Ken Tone

A larger than life character ...bit of a rocker/teddy boy if you are old enough to know what that means! Sideburns and brylcream. Saw him play for bolton when I lived up there. Really skillful, sort of a poor man's George Best. Best ever football 'player profle' response in a programme - when asked "what has been the greatest disappointment in his career", he answered "Jane Smith, form 5B". K.

Indeed. Sometimes an arrogant kid will undergo an attitude turn-around *because* their first club kicks them out. At the time we let MacDonald go, Strachan was very much in charge and I don't remember many people objecting, in spite of all the 20-20 hindsight now being shown on here. At the time the message was 'promising youngster, but with sh*t attitude, bad influence on others'. cf Dyer? Will we have the same hindsight shown if Dyer eventually makes it in the SPL or some other mickey mouse league? K.

As in several previous games we played some very pretty football at times. Too much so in fact. Had Davis been instructed to play it out short that often? Rather like the Watford game, we looked the better side in open play, but failed to convert that into goals. Am heartily sick of getting back to my car to hear bloody Merrington going on about 4-5-1. I've always liked the bloke and yes he's a true saint, but for god's sake play a diferent tune Dave. For a start we do not play 4-5-1, we play 4-2-3-1, switching to 4-2-1-3 as we attack. We do NOt always have only 1 player up front, we often have 3. Then as we drive home we had to listen to prats texting in who have clearly only been listening to radio, saying back to Merrington what he'd said in the commentary! Thought McGoldrick had a better game last night, with one other cracking shot in the first half as well as his well-taken goal, but seeing Morrison for them showed what we are missing. He was all over us at times - a proper centre forward, with a much greater physical presence Euell was outstanding, 'in the hole', but unfortunately that meant playing Llallana out wide where he didn't shine. Wootton may not be a footballing genuius, but by 'eck can he shout. He and Euell really worked at driving the youingsters into position. Skacel was quieter but nonetheless looked worth his place, even if not his salary. K.

I know there is all the stuff about Lowe that many of those who stay away use to rationalise their lack of attendance, but I am nonetheless shocked by how small our real core support has turned out to be. We kept saying we were a big club when we were in the premiership. Well big clubs have more loyal fans than we do, that support their team even when they are crap. Forest and Wednesday in the old 3rd division getting the crowds they did, Villa donkeys' years ago ditto -- that's the sort of support I thought we expected to see here in these tough times. But it turns out many of those fans were just as plastic as they claimed others were. This is not intended to knock those in financial difficulty who can't afford to come any more, but as to those that can afford it and just can't be bothered to come in case they might actually have to watch their side lose --shame on them. It's that sort of attitude that encourages non-football people like Lowe to think of us as customers, not as fans. Fair enough, obviously it's up to every individual how he or she spends their money. If you're not coming because you don't rate the standard of football, or are fed up with watching the side struggle, that's up to you, but then don't claim to be a fan; you are indeed a customer. K.

Well shocking it may be, but at least this thread is current. I remember many years ago being at a lower division winter afternoon game somewhere (not saints) where the ref insisted the lights were turned on just before half time, and the club were furious, saying that the extra power usage, with them therefore being on during the half time break too, cost them hundreds of pounds more than turning them on for just the second half as they usually did-- money they couldn't afford. K.

To be fair Dowie is sh:tfaced when he is sober. ;-) Has to be the ugliest man in football! But he's a good manager, and for all the talk of big money at QPR, they havent spent much of it. K.

I'd go along with most of those. In fact put 2 strikers in front of that as a 4-3-1-2 formation and you'd have fair team, but for some imbalance left/right K.

This story that Lowe won't permit us to play Skacel because of appearane money keeps re-surfacing. The club have specifically denied that there is any issue over appearance money with Rudi. Now I'm not naive enough to believe every detail of what the club says publicly, but this is such a black and white factual matter that I can't see what they'd gain from telling a lie that could easily be proved to be a lie. So those that believe this, please what is the figure and what is your source? Or else, can we stop saying it? K.

Takeover tomorrow?! Obviously nonsense. It's not even a Friday tomorrow. Do these people know nothing about a decent takeover thread? K.

