went on to say that he sees his interest in Southampton as long term. He decided to take on the concern, because of the loyal fans, the club's tradition and the very good stadium. The 61 years old Liebherr is part heir to the Freiburg business that bares the same name, that employs 33000 staff manufacturing cranes, Building machinery and refrigeration unitsand turns over 13 billion Swiss Francs. The Liebherr family are originally from Germany and count as one of the Wealthiest in Switzerland, Today Makus Liebherr heads the Mali Group. This is amongst other things involved in manufacturing / engineering and car manfacture. The head office is located in Wettingen AG. Thats a reasonable translation... ;-)

Ok Guys, will give a full translation a go... Swiss Billionnaire Buys a British club with great Tradition Businessman Markus Liebherr has bought Southamption FC. Nothing about the level of the purhace price for the English Southwestern club has been made known Markus Liebherr is convinced that the takeover presents an excellent opportunity to get the club back to the top. The 'Saints' as they are known amongst English clubs, were relegated to the 3rd tier of english football last season. "Naturally it will need planning, hard work, patience and INVESTMENT to reach that goal. We will work quickly, but plan lomg term," explained the Swiss on the homepage of the club. Liebherr went on to say that he sees his interest in Southampton as long term. He decided to take on the concern, because of the loyal fans, the club's tradition and the very good stadium. The 61 years old Liebherr is part heir to the Freiburg business that bares the same name, that employs 33000 staff manufacturing cranes, Building machinery and refrigeration unitsand turns over 13 billion Swiss Francs. The Liebherr family are originally from Germany and count as one of the Wealthiest in Switzerland, Today Makus Liebherr heads the Mali Group. This is amongst other things involved in manufacturing / engineering and car manfacture. The head office is located in Wettingen AG. Thats a reasonable translation... ;-)

Talking of motivation, not really sure what GM's is given that he knows this sort of thing will cause a reaction...I suspect that is it....

Made me smile that did... I cant decide whether you are at times deliberately 'controversial' to get a reaction, on a wind up, or your post genuinely reflect your opinions... all good stuff though as this forum would be very bland without a good mix of characters of all types - see I justcant get miserable anymore, the club has owners who are sound, we are saved and I genuinelyy believe we have a very positive future - will have managers that some ldont like, will lose games and have a moan, but in general we will get back to what we should as fans all be focussed on... long may it continue.

Very true Alps, but we know GM likes to stir up the hornets nest and be controversial... This a forum afterall and now and again there is nothing wrong with a bit of a verbal virtual joust. BUt surely you must see the immense irony in the above comment given your other thread? ;-)

Hey I welcome the fact that we will be arguing about teh relative merits of the Mangers again - not teh owners - because that is something that every football fan does up and down teh country - maybe not at Man U but even at Arsenal - so all will be well.;-)

With the greatest respect to Duncan, and a full appreciateion of the caution and 'over the shoulder looking' - twice burned and all that, I still dont understand why we need to 'discover the truth' etc. The fact is that the administrator is not required to take the 'highest bid' so the whinging from teh failed on that score is frankly sour grapes. As long as satisfactory agreement is reached with the creditors then thats what counts - its also about looking at the deal that is 'most likely' to conclude within a reasonable timeframe and those with the most realistic chance of signing on the line with the bottles all lined up. Yes there is the argument that had the deal been concluded earlier we might not have been forced into selling a couple of players - and therefore its a genuine question to ask why Pinnacle were given the exclusivity period. The snswer though is probably quite simple - at teh time of being given that exclusivity period they were the FIRST to have fulfilled the conditions of the agreement. Now we know that during that 3 weeks, there situation changed. How and what we dont know and are all just speculating - did the backers withdraw, where their caveats incerted into the negotiations between TL and teh backers? who knows - it just changed to the point where Pinnacle were unable to complete a deal.... this happens in business, especially as one as complex as football clubs with many third parties that need satisfying. I am jus not sure what benefit there is now in digging this all up when the it appears that we have a decent result. When Wilde ousted Lowe first time around, my biggest fear at the time was not Lowe going, but the 'unknown' quantity that was Wilde...and CRouch, although to a lesser extent, he held teh balance of power... For that I was given the 'brand' - so do I still worry aboutthe unknown now as Duncan is (a little)? A bit yes, but because its a total clean sweep, there is no chance of the 'mess' that the various share factions arguing caused - we just need to have hope and faith that The strategy that Saint Markus introduces is right for the club and fans - and given his history of building businesses through sound management and strong ethics I think we can finally relax... forget teh past and embrace the future.

