Sheaf Saint

Yes, I agree, in that context it does seem like a classic case of whataboutery. But I wasn't responding directly to your post when I made mine. In fairness though, this thread has long since moved on from being solely about JC, and has quite distinctly morphed into a general debate (if you can call it that) about British politics in general. Maybe it's time to re-name the thread appropriately, because the initial suggestion that the election of JC as leader would lead to the 'death' of the Labour party has proven to be completely false.

Should we start a separate thread for each party then?

I wasn't suggesting at all that it makes Corbyn any better. I was pointing out that they are equally as crap as each other and that we need an alternative. I was actually agreeing with one of your previous posts.

Meanwhile, over at Tory HQ... Ben Bradley's grovelling apology for his libelous tweet about Corbyn becomes the most re-tweeted item on Twitter so far this year Boris Johnson, in his capacity as Foreign Secretary, claims the post-Brexit border between NI and Eire will be no different than driving between two London boroughs. Jeremy Hunt is caught out as being jointly responsible for setting up the bogus awards ceremony where he received a humanitarian award. And it is revealed that they are being forced to pay people to pretend to support them on social media because their online popularity is so poor. It's all such a sorry state of affairs. Like Hypo said recently, the country desperately needs a credible alternative to the current options.

They did show it, but for some reason they only showed it from one angle that didn't really prove anything. Looked a close call but AM clearly released the ball when he realised he was going to carry it over the line, and the ref was perfectly in line to see f he did or not.

Bertrand can play CB if necessary.

Would still be getting on the same trains for most of the way though. I'm not 100% certain, but I expect for both journeys you would need to change at Manchester? If so then I seriously doubt the plod would be happy about that.

I'm glad you brought up the abortion opinions, because he is openly against all abortion laws (including in cases of rape) but then makes a tidy sum from sitting on the board of a company that makes contraceptives. He's happy to vote in favour of things like the bedroom tax, but then happily accepts £7m of public money to refurbish his wife's ancestral home. He believes the existence of food banks in the 6th richest country in the world is a wonderful thing. He strikes me as somebody who would happily take us back to Victorian times if he could, throwing the poor into workhouses. To me, he personifies the very worst kind of corrupt, self-serving, entitled, out-of-touch elitist in our society. A relic of a bygone age that refuse to die out.

But they are not "miles off" are they. Depending on which polls you put your faith in, there is only a couple of percentage in it right now. It would only take a massive disaster from the Tory government (like, let's say, making a massive f*ck up with Brexit) to put Labour ahead. Yes, they should be doing better given how utterly incompetent May's government is proving itself to be, but to suggest they are "miles off ever winning power", is miles off the mark

If you bother to read my earlier post from yesterday, you will find that I am not a Corbyn 'supporter'. But then you always have been fond of using strawman arguments. I actually agree with you in a way. With the Tories being in such disarray and reliant on a massive bribe to an extremist NI party to maintain their majority, a better opposition would have them on the ropes. It is to the detriment of all of us that we don't have that better opposition. But I have to take issue with your assertion that Labour are miles ahead in the muppet/unsavoury type top trumps stakes. May, Gove, Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Hammond, Fox, Grayling, Patel... I could go on, but you get the picture.

But how exactly can you say that about the current incarnation of Labour/Momentum, when they are not, and never have been, in a position of power to do so? Or are you just lazily comparing them to other, historical far-left regimes like the Soviet Union?

Can you give me some examples of this? I'm not a devout follower of Labour/Momentum looking to defend them at all costs by the way - far from it. I'm just genuinely interested to find out why you think this way and why you presume that the problem is worse than it is in other parties.

Christ alive, you've posted some utter drivel in your time LD, but this just takes the biscuit.

All of this applies just as much, if not more so, to the Tories as it does to Labour. In fact, it probably applies to every political party that has ever existed or ever will do. The plans to re-draw the constituency boundaries to favour them is a prime example of your first point. As for not tolerating debate and looking to shut down opponents, remember "People have had quite enough of experts" anyone?

For once Hypo, we are in complete agreement. The entire political system in this country is completely outdated and no longer fit for purpose. We need sweeping changes to bring us out of the dark ages, like rules which prevent a party who only manage 24% of the available vote from gaining an overall majority, or which prevent elected representatives from standing up in Parliament and telling blatant, outright lies to the house and the public with complete impunity.

It's interesting that when you do a google search for 'Momentum bullying', pretty much the only results that get returned are some dubious, unfounded accusations of bullying, usually from people with an axe to grind (mostly Blairites who can't accept that their time in the party is over), and only reported in the usual suspect pro-Tory newspapers.

Can you expand on what you mean by that exactly?

In what way? Genuinely interested to know your reasoning behind this statement.

Yes, the Czech "spy" is a truly reliable source of information... https://evolvepolitics.com/the-czech-spy-linked-to-corbyn-has-just-claimed-personal-credit-for-launching-live-aid/ I wouldn't class myself as a "fan-boy" (as you put it LD) - I like him enough and I think he has a genuine empathy for people in a way that no Tory is capable of - but this "revelation" is a total non-story. It was 30 years ago and it's such an obvious smear attempt. At least he has admitted to meeting the guy. Compare that to Boris Johnson, the serving Foreign Secretary, meeting a top level Russian intelligence officer then denying he had ever met him, despite photographs emerging of them having dinner together. I notice that this wasn't splashed all over the front pages of several tabloids and discussed at length on news programmes. Which of the two events do you think were more likely to compromise British security?

I'm not writing him off. I remember how Yoshida always had a howler in him, which he eventually managed to eliminate from his game. Hoedt may well turn into a top player if he can do the same. But what we needed in the summer when we signed him was a proven quality CB to replace Fonte/VVD, not somebody who might come good but will cost us a fair few points before he does. That's why I don't believe he was a great investment.

In his last two games he has made two horrendous mistakes which have led directly to goalscoring opportunities for the opposition. He got away with it on Saturday because it was J-Rod, and not Salah this time. He can look like the most composed and confident player ever seen, but that all goes out the window if he is going to continue to gift goals to the opposition because of schoolboy errors.

On point 2 - Hoedt looks like a disaster waiting to happen, every game. Not a wise investment IMO. On point 3 - plenty to choose from but I'll nominate Tadic. Scored a beauty on Saturday, but give him a free shot in the area from a cut-back and he'll miss every time.

I feel a lot happier about one now that we have an apparently competent keeper.

More details about the 'incident' in Barcelona... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43089347

Is that likely to tip them into yet another administration?