dubai_phil

Good stat but remember the final game WAS a full house due to the circumstances, as you have it to hand what was the figure excluding the last game. (Avoids an excel war which I hate) :smt048:cool:

Not unfair overall but you have shot yourself in the foot badly by forgetting to add one other name in the middle. That is your downfall in the debate as you will get pinged by all and sundry on it. The world is now very different from the start of the season, that's obvious to all but my soon to be ex wife. The PROBLEM is that the idiocacy of the total football "experiment" undermines ANY argument that re-building the club to be able to survive financially was possibly a success for Lowe. IF we survive financially (or even IF Lowe keeps us going long enough for somebody to take a punt and buy us) then I understand (but don't agree) that you can argue that it COULD have been regarded as a success. But then that would be the work you'd expect from a financial person or an accountant. It was his role as Chairman and the "EXPERIMENT" which was too big a gamble to take in an uncertain world. And it is on that point that he will be forever damned. At the end of the day, let's face it Lowe came in and shut up (thank heavens). Perhaps in hindsight he probably wishes he'd kept his mouth (and Wilde's) shut when he tried to sell the JP & kids idea. He didn't, he oversold it and woosh we are where we are today, so even though you put a good case, Lowe made his own noose on this one

It's amazing isn't it. All over the UK there are hundreds of consultants and companies who specialise in running "Team Building Events" for businesses. It is a very clear concept in business that TEAM's are IMPORTANT, and that teams have dynamics and roles and positions. And yet here we are, a Football Club operating in a TEAM game, where after 2/3rds of the season, the so called businessmen in charge recognise that maybe we need to build a team spirit..... As others say on here from time to time - you couldn't make it up

That is specifically NOT what I wrote my friend. Out of Crouch, Wilde & Lowe - who WERE the only choice we had, I said that I think that Lowe was the only one who could keep the BUSINESS going. You must be a journalist to so twist THAT DIG at Lowe to believe I was even SUGGESTING that Lowe was a good businessman. HOWEVER, I also clearly stated that we are a FOOTBALL CLUB and IMHO Lowe is NOT up to the running of that. I thought THAT was pretty clear by my saying at BEST he could be our accountant...... You should at least be aware that I have repeately preached that I hope he and the other two all go BACK to those business careers VERY damned soon as not ONE of them is free of blame for this godawful mess we are in Accusing me of saying Lowe is a good businessman is like me accusing you of being a good reader. Strewth take a chill pill, I was giving Lowe STICK ffs

OK here is the key issue. I agree in that of all the options available with the mess we were in, Lowe was the best one to keep the BUSINESS running. Shame we are a Football Club. Like you I actually am inclined to believe that he IS working very hard behind the scenes to find ways to secure investment or simply to keep the bank from killing us, the idea of blackmailing the bank by refusing to offer early ST renewal options sounds like a good tactic. There is as many have stated no denying that major cost cutting surgery HAD to be implemented in the summer.... However, the PROBLEM still exists that on top of all of that Lowe made a rod for his OWN back, a major gamble which he tried to label as a revolution, a "new way". There was at least ONE risk too many in that concept. It did not work, it was becoming clear it wasn't working in the run up to Christmas, Lowe delayed the "performance review" with JP for too long, allowing the club to enter the relegation zone, as well as alienating even more supporters who, at the end of the day we needed at the ground to "keep the business running" So yes fair play to Lowe for keeping the "business" running on empty for so long. But we are not in a simple business we are in Football, which is by and large an Entertainment business, ANY fool could run a Football Club IF they had the right experts around to give advice. But if you don't listen to advice or don't allow experts around, or even have the wrong experts.... you get where we are today. Financial Director maybe, Chairman or even Leader - no way

Interesting will be a hell of an improvement on depressing as Jan & early Feb had been!

Ah ha so I did catch you Trousers. Good thread though for a change as it has got people discussing things with some sense for a change. IMHO a wise person is one who watches and learns, either from the experience or the mistakes of others. An old boss once said he'd fire people if they never made a mistake as quickly as he'd fire people who always made mistakes. On this issue there is no doubt it was one mistake in a whole long line of them.... by someone who NEVER seems to learn or seek to learn... But although I posted before the season began that it was a concept with too many risks. I still think as others have said that it COULD have worked. (Which is NOT to say I thought it WOULD work). Taking the LESSON from this, IF we survive to next season we now have a clear way to move forwards. Keep a spine of experience and bring the youngsters in gradually, as they learn and develop they will become good players, can ANYONE see how (for example) Lancashire could have been expected to play 40+ games a season against experienced old pros. Last season we had 11 "experienced pros" and to be honest that strategy was as WRONG as this seasons has been. We lacked the balance last year - the youthful enthusiasm and fresh legs vs the bored old pros. All we have ever wanted is a balance between the two. By default we may have got it. BUT for Lowe, sorry you may keep us running with the bank a bit longer than anyone else could have but that would make you fit AT THE MOST to be finance director NOT chairman.