It would not surprise me if WGS had been CONSULTED about possible managers/recommendation or being considered for a more DoF role... Surely his good lady must be want him to take some time out and DoF roe could be more part time/less stress - although he prefers the 'coaching' part of the job.. Gut feeling is he may as has been suggested be considering the offer, talking it over with his family etc and that is a GOOD thing because we want someone who is happy, contented and thinking longer term - possibly with a role of also bringing through a number 2 to take teh rains in a couple of years? Come on Saint Gordon, you know it makes sense!

Until Tony Adams is appointed ;-)

The hardest thing facing Cortese et al will be finding someone who appeals to EVERYONE - it cant be done of course, but I doubt they will be want someone with any baggage - new dawn, new era, new broom, whatever...

LOL - especially the bit about Alps! ;-) Made me chuckle, but it is kinda great that we are all pretty happy with the deal

;-)

Nah, hes just under thumb from his mrs - who like sthe south coast ;-) only kidding Kelv, we salute you again sir - even on a second thread

Certainly would be a bit of a coup for us lowly Div 1 types ;-) Fitest squad, play with width, would want a bigger target man in the Beattie Mould... I wonder if he might come in as DoF though or advisor to a younger or foreign coach?

Just dont get why you need to get all wound up every time someone mentions they dont find 'him' to their taste in comedy - Others do, thats their choice. Seems a bit over sensitive to me. Does 'he' believe he will appeal to 100% of people all the time? Sure 'he' can be as proud as he likes, good on him, but that does not mean I have to enjoy/share all his humour, nor does it mean I cant say I dont like it when there is a thread on SMS entertainment. As to my achievements - plenty I am proud of, and not not any less significant to me, just because they dont involve being in the public eye. Look this has maybe gotton a bit out of hand and been taken the wrong way - Its nothing personal against the 'him', just not falling over laughing at his jokes - off all the comedians out there, I doubt there is anyone on this planet who would find them all funny, we all have our own tastes. Apologies to him for any offense caused, but Like I said just not my cup of tea.

Didn't think you would be able to resist.... What a top quality put down, worthy of the man himself... be proud.

Anything as long as its not the not the unfunny comedian bloke... ;-)

I think the difference is that we have been bought as a L1 team on -10 points - not a prem side by someone weho wants a quick fix and instant success. The Liebherr family build their up buisness empire in a little over 60 years based on very strong 'debt free' principles and business practices seem highly ethical... can we be certain that can be said for the Oil Barons of The former USSR? ML could have, had he wanted that ego driven instant suiccess, bought a prem club, or even gone an got Newcastle (albeit a rather poisoned chalice) - what does he do? He buys Saints with -10 points why? Because its a bargain certainly, but I would suggest that in keeping with te family ideals he is a man who likes to build things, build businesses and see teh potential we have if run properly by committed and experienced pros. He will expect teh the business to be financially stable and well managed, but probably eb pragmatic enough to understand we need a bit of a cash boost just now to kick start the recovery... but He certainly wont be using us as aplay thing and trying to 'BUY' the league and success. What this financial backing will allow us to do is grow securely and put down strong foundatiopns rather than a quick fix - it should mean we are more stable for a longer period of time and be better able to susatin a prem place - to liken our takeover by Liebherr to AB is nonsensical really.

The first one is a clasiic of ignorance - the Liebherr empire did not begin life untill 1947 - in little over 60 years its become a 8 billion euro plus business...Markus retired from teh liebherr board to concentrate on his OWN businesses...as for teh blatent anti German prejudice .... I presume hes not a 'close friend'? Second one is quite funny last just jealous - afterall we all know that a club is its fans ;-)

Yes, that would make you a right C**t.