buctootim

It's funny to watch the outies confusion. normally the CBI, FTSE100 CEOS, IOD, SMMT are touchstones on the economy - Gods whose opinion can't be challenged. now suddenly it's all just irrelevant.

actually Carlos Ghosn was pretty damn clear.

Its simplistic to say that because total imports and total exports are roughly similar the threat of tit for tat tariffs would even things out. For example for most EU car producers the UK is an important but minority market - Peugeot (4.5%) or VW (5%) aren't going to relocate production to the UK if British tariffs are introduced on a small part their sales. By contrast 80% of the cars built in the UK go for export including 49% to the EU - if that proportion are subject to tariffs there will be a queue out of the door to relocate elsewhere. http://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-KPMG-EU-Report.pdf

Then we can vote out in 10 years time, if it comes to that. Its a totally different scenario to abandoning a free trade zone with robust access agreements with other major economies and going it alone.

Exactly. The three replies to my post were all moaning that the 'in' campaign was negative - if they mean it highlights the almost total absence of an 'Outs' plan, or examples of precedents, or something more than hoping - then they're right. Currently all the 'ins' need to do is to point out the alternative isnt credible, there is no plan - its very very easy. The outs need to sell a vision, a viable alternative - moaning at the electorate that they aren't being brave isnt going to cut it.

The out campaign has been overwhelmingly negative so far. What they need to do is set out a vision of how a Britain outside the EU will be. There should be heavyweight reports from KPMG / Deloitte / McKinseys showing realistic options for Britain. They need some economic analysis showing how similar 'independent' countries operate. Instead we've got the Outies telling anybody who isnt convinced by the case so far they're stupid, or scared. If they keep that up they are going to lose and lose very badly.

The Times is the best of the bunch imo - right of centre but fairly straight with the news and usually quotes sources so you can check /read more if you want to.

Finally!! Are you switching papers for good?

Hi Bletch!! No need for that. We do have window locks and deadbolts in Sussex you know. Im only football gay. Fit is a relative term dontchathink? The fact I dont keep my pancreas in a jar and can wipe my own butt is close enough for me.

I agree with both of those. Expressing an opinion on a landline Monday to Friday is not the same as turning up to vote. Similarly generating fear to get people to vote the 'right' way is wrong. Of those 36 FTSE 100 bosses who signed the 'stay' letter very few were manufacturers who genuinely could be affected by leaving the EU. The large majority were consumer businesses who will operate wherever they can sell. Vodafone and ASDA wont be leaving the UK because we aren't in the EU. Similarly Britain's security wont be affected. Its pity much our media is so superficial and juvenile that much of the public arent so much informed but moulded.

There hasn't been a referendum prior to this one because there has never been a need for one. For the vast majority of the time people were happy to stay in. For the two periods when leave seemed popular it was agreed to hold a referendum. The Outies problem isnt that you are being stitched up or that you will never get another referendum - its that the majority of the British people dont agree with you.

The EU have no say on whether a UK referendum is called or not.

Another logic gap. Has the Scottish referendum put to bed the question of independence, or were the SNP elected with an increased majority? The eurosceptics wont go away, especially if the result is close, just like the nationalists.

I love logic gaps. Go on then, explain. Is Dave an EU extremist? after all he's leading the In campaign but inconveniently also called the referendum.

too

Dave wont be PM in four years time let alone a lifetime. In any event if it suited him electorally he'd change his mind about another referendum tomorrow. Like Scottish independence its settled for 10 years maybe.

Exactly

Lots to back up what Whitey says, very little to back up your position. Turkey applied to join the EU in 1987 and they're still waiting. Their chances of joining are close to zero.

A friend of mine who works for Toyota was talking about the irony of brand snobs going on about the superior build quality of their 'German' VWs, BMWs etc without realising most of them are made abroad whilst looking down on 'naff' cars like the Vauxhall Adam and Zafira which are actually German designed and built.

Saints do well in maximising the potential of pretty much every player we have. Most signings improve with us and those that leave often stagnate, go backwards or not really fulfil the potential they had. Asttute scouting and signing helps of course, seeing potential or ability others dont see, its not just good coaching.

Also that the death rate for those admitted at weekends is higher, but the death for those already in hospital at the weekend is not. That suggests it may be the nature of the admissions at weekends rather than the quality of care the care received. That is no great surprise as weekend admissions are usually emergency cases as opposed to the mix of elective and emergency during the week. Those admitted as emergencies are on average sicker and more likely to die than planned electives.

Aside from all the EU wrangles, Im amazed some of them havent bought a used rib and outboard and simply sailed across the channel. We have almost zero patrol ships to stop them.

Isnt that the stand which faces where the 'Presidents' sit. Looks like they left a Y off the start

I would Bletch but I dont like playing football, and Im no good at it and I live a long way away. If you decide on inter forum cross country in Sussex count me in! Or failing that cross posting on whether median or mean is the right way to assess a teams age and whether vintage or veteran is kinder.

Blimey. Im not surprised she's hacked off with Pompey crowd. She wont fit in down there at all.