I dont know if Roeder is complaining about the penalty or the red card. If it is the penalty he is simply wrong. I also sit in the kingsland and it was indeed a foul and indeed clearly inside the area. As to the sending off I thought it wasn't a straight red though, and I wouldn't even have booked for the foul as such. Hadn't he already been booked? I presumed it was a second booking for dissent. But I didn't see what caused it -- I too was looking to see who would take it. Mind you it might have been wishful thinking on my part to say Stefanovitch (sp?) had been booked before. The ref did ok overall, but as some others have said he ought to have booked a few a bit earlier. I'd mentally booked quite a few! K.

Born there yes but lived here for many years and qualified to play for England. More English than Zola Budd, Tony Greig or Basil Dolivera ! What is more he lives locally, so not just English but Southampton. The lack of foreign mercenaries is real plus this season. K.

For christ's sake, we had at least 8 first team players out injured last night and still played well. How many more injuries do you anticipate us getting? Really enjoyed last night. Yes, KD made some brilliant saves and if he hadn't maybe things would have been different, but then he is part of team after all - having a good goalkeeper isn't luck. What is more their keeper too made some good saves, and BWP hit the bar with a fantastic shot . Such a pity that didn't go in, because it would have killed the game earlier and he might have gained the confidence to play better. He didn't .. in fact in the second half I'd have taken him off but for the humiliation of subbing off a sub, which would have destroyed what little confidence he has left. It was noticeable how much better McGoldrick played after scoring that penalty. Young players 'feed' off confidence even more than more mature footballers, which is why wins like this are so important. Poortvliet made it clear btw that Pekhart was NOT injured. It was a tactical switch. A very brave and unusual decison to sub someone after only 30 mins. In short all you stay-aways. Get yourselves back down to St Mary's. You missed a cracker. K.

He runs a property development company. How could he not have at least a cash flow problem in the current climate? Can't see how he could have money to buy out Lowe now if he didn't have it before. K.

But if you look at the history, clubs that do go into administration quite often end up with the same peope in charge afterwards....cf Bournemouth , Leeds. If the club is not an attractive purchase before administration it will be less attractive afterwards and if Lowe and his mates want to carry on afterwards they mght well be the only ones interested. K.

I'm sorry to sound patronising but it's obvious so many posting on here have absolutely no idea what administration means or is like. Let's be clear, administration is bad, bad, bad. We'd not only lose points this year and probably next year but even more importantly anything and everything of any value would be sold off, and cheap: training ground almost certainly sold, stadium maybe sold, young players of any promise certainly sold, or released for free to remove from wages bill. Goodbye to any of the current crop of players that you might want to keep... and peanuts for them in return. We'd probaby be left with no decent training facilities, a stadium owned by someone else, (so rent instead of loan payments and no club control of stadium use or income from concerts etc), minus 17 points starting in league 1, and no decent players because we've effectively 'advertised' the young ones this year so they'd find other clubs. Relegation to league 2 would be a very likely consequence therefore, with a long hard road to climb to get back to even where we are now. Long term posters will know me as an occasional poster right back to the days of the original forum, who warned against Wilde when he first rode in on his white horse, and I've no axe to grind for Lowe, or any one else for that matter. I'm just a fan who wants to se his club doing well, but above all surviving. So if you care about the Saints, stop wishing for disaster and get yourself to the next home game and support the lads. Never mind if they deserve it. Never mind of Lowe is a git. This is Saints in trouble. If you're a fan, damn well show it! K.

From the Barnsley report "As for our attacking play, it was again limited. As we said earlier, we didn't record one shot on target and looked extremely poor going forward. However, one chance in particular we should have converted, and how Iain Hume didn't is a mystery to all. Martin Devaney sent the former Leicester man through and after he'd done all the hard work to round the keeper, he was charged with the task of slotting the ball into the empty net. Somehow though he failed to do this, skewing his effort into the side netting as it became clear that it would be our third game in succession without scoring a goal." Surpisingly few people seemed to notice that actually the linesman had his flag up, and this 'goal' would have been offisde anyway. K.

