Ken Tone

I think you need to re-write your 'location' statement Art. You seem to feel above every sunshine there is a cloud. K.

We never needed one. That was nonsense supposedly ITK people posted on here when they invented the possibility that pinnacle were fighting a further points deduction. The only possible 'debt' now may be a promise to pay the creditors less now and more later. Pinnacle's bid was repoertedly relatively low to begin with (it became obvious why!) but with promises of further installments if/when we got promoted. As far as I know no one has spelt out the details of Herr Liebherr's deal, but at one stage Fry implied that whoever took over would have to take the form of contracts prepared for pinnacle because there wasn't time to re-cast them. So who knows if Markus has paid all the £12.5 million (?) upfront or is paying in installments? Either way it will have been agreed with the creditors and we will no longer have mortgage or overdraft interest payments to cover. K.

Which is part of the FL's justification for the -10. By going into administration we (eventually!) gained a financial advantage. K.

So maybe this thread will make 150 pages after all? I thought from last night's news that we'd have heard by now of the time of a formal announcement --- the mythical 2pm press conference. k.

No. Unlike chelsea who have borrowed vast sums from Abramovitch (after he bought them from previous owners) to buy and pay players, we won't owe the new owner anything. He will have paid that much to buy us. That money has gone towards paying the creditors some of the money they were owed. Once done, clean sheet. His shares are then worth whatever someone else might want to pay him. The club won't owe him anything, any more than anything else owes its buyer. I bought a newspaper yesterday. It doen't owe me anything, apart from a moral debt to have less irrelevant crap in it about dead pop stars and live soap ones. He could of course choose to lend the club money in future however. K.

He seems to be wealthy enough to be able to invest if he thinks it is worth it, as opposed to being strapped for cash and owing big money back to the bank that he borrowed to buy us like others might have been, and really that is all that matters. Having even a mega-rich owner doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a big spender. Remember all those QPR fans waving tenners at the chelsea fans? Look a bit silly now don't they? Abramovitch *lent* chelsea so much, allegedly in order to move money out of russia, rather than just to improve his 'train set'. I can't think of any other rich owner throwing money at a club since Jack Walker at blackburn, and what he spent would seem peanuts by todays' standards. So the main point in the saints v other club boasting argument is we aren't broke and we aren't owned by a crook, (or, as far as we know yet, a nutcase.) K.

IMO we might have kept Surman, but even for him the draw of premiership would have been strong. But I dso think Kelvin would have stayed ...or is he still going to? Anyone got an update on him? K.

Nah. Best we can hope for today is an indication that all will be revealed tomorrow, with then in the morning maybe some proper leaks (eg name!) and an announcement of a press conference later in the day. So there's still a good 18-20 hours of dedicated posting and F5-ing to go yet. My money is still on 150 pages. K.

Well it's got red and white stripes. What's your problem?! K.

To be fair to the man, I don't think he did give pinnacle any time after the 3 weeks, or at least no more exclusive time. My impression is that he started talking to other bidders again the day after the 3 weeks ran out. Just because Lynam kept saying "any day now" didn't mean Fry wasn't simultaneously talking to Herr/Frau/Fraulein Liebherr, or indeed to Jackson, and Uncle Tom Cobbley. Of course Lynam's constant bull may have put the other bidders off talking *to* Fry very seriously. What I'd like to know is how does one get a job as an administrator? It seems pretty well paid! I've never seen his cv, but he doesn't seem to be anything extraordinary ...doubt there's a first class hons from Oxbridge or an MBA from Harvard there, but I am judging a book by its cover. K.

So which Liebherr is it? And will we make 150 pages before this thread dies out? K.

LOL But I think you overlooked the short term, where we are certain that there are known unknowns, but suspect there are also unknown unknowns. All too close to reality to be as funny as it should be. K.

