Turkish

How do Man United know their new manager wants Shaw? Would Shaw want to go to a club where he didn't know who was going to be managing him, if he was going to be playing etc? £100k a week and playing for one of the worlds biggest clubs is a huge carrot but dont assume this is as done a deal as it's being made out.

Narrowly losing an FA Cup final is never coming close to winning anything? Okay then.

Not trying to convince you of anything, you're doing a good job of convincing everyone you're a plum though.

Other than turning a team with no top half finishes for 10 years into one that has top 8 finishes for 9 out of 11 years with a net spend of £12m, spending £170m less than Newcastle and the same as Sunderland and not being relegated, qualifying for the champions leauge, cup finals, buying players like Joleen Lescott and Micheal Arteta and selling them for four time what he paid for them, no.

Newcastle spent £170m more, are lower now than Moyes finished in the last 8 years and have been relegated in the same period. SUnderland are bottom and have also been relegated during Moyes tenure at Everton and have spent about the same at them. "Not a shred of evidence to prove he's a good manager"

Exactly this. A supporter wants what is best for the club and when things are said that seem improbable it's only right to question then. Blindly believing everything you are told, regardless of how unlikely it may seem, not questioning it, shouting down, aggresion and accusing anyone who does and accuse them of agendas are not the actions of supporters, more like extremists.

No, their top 8 finishes for 9 of the last 11 years were nothing to do with moyes. BTW here's his list of transfers, in his 11 years a net spend of about £12m, whilst finishing top 8 in 9 of them "Not a shred of evidence he's a good manager" http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/everton-transfers.html

key point in the first line pal "Everton's spot in the top 10 comes as the result of longevity more than anything" Keep trying though.

Everton finishes in the last 20 years. Moyes joined in 2002, done on a relative shoestring. "not a shred of evidence hes a good manager" 1992-93 13th 1993-94 17th 1994-95 15th 1995-96 6th 1996-97 15th 1997-98 17th 1998-99 14th 1999-2k 13th 2000-01 16th 2001-02 15th 2002-03 7th 2003-04 17th 2004-05 4th 2005-06 11th 2006-07 6th 2007-08 5th 2008-09 5th 2009-10 8th 2010-11 7th 2011-12 7th 2012-13 6th

MP Didn't buy Shaw, Chambers, Ward-Prowse, Lallana or Gallagher but he plays them. You could equally argue it's hard not to play Shaw. Not sure how anyone can say he didn't do a good job at Everton. When he went to Everton they were a poor team and nearly went down a couple of times, regularly finishing in the bottom 1/3rd of the league, in the 10 years proceeding him they only finished in the top half once and finishes of 14th-17th were usual. He had a tricky second season there but aside from that in 11 years there they only finished outside of the top 8 once and he hardly spent a fortune in the transfer market during his time there. Usual bandwagon jumpers trying to discredit his achievements it seems.

Other than that he makes some great points, yes?

No its not, if every game was brilliant and had you on the edge of your seat, if Every single game was a thriller you'd soon forget about one in 2005, what was so different about that game to the cup finals the 60 years before and 9 years since? You need the crap games to appreciate the good ones.

And continue to pay their subscriptions and snuggle up in the sofa moaning about the crap analysis and commentary. The mongboards of the future will contain threads about how many grounds the armchair fan has seen on telly, not how May grounds they've visited themselves. Their memories won't be of trips to places like Barnsley and Wallsall you'd have no need to go to on Tuesday night, but of the strangest pubs they've watched a game where they missed two goals because stream fell out, it never happens these days. I just hope when that day comes I've hung up my keyboard and talk on chat rooms with other old boys about how mongboards aren't as good as they used to be.

And if every game was like Liverpool v Milan we wouldn't appreciate the ones that are.

And that's all that matters, the neutrals watching on telly are happy, forget the Chelsea fans, forget getting to the champions league final, forget your reputation as a manager as long as some bloke watching his widescreen with a cup of tea and crumpets is happy that's all that matters.

I've got as much chance of getting the job as MP.

It was a cock up, they had me down as working for my former employer and current one, they never got a P45 from the old one apparently which I left in July so assumed I had two jobs with a combined income from both. Going to amend the tax code and will get the overpayment back next month, thanks for help everyone.

Unless you're sniffing a couple of grams during a game it really isn't.

Pretty impressive backtracking even by this forums standards. 5.25, Shaw and Schniderlin both turned down champions league clubs to stay with us. 6.48 same posters admits he's guessing Shaw did and Schniderlin didn't even speak to arsenal

Funny isn't it. Early in the season people were moaning that we didn't score from open play and we only scored from dead balls or penalties, now people are moaning that we dont score from them. You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

So that table is irrelevant yet this one wasn't? http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?47356-Rolling-Premier-League-table#.U1YXIZm9LCQp

There is a saying in business 'under promise over deliver' we've had many clubs claiming they were aiming for the champions league and ended up being relegated and struggling in the leagues below. Our glorious ex CEO would love to run his mouth off about what we were going to do and everyone lauded his ambition and drive because he told them what they wanted to hear, but ultimately didn't or wasn't allowed to stick around to see it through. The fact of the matter was though that he could say what he wanted, it wasn't his money to be ambitious with and that's why he isn't here any more. Some people were taken in by it all, they dreamed and Franco likes to put it, others with a more realistic approach and questioned how these dreams were to be made reality were called negative, trolls and WUMs who hated the chairman. The main person who was key to all this is still here, Katrina Liebherr, she ultimately will agree how much ambition is real and how much is talk. The loss of one pint sized man and his built up shoes and ego doesn't change that.

Thanks 42

and a refund hopefully