This was the main problem for me in much of the game. without Holmes and until Drew ws finally pushed out there inthe last 10 minutes we effectively had no one in front of Mills. Whichever of BWP or McGoldrck was supposed to be playing on the left ( and it varied during the game --they swapped ) kept drifting into the middle. At one point both players were wide on the right wing and W-P then crossed to the left where he was supposed to be. With so little support I thought Mills did amazingly well. He didn't get forward like Drew does, but if he had, we'd have had no defence because there was no one to cover. It HAS to be worth trying Mills at LB with Drew in front of him in a 4-4-2 until Holmes is back -- in fact the formation we finished with. But will Jan be flexible enough to do that or will he stick rigidly to the system he prefers, even though we don't currently have the players to play it? K.

Ah but the crucial difference is that one was a spelling error, whereas mine was merely a typographical error. ;-) K.

But how can anyone take this thread seriously when the correct phonetic speling of Norwich is not Naaarwich but 'Norrch?'. Note the upward inflection at end which existed in Norfolk even before Neighbours corrupted the way young people speak in the rest of the UK. Went to uni in Norwich ...a fine city. Norwich City is a very different club to Saints in that a) it has generally had lower aspirations and knows what is can realistically achieve, so suffers less disappointment and b) the locals support them through thick and thin, and in the bad times don't bugger off to the likes of chelsea, let alone Ipswich - their equivalent to our Portsmouth. K.

:-) Far too esoteric a joke for a football forum! Presumably he was 'A Bad Footballer' then ? K.

Yes there has to be hope. So whilst there is prmotion to a premiership-like league available ,we have to be able to hope to do it. If however the league was carved up again with say the top half or third of the premiership playing in a european league instead, and the bottom half or 2 thirds re-joining the football league ,with no automatic promotion to Europe, I'm not sure I'd be too bothered. If we were winning the football league championship as a competition in its own right, against the likes of pompey, Birmingham, Blackburn , Bolton, maybe even Spurs or Villa, etc whilst the armchair fans watch Man U play AC Milan in Thailand on the telly, for the fourth time that season, I'd be fairly happy. K.

It's worse than that really. The position we had when we were at the Dell was not sustainable. We could not have survived in the premiership with the sort of div 3 image that gave us. Try attracting Robinho to the Dell! Try attracting investment at the Dell! So it was damned if we did and damned if we didn't. I'm not great fan of Lowe's but the stadium move I feel was essential. The few good thngs that have happened to us recently have been helped by the impression our facilites give to possible managers ,players and sponsors. As I recall, the original plans were that they financed the stadium on an assumption of crowds of between 20-25,000 depending on the opposition, and everyone was delighted when we got 30,000+. Lots of people were even calling for a ground extension only afew years ago. The problems we have are not unique to Saints and IMO are not related to the stadium build; they apply to every club that hasn't got a sugar daddy, or isn't lucky enough to be winning without one. And there can only be one or two at any time in that 'winning without silly money' group, if any, AND most importantly they will only be there for a while before they come crashing down again. Sustained success is not possible in the current premiership/league structure without someone pumping huge sums in-- mostly pumping money they will never recoup; it's not "investment" in any sense normal business would use the term. It's more high stakes roulette, driven by ego. K.

An excellent summary Chapel End Charlie. Thanks for the work you must have put into it. As to polegategavin's questions about how we managed financially at the Dell in the premiership:- a) Did we ? Transfer profits were necessary even then. b) Vast sums from TV subsidise all premiership teams. Gates receipts are a minor part of the income of many. c) The rate of player wage inflation is hugely above inflation for us poor mortals. Even inthe short time we've been out of the premiership, never mind since the days of the Dell, what was a premiership wage in our day is now 'peanuts'. Look at the top 4 and now Man city. It is a different world there now, not just a different league. £30+million for players who in a few years could leave for nothing on a Bosman. The sooner the big , internationally owned teams, bugger off to form a european, or even world, super league the better. That might give normal league clubs like the bulk of the premiership and those in the CCC a chance to win our domestic league without them skewing it. Abramovitch was the worse thing to happen to modern football in england IMO... and now we have QPR, City etc, as well as the Arsenals and Liverpools etc. K.

Of course it's close. It's Friday tomorrow. K.