Actually they said a member of the billionaire family. Not quite the same as a billionaire member of... Could be a bit like getting Jermaine Jackson to headline your concert when you were expecting Michael. Still better than Barnet-live-with-mum-man though! K.

No. This mythical 15 points has never been an issue up to now, and shouldn't be if the swiss complete soon. K.

Who knows? But Kelvin had said he was even prepared to take a pay *cut* to stay here. Besides he could have gone long before this, so he was clearly hanging on hoping to get a contract here. I suspect he's earnt enough not to worry too much financially so quality of life and the effect on his family would be the more important issues for him. But as I say he may plan to commute to West Ham, so at least his kids can stay in the same school etc K.

I won't blame Matt in the sense that he is clearly trying to do his best for the club. However it is ironic in the bitterest sense that his association with the pinnacle bid is what has given it credibility, so if it turns out to be duff as now seems more than likely, the harm that the past 4 or 5 weeks' timewasting has caused the club will be partly down to a man that loves it. Even if it goes ahead today there has been real pain caused to some ... think of the poor unpaid staff for a starter. So, no I won't blame Matt, but I'm unlikely to ever do a business deal with him! K.

Yeah, thanks pinnnacle. Even if you complete today (as if), your totally pointless delaying for the past 2 weeks or so, *supposedly* over the -10, has lost us Davies for certain.What is more with all the money you were going to invest (!), Surman might have stayed too. Best of luck to Kelvin though. I suppose just about west ham is close enough to commute so he won't have to move his kids. Where do the hammers train? As to Drew, IMO he'll go on and prove to those on here that don't appreciate him ,that he is a genuine premiership player K.

No stamina some people. What about the late shift? Who's on wild speculation duty tonight? K.

WHAT?! Surely they passed the fit and proper person stuff weeks ago? This is very worrying ...not another new money man? K.

Since it was my speculation that appears to have started the leveraged buyout speculation, perhaps I should say that MY speculation was not that pinnacle had to borrow lots to buy us, more that maybe their business plan involved borrowing to invest *after* they'd taken over, and that the FL was restricting this so as to ensure a club that had overspent its means once didn't do so again. Think how it would look for the credibilty of the league, and of all other clubs seeking finance/credit in the future, if we went into administration again within say 2 years. K.

Perhaps they're not allowed to build up fresh debts for a couple of years? I recall that Fry implied at one stage that the pinnacle bid gave the creditors less intially than some others, but had bigger eventual payments if we were promoted, right up to additional payments if we make it back to the premiership. That implies that there isn't a huge amount of cash sloshing around up front. Maybe the business plan invovles heavy borrowing to invest after the takeover and the FL won't allow that? Comlete speculation on my part I hasten to add. Am not (and I suspect never will be) ITK. K.

Becasue Matt's statement had a weasel phrase, something along the lines of 'there are still a few ambibguities to be clarifed in the contract' Pinnacle seem to have been convinced that they could and would appeal the -10 on the technicality of the SFC/SLH split. (Even though most of us knew full well that the FL would not back down.) I'm worried that even now pinnacle are hoping for a phrasing of the contract that leaves them a legal loophole to go to court later and challenge the waiver clause. If so the FL's lawyers will be checking to make sure there isn't such a loophole and we could still end up with an impasse. K.

It is an issue when someone misleads. Mr Lynham clearly said in his one of his first posts on here that he started with a consortium but several dropped out when he made clear the level of investment needed, so that there was now only one single investor who was worth several hunded million, and that he and Matt were delighted by that because there'd be no in-fighting in future between members of a consortium. Now it's a consortium again? Hmmm. K.

There never was any danger of a greater deduction; it was always just about the -10 and waiving the right to appeal. I'll be delighted if the deal does go through monday or tuesday, but I'm past blindly believing mr lynam's promises now I'm afraid. K.

I'm sure the 'contract' being fixed doesn't mean the price is, just the conditions of the sale. He'll sell to anyone who gives more than the creditors would get from a fire sale. K.