Frank's cousin

On a purely practical perspective I believe that is correct - however I would add if we had more fans that were still willing to go even though we were crap on the pitch and struggling in the CCC, we would NOT have been so financially fecked... Both of these are FACTUALLY correct. However, what they fail to take into account is that ultimately, a club needs to do two things: 1) understand what it really is that will guarrantee maximum bums on seats under all circumstances - and 2) budget accordingly.... I think Lowe's main problem was quite simply he did not inspire loyalty when the chips were down - I think the vast majority of real fans will support their team through thick and thin regardless of what they perceive as management feck ups in the board room, IF they feel the board is genuinely determined and passionate about success - afterall everyone makes mistakes and in football even the very best best do - Veron at Man U? anyone? LOwe simply did not give this impression and irrespective of whether that was a right or wrong - the perception was that he did not and thats all that counts in the end. All Wilde and Crouch did was feck up on number 2) they got their sums wrong given the risk associated with failing to get back up... then Wilde did his U turn... after it was really too late to do anything apart form farm out high wage earners and HOPE that fans still came along despite the reduction in quality - Lowe mis reads the situation (yet again) and dumps a popular manager and tries a new system - not a bad idea under different circumstances, but a mighty misjudgment not just from a playing perspective, but from a commercial one too as the change from Perason, played into the hands of those who were determined to see him out at whatever cost - the propoganda of 'how **** we had become' and 'not worth supporting under such imcompetent maangement ' 'not giving him another penny to waste' etc - is effective on those for whom the cost is already a luxury expense... and thus misery breeds misery, low gates breed lower gates until Man United come a knowcking... I will still maintain that had more fans simply been less obssessed by the quality of football on offer and more obssessed by supporting come what may, of course we would not have been in the mire - thats not a critique of fans because its the same at every club - we just supplemented it a little by those claiming boycott and gave the rest a convenient excuse. Its not rocket science. I suspect we will see 20k plus for the first few games.... which will fall dramatically should we lose them... thats just teh way it goes and sometimes rather than whnge and moan at those that decide its not worth it anymore, maybe put that energy into convincing new fans WHY its worth the effort and the expence

...tye sad thing is it wont ever happen again, that a small provincila side even in teh prem gets to sign the double Euriopean Player of the year - the reason ? its obvious, but I was intrigued to know that when he signed for saints his wage was about £150,000 a YEAR , which would work out about £10,000 a week in TODAYS terms - when now as well as costing you 80mil to buy would cost you about £150,000 a WEEK nowadays....

Funnily enough in Germany - dad stationed there when it made the main News 'Tageshau' that 'Sowfzemton zay iz zeining der Kevin Keegan from ze HSV' which was doublly interesting as I had sort of adopted Hamburg as my German team when out there so at first sad he was leaving Hamburg then ecstatic when i found out where he was headed! ;-)

You see as appealing as that may be on the surface to many - the ex playesr etc and 'saints connections' - In reality is likely to be total boll ox - you cant create a set up out of passiona dn nostalgia alone - you need NEW and innovative staff that can lead us in a NEW direction and not be bogged down by the past and worried about their hero statyus being ruined by bad results - its way too cliquey and incestuous to have a realistic chance of success.

Whateber the pros and cons, some of you need to get a bit more realistic about the whole 'better candidates thing' - we are now a D1 club which will be paying D1 wages - we are not even ion teh frame by a mile for some of the names mentioned who could easily get CCC jobs or in some cases a prem job... IF the Kevin rumours are true we should be biting his hand off - the name and experience overall will give us a) media attentiona, b) attract players who mifght otherewise waiver, c) generate interest in our revival - sure tactically there are hundeds of others but for charisma and passion adn the association with the club would this be anything other than an exciting coup? Sure we might not always defend as well as we would like but it would eb a real rollarcoaster of a season that would spark alot of renewed interest - come on get with teh KK bandwagon! ;-)

I dont think anyone is being Naive about how 'businesses work' - but I would suggest that the 'jobs-for-boys' approach and this favour rather than just gratitude is perhaps whats held some of our industry back - merit shoudl be the main priority...

Whatever some may think I have no personal issue with Crouch...just dont believe he has demonstrated enough understanding of how to run things as he was, also involved in the problems we faced... you cant hate someone for making mistakes...salthough I know some do, but you acn question whether its wise to continue down that road...as others did about Lowe etc and rightly so in their opinion. I dont think however ANYONE should be rewarded with a seat on the board for financila contributions whatever teh size or loan or gift if that postion is anything other than ceremonial - because in our current plight we need gifted and talented individuals who ae BEST we can get in growing football clubs with limited resources.

Would you say the same about others though? ;-) Seriously it should not matter who is in there and what they are doing IF going forward they do waht is best for teh club - that means being sensible about spending, keeping quiet until media trained) and stopping the sniping about teh past - If we want to go forward we have to let it go sure, but if those who are cynical about LM and LC are prepared to give it a go and get fully behind it, then they also need to show good grace and move on - JOkes about Lowe in a hangmans noose etc, whatever yor feelings or however funny some may find it, are always going to antagonise a few and that is NOT teh pathe to UNITY - they need to forget tehir own personal feelings towards Lowe and the recent past and move on to... IF they can do that, I am sure that example to fans will be followed and unity will be there - If they dont how can anyone expect fans to? Here's hoping.

Its that potential for the 'sniping' etc and the baggage that worries me about LM and LC - LM cerainly should have had the good grace and dignity to avoid being drawn into teh political wrangles and teh baggage that comes with LC will never sit right with everyone - but if we see a 'new approach', the board look forward rather than back, then fair enough - but PLEASE can we not have Mr Unfunny stroling the pitch pre match and at halftime - MLT's mate he may be, but its already looking a bit 'jobs for the boys' if these rumours about LC and LM are true and thats not the 'clean start' many of us have wanted....

