Ken Tone

We are in administration! We can't sign anybody on a long term contract. If bloody David Beckham offered to play for us at £100 a week, we'd have to say no. Until we get a new owner we are pretty much at the mercy of any club who wants any of our players. K.

The big question is, is he playing football yet? K.

This just goes to show how desperate football fans will clutch at any rumour straw. With chester about to go down to the Blue Square, their fans will hope against hope for any way the club might avoid it. We're just the latest straw that some bright spark has thought of. Them hoping for this is a bit like us hoping that we beat burnely and forest, and don't get the 10 point deduction, really ;-) K.

Perhaps it would be better to restrain yourself until after they've attended the Burnley game? ;-) K.

Quite. What's the point of this? We are where we are. All fans want us to be somewhere better. The best way to achieve that is for us all to pull together, back the club and team as they are now and hope for the best. There is absolutely nothing to be gained from arguing over whose fault it is that we are in this position. K.

Not if we do well in L1. If we go on a long winning run next season the fair weather fans will return, even in div 3. People like to watch their side winning, almost regardless of the division. Meanwhile I'll be there for the burnley game as I have all season, because ... oh. K.

Well a) premier league and football league have different rules, and b) the big boys have to watch their own backs. Even man united's parent company is in trouble. The football club is doing well financially but the parent company (because it borrowed to buy the club) has huge debts that would cancel that out if they were a single entity. What if they went into administration? Can you see the premier league daring to dock Man U any points? The supposed difference will be how much else the holding company does, or owns, apart from the football club. The football powers-that-be will hide behind that supposed distinction somehow. They won't dare dock West Ham points in case they are next to suffer.... as long as west ham pay their football debts. K.

Must be a reserve game on? K.

I am amazed that anyone thought this would be a quick clean deal. How many times do we have to say administration is not a pleasant thing? The club has no control over its own fate. We fans have no control over the fate of 'our' club. It may be that we end up with a new owner who isn't just out to make the most money he can out of our assets before buggering off somewhere else. We will all then be able to heave a sigh of relief and congratulate ourselves on getting rid of Lowe and ending up with a united club again, even if it is in in the third division. It also may not end up that good. We may well end up with a chancer in charge. It may even be that the club ceases to exist, though personally I cannot see that happening. The fact is we fans are totally bloody helpless in the process. Actually I'm quite encouraged by the fact that the administrator hasn't started selling off assets piecemeal. That suggests he still expects (hopes?) to sell the club as a going concern to someone who can pay the creditors a fair part of the debt. If/when Fry sells Staplewood or several first team players, then we will know we are in real trouble. K.

I agree with most of that for the short term, but in the end I think the smaller 'prem league 2 teams would be naively planning for their own future trouble. Their initial financial gain would not last. How long would it be before the prem league 1 teams start pushing for a disproportionate share of the TV money etc? Then prem L2 would in effect be as poor as the current championship teams etc. The problem football has is that the top teams are so greedy that eventually they will kill off the smaller teams, which ironically will eventually kill off the top teams too. Excellence has to have mediocrity elsewhere to look good. Or to put it in a less philosophical way, even the biggest teams need some little teams to beat and to bring on future players for them to nick. K.

I posted the message below on the 'ticket office idea' thread a while back. It is illegal to trade when insolvent, and therefore also very risky when about to be insolvent in case you might be shown later to have known you were going bust, which will be why they didn't sell tickets in March and can't sell them now. But I can't see why a pledge system couldn't work and surely it would help? K. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Have just sent this to David Luker: David Sorry -- another supporter interrupting your work! This may well be better forwarded to the administrator; I'm sending it to you as I do not have his contact details, and it is related to ticket sales. Please pass on if you think it appropriate. I realise that the club could not and cannot legally sell season tickets for next season its current parlous state. However it would send a very positive signal to potential investors if they knew that thousands of fans would definitely buy a ST if they could. So might there be some facility for fans to pledge to buy season tickets for next season, as soon as the club's future is secure, regardless of which division we are in ? The club could either publicise 2 prices, one for each division, or just set a figure regardless. Fans could then 'pay' in advance with the money not actually being taken from accounts/cards until the club was formally solvent again. This would, as I say, encourage investors, but also from the administrator's point of view, show that keeping the club alive is the best way to ensure that creditors have the best chance of getting their money. K.

Maybe so but ironic given that the Northam had not been very full in recent matches before that anyway. Fans abusing other fans is never a good idea. K.

Many councils have significant reserves. Hence some got fingers burnt, putting savings in Iclandic banks. No idea about southampton. But if they do have reserves, there is a case for making a capital purchase now that would give a rental return that might compare well with the pathetic rate of interest they'd get on money in a bank. That would cost ratepayers nothing as such. The issue would be is the money as safe as it woud be in a bank? ;-) Given the effect a successful (or even a not very successful) football club can have on a local economy there is a real case to justify such a move by the council. But I'd have thought this was the sort of move they'd take to prevent us going out of business. No point or need if a 'proper' investor comes in. K.

What could there be? He's made a gesture of offering to help, but really is in no positon to be much help. No news. K.

