Frank's cousin

Court of arbitration for Sport... then even the High Court but culd take months..

I know I said it with tongue in cheek, and the fact Leon has provided cash at all is to his credit - afterall as many have pointed out he is the only one to do so, but surely if as saintly as some seem to suggest, he would have offered this to the group with the best cahnce of success long term and not the one potentially offering a boardroom seat...? No disrespect to him personanlay as I would probably do teh same having already lost 2 mil on shares, buut its more a criticism of those fans that are falling over themselves to love him for his selfless deeds....

UHm.. Whako Jacko does look a bt like Mama Cass so this is worrying ;-)

So are you suggesting Craouch only provided this money to the group who would let him in? Sorry could not resist ;-)

NOt quite true... Crouch made a public gaff on 5Live when they had Mawhinney on line as well.... CRouch stated that the SLH was only set up to avoid a points deduction should we ever go into admin.... whic was factually inaccurate as well as pure stupid... BUT he has gifted/loaned cash to get us this far which is good, but i cant help but feel that this generosiy would ahve been beetter suited back in March whjich would ahve avoided admin in the first place and the -10 points? I know I will get slated for suggesting it, but I cant help think that Crouch although a fan, still acts in his own interests first and foremost - his way on ensuring he still has a seat at the table after his share loss.... NOw I would not normally ahve a problem with this if the consensus was that it shoudl apply in all cases, but it does not - self interest ahead of the club was one of the biggest criticisms of 'Lord Voldemort'... ;-)

It is interesting - Maybe they should have played it slightly different eg.. if their lawyers felt they had a strong case keep quiet about it... sign teh deal but insist on a clause allowing an appeal say on new evidence coming to light etc? not a legal buff but surely the FL cant be seen to be leveraging the clubs survival against the right of appeal ???

With football league using teh Golden share as leavergae against the -10 point appeal, having MJ state they are ready if pinnacle fails is a nightmare as this gives teh FL the get out clause - eg... Saints wont fail if we stop pinnacle because they have other potential bidders in te wings who might not insist on a right of appeal.... MJ stay away FFS , until its over one way or another... although teh damage is already done IMHO... Why the feck could you not keep quiet and out of the media....Jeez

Alls fair in Love and fighting for your clubs life - the important thing now is the max out the publicity and win teh media propoganda battle that puts pressure on the FL so I think teh above is right and the by having KK linked we keep on the back pages. From a purely independent perspective, I am sure we probably need to accept our medicine, BUT thisis about the life of the club and whether the FL will continue to stand firm - the golden share as leverage in their determination to impose the penalty at the expense of seeing teh club go under or in the hands of Whacko! Jacko saying publically right now that they are ready to jump in is a nightmare - as it givesthe FL a way out....

Thing is UP is he REALLY doing that or reading betyween the lines just blaming those no shows for whatever reason - the dissapointment that comes with the realization that outside the prem we are a lot smaller that we would all like to believe?

Thing is UP is he REALLY doing that or reading betyween teh lines just blaming those no shows for whatever reason - the dissapointmnet that comes with the realization that outside teh prem we are a lot smaller that we would all like to believe?

We could go on and on ;-) - it is TRUE that those boycotting ..genuinely in protest did NOT get the club in debt... what did was the successive boards believeing their strategy could be supported by he fan base... in the first instance with Wilde's (to a leeser extent for sure Crouch) spend it and we will get promoted policy - and if we dont fans will still come as we have seen during teh promotion puch policy - followed by Lowe's get rid of expensive earners, play the kids in anexciting attacking dutch total football way to enterating and that will a) reduce overhead by getting rid of older players/ b) show the 'progeessive way we are run.... etc In both cas they misjudged the fanbase interms of what is required to get the to go - they believed in the blind loyalty that for years we had been saying was the spirit of saints...

Pure class

It OK there will be one way or the other ;-)

Thats fair enough, but i think maybe what he was also trying to bring into the equation is that very difficult question: Fans of any club like to see themselves as teh best, teh miost loyal and the way we show this to the outside world is by demonstrating thsi during the most trying and difficult times, not just during cup finals and prem success - as with all clubs there is always a drop offf the lower you go...afterall how many time on here has someone pointed out that pompey only had 8000 when in the lower reaches of the CCC? - therefore, I think what Steve was questioning was you cant have it both ways - believe we are a big club with 25K plus week in week out support if the moment it gets tough and football crap it drops to 15 K .... and that many of these had that convenient excuse that Lowe was the reason - To be fair that is a valid question even though it will get some fans backs up. I think waht we really need to ask is how many would we have seen attend had we played teh same crap football with the same style and lack of success under anyone else eg Lowe not around - the answer is we woul probably have had teh same lower gates as every other club would have done. As to 'the entertain them and they will come' argument fair enough but it is a bit chicken and egg if you dont have a sugar daddy funding more quality - do we stay away until the team gives us something to cheer about, or do we attend despite the poor fair to ensure the warchest is full and thus we can afford a better class of player - for some its this latter that is important for others it appears the former - whether we should judge each other on that score is another matter. I dont think there is an easy answer, but maybe we just all need to be more realistic about what sort of club we really are rather than basing it on the potential we have or on teh following during past glories?

engage brain please Alpine and take note that there are two SEPERATE questions and this was in no way trivialising...as to agend... yawn...Zzzzzzz Can I ask you what possible 'Agenda' could I have, I am just a fan witha na opinion who enjoys using forums such as this to express it - how can this be an Agenda? Pleae you have lost me ....

engegae brain plase Alpine and take note that there are twoSEPERATE questions and this was in no way trivialising...as to agend... yawn...Zzzzzzz Can I ask you what possible 'Agenda' could I have, I am just a fan witha na opinion who enjoys using forums such as this to express it - how can this be an Agenda? Pleae you have lost me ....