Others would say teh same about LC and LM - whats the difference? both are moaning?

I just want to see a few names we dont necessarily know who have some serious understanding and experience of running a club/business

Cynicism and scepticism - we have all been through the mill in recent years and especially these last few months, so no surprise that many are naturally waivering towards those two bedfellows... I have to admit that i too would be feeling exactly the same but for the fact that I know NSS very well and his asociation with Tony Lynam via the charity he runs, and the positive vibes hes has told me about have kept me on the positive side - I dont expect a huige windfall, I dont expect millions suddenly available, I dont expect a sudden shoot up the table, because i dont believe the backer will be willing or (stupid enough) to waste money - what I do expect is survival and a new start - it will be in the hands of the new board to to stabalise and use the 'clean slate' to build a stable club well run financially within its means - that should be enough for us right now and with luck and solid support (given our capacity and facilities) we should be able to grow and progress - alot will depend on the appettite fans have for L1 football - our biggest income stream by far will be form gate receipts so it is now up to us to show we are the club we think think we are and teh fans we would like to believe.

In which case they should simply shut the feck up, surely

UP Just read the this and other Wotte threads...

well I'm the one with a smile on my face... ;-)

I think there is possible the additional dilemma here for amny of us - the personal belief that Wotte despite his professionalism and dignity is not fans choice to take us forward as most dont eblieve he has teh necssary skills or experience - yet many of teh same want to be 100% behind MLT and pinnacle when that goes through as its important we all get behind the new deal - possibly even if it included Wotte in some coaching capacity... I think thats why some dont ahve a problem with him staying in a different role. Also, it may be that the new regime have a target who is unavailable until say next year or CHristmas and might be looking for Wotte to saty in teh interim...who knows..?

.... unless its a certain kind of Poker .. .just you and 3 ladies... sighs... memories of University days.... ;-)

.... Zzzzzzzz indeed....yawn...

NO worries.. I will say though that its rare these days that we do see dignity - we saw it with Pearson and he has rightly been much praised for that - and although Wotte is not right to lead us on he has also shown those qaulities - I still amintain that in the RIGHT role he could be a useful addition, but taht really all depends on who i brought in and who teh new man is and what set up he wants - If teh new man wants him involved we should support that, if not then thats fine by me to. Chill out on the nerves thing though - I feel it will be a good week. The nly ITK ho is actually worth listening to is my old Skate buddy NSS, I have know him for 6 years and there is NO bull comming from him - he knows Tony very well...so I am not worried, just intrigued as to who teh new owner is... as even NSS wont let on if he knew - way too professional - but he has said we should be pleasently surprised...bring it on I say. Sorry cant be bothred editing and correcting the grammar and typos...

I have it on good authority that the reason for no announcemnet yet is that at this moment teh Mr X., Lynam, MLT and Fry are actually playing pairs with the first to 15,000,000 - its MLTs turn, has all six jokers but no third card - bead of sweat dripping as he' sitting on a pretty big minus score if it all goes tits up? ;-)

Sorry now I am confused... I have never said anywhere that a) Wotte should stay, B) fans cant or should not have an opinion on wotte going, c) fans are not entitled to want Wotte out... in fact I acknowledge he has been out of his depth by the results we have had.... But that is not the same as acknowledging taht he has remained pretty professional and dignified throughout all this - nor should it prevent me from finding it churlish that there are those who ENJOY other people going throgh this sort of crap..and no I did not aim this at you ... finally, not sure if that stability thing was aimed at me or not - as its not applicable - if you read what I say about long term, its not meant in the wya you have interpreted it...

Always alled em clean - Was an Army brat so spent lots of time in Germany as a kid wher my Gran taught be the game - teh Naturals in German are called 'sauber' which is clean in English see... ;-) The discard pile was huge, it was pretty tense and had to tempt the wise old gran by by keeping three 4's in my hand and discarding one - it worked.... kind of felt a bit bad, as my gran used to like a wee glass of something so if you kept her glass topped up, she tended to make more mistakes - seriously the only chance of winning! ;-)

Can also depend on the something else - It may be that Wotte HAS been told he may remain in his academy role - Subject top teh approval of the new manager - which has yet to be decided... hense Wotte rightly saying his role is still up for discussion AND it being corrrect that dignified and professional discussions have taken place...

Pah ! ;-) broke 4000 points including 6 clean canastas - but normally me gran would wipe the floor with me...

In response though 1) NOthing to stop them maybe - except its pretty bad form and not teh actions of a decent and dignified employer to speculate publically when they dont even own teh club yet - I actually applaud MLT and LYNAM and Wotte for teh way they have conducted these discussions in private. 2) True, in which case it may be that he is still being considered for that role which is why as his NOT YET employers nothing can be publically stated by MLT/Pinnacle 3) Slightly different scenario - all clubs take employment proction laws very seriously as they are too much in teh public spotlight to do so, Thats why it costs them the full amount to pay out contracts etc. In this case, because new owners are arriving, other rules/regulations will apply as tehy relate to new owners - in addition, as in point 1, public speculation about omeones job before you even own the club is NOTthe kind of thing I would expect from decent honorable folk who I would like i charge of our club - to date Tony and MLT have lived up to those ideals Finally - teh only ones who seem obsessed with this are those who seem hell bent o seeing Wotte booted into touch in some sort of pathetic schardenfreude joy moment - which suggests they dont get out much - Wotte may not be wahat we want or need long term, but enjoying other folks sheitd doesn't show some of our fans in the best light.