Have just sent this to David Luker: David Sorry -- another supporter interrupting your work! This may well be better forwarded to the administrator; I'm sending it to you as I do not have his contact details, and it is related to ticket sales. Please pass on if you think it appropriate. I realise that the club could not and cannot legally sell season tickets for next season its current parlous state. However it would send a very positive signal to potential investors if they knew that thousands of fans would definitely buy a ST if they could. So might there be some facility for fans to pledge to buy season tickets for next season, as soon as the club's future is secure, regardless of which division we are in ? The club could either publicise 2 prices, one for each division, or just set a figure regardless. Fans could then 'pay' in advance with the money not actually being taken from accounts/cards until the club was formally solvent again. This would, as I say, encourage investors, but also from the administrator's point of view, show that keeping the club alive is the best way to ensure that creditors have the best chance of getting their money. K.

Thanks for the clarification. I had been under the impression that McMeney was earning £100k a year when Wilde brought him back into the club, for not doing very much at all. All this is why I hope Le Tiss never comes back to the club as anything other than a figurehead. I'd hate to see him become manager for example. Even in the unlikely event that he is successful at first, it would all go wrong in the end as it does for all managers sooner or later, and then he'd be a figure of fun, or even hate. We need some heroes to stay untarnished ! K.

I agree. Surely any money we donate now would just go to the creditors? Or even to give the shareholders such as Lowe, Wilde and indeed Crouch, some money back on their loss? I'm going to matches, thereby showing the support the club has, but before anything financial I'm waiting till I see who buys us and then will show my support by buying a season ticket etc, whatever league we're in. If however, god forbid, it gets to the stage where the *administrator* says we need £x this week or we go bust for good, then I'll donate. K.

Passion is cheap when you don't attend matches or put any money into the club. I'm not blaming Mick; he's moved on to another career - another world really. Good luck to him, and thanks for all the memories. But unless he is now prepared to put some of his money in ........... K.

Still better than losing, getting relegated, and then starting next season on -10. K.

Can't help thinking that the charlton attendance was boosted by the £15 tickets as much as by administration etc. And anyone who was an irregular attender but who came to that game is unlikely to have been inspired and excited enough to start attending all games again! These next 2 home games are a real test of how good our support is and how strong our fan base. If we get 25k+ regardless of the away results and any football league decision, that should send a good signal to a potential buyer, though 32k would have been better. 20-25k would be so-so. Anything less than 20k would be poor IMO. K.

I think you're right. Our only very faint chance is if we get a buyer quickly, meet all our football debts on time, and satisfy our other creditors somehow. In other words if the outcome is much the same as it would have been if someone had bought out the existing shareholders a few weeks ago, except for the shareholders not getting the price they wanted. The points deduction was introduced mostly to stop other clubs missing out because those going into administration were thus avoiding paying *football* debts... balances of transfers etc. We might just get away with it if we get back on a even keel within days and no other club loses out on a payment from us. However didn't Notts County (?) say we owe them money for McGoldrick. We're stuffed if that is correct IMO. In any event we now need to get as many points as possible so that the 10 points are deducted this season, not next. K.

But as administrator his job IS to do the best for the bank, not for the club or fans. His only real interest inthe long term future of the club is if that long term future is the best way to ensure the creditors get their money in a reasonable time period. He doesn't have all that much discretion. If Attila the Hun came in with a bid that included immediately paying off all the debts, but then using the pitch to practise his hordes' cavalry charges whilst the peasants watched from the stands, the administrator would take that bid unless someone else matched it financially. K.

Thought we'd done this one to death. Before cut off date, points deduction this season regardless of where you finish. After cut off date points deduction suspended till end of season. Then if the deduction makes enough difference to get us relegated when we would otherwise stay up, it is applied immediately, causing relegation. If it makes no difference because we are relegated anyway, it is applied next season in the lower division. So if you are definitely going to be relegated you want administration before cut off date so you lose points this season when it makes no difference, rather than next. By leaving it this late, if the Football League decides it applies, we lose the chance of getting away with it, and will be hurt one way or the other. K.

I intend to clap politely, but will have to remember to put down my thermos flask so I can stand up when we score. Should be too warm for the blanket. ( I sit in the kingsland, and didn't want to disappoint all you others by not fitting the stereotype. ;-) ) As for stay-away fans, welcome back from me .... as long as you'll be with us next season too, in L1 if that's where we end up. Btw is it just that the stand you're in always feels more crowded than the one opposite or has the kingsland crowd size really held up better than the numbers in the other stands this season? K.

1. No. Administrator's job is to do the best for the creditors. Often that means some of the debt is wiped off by agreement so that the credoitors get at least something, but all is up for negotiation, and creditors can get nasty and insist on getting as much money as they legally can, regardless of what that means for the business. In our case we need to keep Aviva as mortgage holders and Barclays as overdraft holders happy somehow. 2. Yes, but there's nothing to stop them buying back in if they want to and manage to convince the administrator that will give the creditors the best deal, which is why ..... 3. Bates is mentioned because that's what he did at Leeds, and someone claims to have seen him around with Lowe as if advising ... yet another ITK rumour. Clear enough? K.