Sheaf Saint

On this we are in complete agreement. Now apply the same logic to feeling pride in the actions of other people that you had nothing to do with. Doesn't make any rational sense does it.

By 'we' you mean England? Technically 'we' didn't.

You misunderstand the point I am making Turks. I do not hate this country at all. Indeed, I consider myself lucky to have been born in a country where I would get a half-decent state education and never know true poverty, unlike many billions of other people on this planet. But pride? No. Pride is something I reserve for myself only. If I achieve something that I have had to work hard for then that is something to be proud of. Likewise if I actively take part in a team effort to achieve something positive. But feeling pride in the dubious achievements of some people who, quite by chance, happened to be born to parents of the same nationality as I did... there is simply no rationality in that. To many people, like yourself, national pride is held up as some kind of positive influence, but in my opinion it is anything but. By declaring pride in your own nationality (as if you somehow had something to do with it - which you didn't) you are instantly excluding everybody outside of your group, as if your being British in some way makes you special. All you are actually doing is creating (or perpetuating) division, and this can be demonstrated throughout history. Millions of soldiers lost their lives in WW1 all because of the national pride of their ruling aristocrats.

No, of course not. And this is precisely my point... Feeling guilty about the negative actions of people who happened to be born within the same arbitrarily-defined borders as you in the distant past is irrational and patently absurd, I think everybody would agree. Yet for some reason many people think it is perfectly OK to feel pride about the positive stuff, when in in fact it is just as irrational and absurd.

So it's OK to feel pride in the achievements of your nation while completely washing your hands of any embarrassment for the bad things is it?

This is exactly the point though. If you refuse to feel guilt for the bad things that 'England' has done, then why should you feel pride for the good things?

Yay! I'm going to fly a big flag outside my window showing my undying support for some Turkish bloke who never set foot on English soil!

It's the same religious framework, based on the same sacred texts, so yes. If Islamic leaders did not insist on women covering themselves up in the name of Allah then there would be no grounds for this guy to hold this opinion.

Yes I acknowledge that. But it is because of the dogmatic nonsense that this man has been subjected to throughout his life that he thinks this way, so the Islamic religion as a whole is indirectly responsible for his irrationality.

And here was me thinking it was because Iran is located on the convergent boundary between the Eurasian and Arabian tectonic plates, but apparently it's because some young Iranian women like to show a bit of their hair in public.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/apr/19/women-blame-earthquakes-iran-cleric It seems the stupidity of religion knows no bounds.

The most telling thing for me is that when Ivanovic pushed him in the face in retaliation, his first instinct was to put his hand up to appeal to the ref, then when he realised that his actions hadn't gone un-noticed he pretended to limp as if to con the ref into thinking he had been fouled. I don't care how talented he is, the guy is an utter turd and deserves a lengthy ban. Undoubtedly the most dislikeable footballer to 'grace' the PL since El Hadj Diouf.

I think you over-estimate the sanity and integrity of the US security forces. There is an excellent article in today's Independent about just this subject... http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-boston-bombs-roused-a-monster-8581430.html

We've already played them at home. Our upcoming game is away. HTH.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22133505 Can't see anything about it on the OS, but congratulations José

This is very interesting (aimed mostly at you pap)... http://www.naturalnews.com/039977_The_Craft_Boston_marathon_private_military_contractors.html#ixzz2QqTg5NwO

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/04/19/tamerlan_tsarnaev_dead_bombing_suspect_i_don_t_have_a_single_american_friend.html

Surely you mean "Can you tell what it is yet?"?

Right, so basically every TV personality or childrens presenter from my childhood was actually a sexual deviant yeah? Who next? Timmy Mallet?

Similar to this...

Fantastic news. Just got to get Shaw's signature on that contract in the summer now and we can really look forward to next season in the knowledge that we will either have our best players still in the squad or will receive a massive fee for them. But... what the hell is the deal with these watches!?!?

Are they really any more unsightly than electricity pylons? I don't think so at all. Also, if you could provide a reference for your 'no proven benefit' comment, that would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah agreed, there are a few names on there that I would question. Jonno Quick for instance, he clearly wasn't (isn't) terrible, and his two goals against MK Dons were such a defining moment in our promotion from L1 that he deserves a place in the SFC hall of fame IMO. Van Damme is another - I thought he was a pretty decent player considering the overall quality of our team at the time.

In fairness Trousers, he is right. Some of the comments from our fans on there are cringeworthy. But then, they are no different from what we had to endure when the shoe was on the other foot. So what goes around comes around I suppose.

Olivier Bernard. Signed on loan by Redknapp during our relegation season from the prem. A left back in exactly the same mould as Danny Fox, in that he couldn't defend and had no positional sense whatsoever, but with the added burden of the fact that he clearly couldn't be ar$ed.

It's a bloody good job I wasn't drinking coffee when I saw this! I would be requesting a new laptop from work tomorrow if I had!