Turkish

He was supposed to be amazing. I spoke to Ian Jureyff about him when he was at the club and said that he was one of the best young players hed ever seen. There was some issue with his permit that meant he could play in front of a paying crowd or somethign odd like that IIRC. Last seen playing in Ukbekistan i believe.

I'm sure they'll be shamed into pay tax when they realise a pensioner from Gloucestershire or where it is has outed them on a soccerball forum.

What do you say to your grandchildren when they ask you why you don't buy them any Christmas presents?

I said that morally he should question taking a wage from the country where he morally objects to honouring their dead serviceman that fought to give him the right to earn that wage.

What question would that be colin? The one you told me the answer to? If its not a question of morals what is it a question of? No one is demanding he be removed from the country, again youre not understanding. It really is quite simple. Of his morals prevent him from wearing a logo embroidered onto a football shirt which represents respect for the dead of the country that employ him, then surely he wouldn't want to betray his morals by earning a living in that country. As I said earlier would you work in country where you were encouraged to sieg Heil every morning or would your morals prevent this?

You don't have to worry about Christmas presents JB. She isn't religious and doesn't believe we live in a Christian country so her she wouldnt allow herself to betray those morals by celebrating a Christian festival.

Another thread you've turned it into a personal attack on me. Massive tsk.

Agains, you're failing to understand, i didn't say they should be mandatory. Poppies are worn to represent the dead of that country, if McClean feels he cannot betray his own morals and wear one, as his is choice, then surely he also shouldnt betray his own morals and earn his money in the same country, it's as simple as that is it not?

Nothing a few peronis couldn't sort out I'm sure!

The Irish one isn't. Maybe that's why mcleans morality only goes as far as the amount of 0's in his wages.

Of course it is, people died to ensure that option was available, I'm surprised you fail to appreciate that!!! So I'll ask again, would you work for a company, in a country where it opposed to what you believed in? Or would you look elsewhere for employment?

I don't see a grey area colin, I'm surprised you do. If I worked in a country and for an organisation That held beliefs that were against mine I'd look elsewhere for employment. That's the thing I find most amusing about people these days, the have morals and ethics when it suis them, but when it doesn't they don't. So are you saying you'd take a wage from a company that encouraged a Sieg heil every mornings even though you agreed with everything else they stood for or would you not work there because morally it would be wrong for you to work for a company like that?

It doesn't because You're not understanding Colin. Morally both of us would never ever accept that doing this is right, so we wouldn't work for or accept a wage from a company that suggested we do this. so if this Sunderland player, McClean is morally opposed to wearing a poppy, surely his morality would exempt him from collecting a wage in a country and from an organisation that encourages to do something he is opposed to?

So let's say you were offered and accepted a job in Germany, everything was perfect apart from you were encouraged, not forced, but encouraged, to Sieg heil, every morning. Would you as a moral person, be happy to continue to take a wage from this company, or start to question if you were right to be there, regardless of if you agreed with everything else the company stood for?

I feel we've been through this before Colin. Yes, he has a right not to wear it, we agree on that. But if he's that opposed and has that much of a Moral problem with the country that he earns his living in, then maybe he should also be questioning if he is working in the right country that reflects his moral stand point? I know I would be.

Err no, I think you'll find I found that chant emabrassing. Whats your point on that? So are you saying we've brought in players for big money that don't care about the club? Bit of a worry....

You've not addressed my point Colin. If he has that much of a problem with respecting the people who made his lifestyle possible, perhaps his morality will stop him earning his living in the same country? I don't doubt he's a moral chap, hes made that clear, so Prehaps he'll look to earn his living elsewhere. Thats what I'd do if I had no respect for the country I worked in. After making such a statement we wouldn't want there to be any double standards would we.

So when Lambert, Lallana and so on take the field they don't represent SFC they represent themselves? Do you believe that when ever any unsavoury reports are in the media about SFC players it doesnt reflect badly on the club, or only on the player in question? Also what about this players moral view of not respecting the people who made it possible to enjoy the lifestyle does?

It might not have been. Before the easter uprising plenty of catholics fought with the British. Plenty of catholics and Irish have died on foreign soil fighting for us. And I'm sure plenty of people from Sunderland have died or fought for their country. Does McClean represent them or himself?

You're right of course,it is his right. our fathers fathers and their fathers made this possible. You have to question how much it means to him though, like a lot of people that have come into this country, happy to take, not so happy to give.

Where do you stand on his moral crusade? He's happy to earn an undoubtably good living in this country, but not willing to respect those who died to make it possible.

Maybe I'm grateful for what I've got and appreciate those who made it possible? As I said above,if the Irish lad has such a moral issue with it, maybe he should earn his living and pay tax in another country?

Why is it? Is it really that big an ask to respect the lives of people that died to enjoy the freedom that you do now? If this Irish fella has got such an issue with it then surely he wouldnt want to work or pay tax to a country he is so opposed to.

I disagree. If people want to earn a living in this country and put themselves in the public eye, then they should, respect our customs and history. Thyedont repesent themselves, they reprsent the city they play for. People have pointed out that he has a freedom to choose to wear a poppy or not. If brave men hadn't died he wouldn't have this right and he wouldn't have the lifestyle he enjoys now. If he's got that high a moral view of it he can always f*ck off and earn his living elsewhere.