OK Trousers, I'll bite... You went to the game yesterday but didn't know where to park at SMS You then pop up on here asking whether Lowe may have been right all along. As you are the King of our conspiracy analysts I must ask 1) Who has hacked into Trousers account? 2) If it's you did you get a freebie from Rupe's? Or more likely you had a DIFFERENT reason for starting this post..... Awaiting with interest the new conspiracy theory you probably have up your sleeve with this, as I don't believe for one minute you have lost your marbles/Guillemots OK so what's up?

IMHO it had a fatal flaw from the start. Experience You can argue that the kids COULD have done it You can argue that the concept of integrated coaching and playing styles COULD have done it BUT I do not believe that the kids could EVER have done it without a proper EXERIENCED coach. I also think it COULD have been possible for JP to succeed with the integrated approach IF he had kept a balanced side and had an older experienced head working alongside him So today we have an experienced manager and a balanced team playing a formation for the League we are in rather than becuase the kids play that way. That is not related to the experiement in ANY way that I can see

Think you're a little premature, not on the footballing side but just the overall can it still get worse side. There seems to have been an outbreak of common sense on the footballing side, that seems to be bringing back a few extra fans each week. So the green shoots of recovery ARE there. But I still remain convinced that we are only hanging on financially by our finger nails. Will the two away games (and reduced income in that time) impact on our cash flow and cause the bank to pull the plug? Will the attendance increases be fast enough to improve our revenue and cash at the bank? I really think that IF we can get to the end of the season and clear some of the O/D but keep the core of the team we WILL come out of the mess now. But I worry whether we will get through the next month off the pitch. Perhaps our only saving grace is that Lowe is such a "nasty piece of work" in his negotiations that he can keep the bank on a string long enough. So not yet, but nearly

yikes - I wondered that as well..... Wotte was too good a coach/catch to risk with an experiment but would come in if it all worked well... hmm

Again had been thinking along similar lines... From this distant viewpoint it seemed even in close season that the training was wrong, tales of lack of fitness, nobody given the chance to get match fit were simple indicators that I could read about here. In SOME ways, I wonder whether (for all his alleged involvement in picking the team) Lowe actually didn't spend much time AT Staplewood. IF the stories are to be believed then anyone with 10 years involvement at a football club could have seen that poor results and a lax training or fitness regime would have a link. Did he actually stay TOO far away so as not to see the blindingly obvious? To me the key "rumour" was of Adam Lallana on a night out in Bournemouth chatting with fans and saying he'd had to pay to sign up to Fitness First as he wasn't fit enough for his body to overcome all the little niggling injuries that are part and parcel of life as a pro. Now on it's own it is a man in the pub story, but all together I just wonder WTF was really going on.... Doctrine vs Intelligence always one outcome

Ignoring the name calling, going back to Professors post, I have some thoughts Lowe is right to take credit for appointing Wotte - IF it works - he could have appointed any number of other options. BUT - if he takes credit for the appointment he MUST also take the blame for the fact that by his POOR appointment of JP he was forced into the position where he HAD to make the change. By THAT token the mistake is doubly compounded - he backed JP's approach to signing and dumping players (or it was his idea anyway) and so when Wotte comes along he has no choice but to again back his way of doing things. So well he may take credit, but I do not believe any fan will grant him any because it was a decision that he had to make becuase of the failing of a critical business decision HE made.

Besides being a "commanding" player, Svennson was also an "intelligent" player with a great ability to read the game. Right now it seems as if we are using brains to coach, train and select our team rather than a doctrine As others have said elsewhere, football is an easy game -kick a round object into a net, but it requires intelligence to see how easy it can be and adjust to be successful

The old Arabic Bedouin method in the desert when water is scarce is to use one small napkin or tissue folded into a traingle shape, tear the top corner off (a small hole) and place your left index finger up through the triangle and out through the hole. The finger is then used to wipe out the klingons. When finished, the tissue is carefully folded around the finger and carefully used to wipe it clean. This incredibly useful fact is explained to newbies here as the reason why, when in the company of locals at a meal, one NEVER EVER uses one's left hand to put food up to one's mouth..... HTH

One question Did Connor's flower thing happen?

Was a good game to listen to on the internet, although the finger nails weren't helped. Still believe we are in a whole heap of trouble, but slowly see signs that we have somebody on the playing management side who actually knows what he is doing, whether it is the comments from players about training being more focused and harder through to the team selections. Maybe we can pull off another great escape on and off the field this season, at least NOW with some experience of managing a football team at the helm we could do it. We'll get some more setbacks but while we were in the PL it was the spirit of the players that kept us up along with sensible team selection and a little luck, just starts to sound like we may have found it again. A lot less down than have been for a couple of weeks

Phew that was easy then

aaaaaarrrggghhhhh Size nearly OG corner keeper up arggh last second

Argh thanks Will the Saints Bench erupts with frustration

saga off Liptak on

arrghh what a bad day to give up smoking/drinking/glue sniffing etc etc

bwp on

think you're right, but the yardarm is well in the dark here so more Guinness time

getting tired and nervous according to Dennis