Sorry thats where we disagree - The club committed to spending 7.5 mill during Wilde first stint - backed by the then football board (of which Mr Crouch was Chairman) and teh PLC board on the understanding that Wilde had made promised of investment - This investment never happened and when we failed to get promoted this left not only the hole of the parachute loss, but also the ever increasing hole due to costs (with new high wage earners) outstripping revenue. Wilde was then ousted and fell out with CRouch, I suspect because was mightly fecked off that the promise of investment were pi ss in the wind - but Crouch needs to accept he should have had this signed sealed and delivered BEFORE spending was approved - The following season saw Burley depart and the overdarft increase as gates began to reduce as the quality of play declined. Crouch began some measures of cost cutting, but stated no one was leaving, and then after a brief flirt of Dodd and Gorman brought in Pearson who surprised everyone and kept uis up onthe last day --- in the meantime Lowe must have though its all going tits up... the OD was still not under control, the cash reserves had been spent and the revenue was falling - So he decided to do something about it - now as fans we all know that this was a mistake because of the feeling towards LOwe - he probably did not even register it yet could possibly have staved off a bit of it by keeping Pearson... I bet in hindsight he would probably reluctantly agree. The only way back in for Lowe was with Wilde and that meant Crouch out - a mess - but buy this time the debt was there, the question was could it be maintained or reduced or woudl it grow? The moment fans stopped going for whatever reason we were doomed as as soon as the big wage earners returned from loan and could not be sold or loaned again we had no way of controlling the cost base...unless we had 25K + at each game and that was not evn possible when we were pushing for the playoffs under Burley --- and the rest is history. Many see this as highly emotional divisive stuff and its easy to get drawn into it in such a way and the whole thing has a sad sense of irony - the fan base at one time criticising Lowe for being tightfisted and too prudent and lacking ambition when in the prem - one of teh reasons for relegation - only for us to end up as a club doing the opposite under Wilde (and Crouch) which compounded a problem - as they say its easy being an armchair chairman - all no doubt thought they were doing what was best.... The fact reamins although not blaming the fans in any way, the only way out would ahve been regular sell outs even under Crouch, because had teh club been doing OK financially I doubt he would have bothered coming back.

NO idea, just going by waht Mark Dennis said on the Radio! ;-)

Heard he was back at home in Hedge end.... the plot thickens when laced with rumour and speculation...and a heavy dose of imagination ;-)

True, but my comment was not aimed at you, just in general - used to feel teh same that NIck was all over the media etc and ' a voice of fans' etc - yet when I met him he's just a genuine bloke - He gets stick simply because he was not advicating 'Lowe out' at every opportunity like Mr Chorley or ridiculing him like the comedy villiain and lawrie Mac.

Money: Rod Stewart ;-) Chair: Le Tiss Board, Lynam, Crouch (Booo), Mac (Boo) ;-), Jones (Boo) Manager: WGS ;-)

Folk give Nick a verbal kicking simply bcause he often says things sme fans dont agree with ... simple opinion really... I dont agree with him alot of the time, but he's a decent bloke and passionate fan.

Think folk have misinterpreted Steve's perspective... and that is a common trait on here when the 'lowe' lord is mentioned in a post - As I understand Steves post its about pointing out that for whatever reason, the biggest factor in our fall into Admin was the reduction in gate. NOw we can argue until we are blue in the face about the causes - whether poor value, poor football, protest or whatever, the truth is that had we had a BIGGER percentage of the fanbase willing to put up with the bad football and the boardroom shenanigans to support the club during its greatest need, we may not have entered admin and not have the -10 points etc. Now if as a result we do find a better and more stable regime at the helm of course froma purely footballing perspective most will see this as worth it, but its still not guarranteed and nor is 'success' - there are frankly too many variables in sport to guarrantee anything - but Steve is rightly pointing out the impact this has had on staff and importantly smaller creditors, local businesses etc that will lose out as a result and for some it impossible to ignore the moral aspects of this. This is not a case of moaning, but of being sensitive to the facts that whilst administration may see MLT at the helm and a brighter future, whatever the 'interest' the club, apart from pinnacle we have not seen any evidence that there were 'numerous' realistic options out there and the potential impact of no deal was VERY great - and that effects staff and fans alike for very different reasons. With luck we will see a new dawn today or in the next few days, but dont for one minute believe that there was not a very real chance of the lights being turned off....

Same as Talk Sport this morning - after Mark Dennis' comments on KK, they actually had the audacity to blame the media for spreading gossip yet had been the most assertive yesterday and this morning that it was happening - priceless! Think what this shows again is that w eknow nothing - which despite being frustrtaing is actually good - because that would be teh professioanl way to do things - no leaks, no rumour, just business and keep stum until you have things confirmed.

Thought I had been quite economical of late ;-(