The Kraken

No they aren't, and its utterly ridiculous to suggest they are.

Do that and the cup is dead. And, just speaking personally, I think winning a major cup should be rewarded more than finishing 6th or 7th in the league.

:lol::lol: "But look at where we were 4 years ago!!"

We certainly seem to have moved on from the days when we so easily lost players to clubs of the like of Everton and Villa. Its still a challenge to keep the really big boys at bay, January and next summer will show the true resolve of the club in hanging on to our players, but no doubt that we're better prepared than ever before to keep them. Whether that's enough or not, time will tell. Certainly hope so.

How do you lose a debate? Surely its just an exchange of different viewpoints? Sometimes you might change your opinion if the other side puts up some good reasoning, but otherwise is it not just two different sides of an opinion coming together? I'm not even sure you can have a right answer to the question "should we have played more first teamers against Sunderland?", just some people who'll believe yes and some who'll believe no.

Jeff, I think pretty much everyone knew before the game that we wouldn't play a full strength team. That said, did anyone predict we'd play such a changed side? I don't know, I didn't really pay much attention. But I know that I was hoping we'd play more first team players. When I found out the team I was disappointed and expected defeat; so much so that I bet on Sunderland to win (shame on me etc.). So I don't think you're right in suggesting that a below strength side was a surprise. More that it was disappointing (to some) that we made so many changes, and notion that an opportunity might have been missed had we gone for a stronger line up.

We've also got rather a lot who place more stock in finishing in 6th place in the league rather than winning a major trophy (and while the League Cup has been devalued over the years it is still a major trophy).

Come on Diggers, you're better than that, you can see through the black and white of it. What about the reaction had we played a few more first framers, won the game and come through entirely unscathed by injury. Then it would have been a risk worth taking. ultimately it comes down to opinion so there's little point saying one way or the other is wrong. Some think the League Cup is just an irritation to league progress; fair enough, but others see a little different, and while league form is of course the main priority there might just be room for other priorities too. I remember similar debates in JPT year when people said cut progress would hinder promotion chasing, yet there was little evidence to suggest it was the case either way (in fact our league form got better and better the further we got in the cup).

You're not the only one Benny, but it's a shame you have such a simplistic take on things that anyone who doesn't share your POV is a "troll"(ironically that's rather troll-like behaviour in itself, but that's by the by. I maintain that progress in the league and trying to win a cup are not mutually exclusive efforts. So, for me, it was a shame we didn't make more of this opportunity.

I was just responding to your plate of nonsense, I have no time at this late hour for anyone else's.

I just wondered where the option was to finish 6th and try to win a cup. It seemed you put only 2 options forward; I'm sure there's many more. God forbid it becomes such a black and white decision where trying for a cup = doomed to a lower league finish.

Is that truly the only choice then?

How much money? I couldn't care less. You can measure success all you like with a bank account, and play all sorts of meaningless sums in your head, that means little to me. Good on you if that's your benchmark,. As you said, each to your own. I'd rather see us shoot high for the league and go for the cups at the same time. Sneaking 4th place would be a terribly impressive achievement. Winning something at Wembley; well, IMO, THAT would be absolutely incredible.

Don't look now, but there's a competition we're no longer in that could have fulfilled that objective.

As ever, that sums it up very well. The desire for a 4th placed finish over some actual silverware; where football deviates from common sense IMO. The relentless ambition of a 4th place finish which might, just might, gain us entry into another competition that we have little to no hope of actually winning.

Yep; as CB F says, good luck with that. I don't know how many there are like me (frankly I don't really care) but for this season and probably the next few I'd rather see us try to win a cup. Plus I don't subscribe to the view that cup success and league progress are mutually exclusive.

All very well if you think sacrificing this cup means we'll have a much better chance of finishing 4th. Sacrificing it to finish 7th or 8th? Yeah, not for me, you're welcome to that sort of sacrifice thanks. Each to their own indeed...

I dunno. Sunderland seemed to give it a good go.

Is there an applause button? I'd press it after that. Entirely correct. Our disdain for this competition is really disappointing.

What the f*ck are you on about now Baz? I think its really disappointing we treat this competition with such disdain. I'd much rather we actually try and win something as opposed to aim for 7th or 8th.

It's ALMOST like that. Really, only almost? To me it pretty obvious we couldn't care less about this cup. I'm only surprised we played some actual first team players.

Saints kicked off.

There's typically a bit of break in the table from around 7th or 8th place. Last year Liverpool finished 7th, 15 points above WBA in 8th. Breaking that sort of structure would be an utterly phenomenal achievement. Too early to say either way right now IMO but nonetheless a thoroughly impressive start to the season.

This is probably the most sensible thing I've read on here for ages.

White on white racism; it's definitely a massive problem. Especially amongst these South Americans. Yep.