hypochondriac

Sorry but I don't think either of us will find common ground here I'm afraid but at least we can have a civil discussion about it. I consider there to be a multitude of factors which cause disparities in outcomes and that even with equality being assured you'd still end up with big inequalities eventually because that's human nature. It's a bit like when people continually complain about the much higher number of females who do jobs that require care.Female, male, cultural norms, testosterone levels, intelligence, strength, personality, biology and yes discriminstion and in some cases racism, all of these factors will have an impact on outcomes and its not controversial to say that where issues exist within various communities, it is helpful to look at the responsibilities they have for sorting issues alongside looking at how wider society etc can assist. I used the lower working class example earlier because I have to deal with a lot of these people all the time. Many white working class families have poor outcomes for their children because they do the wrong things, do not parent correctly and end up with messed up offspring as a result. Society can help to an extent, but the most successful are those who engage with help, take some responsibility for their lives and do what they need to do to improve the life chances of themselves and their children. In a number of cases- not all but a number- blaming some sort of racist system or all white people being racist and keeping all differently coloured people down is an abdication of personal responsibility and an easy way to avoid taking responsibility for your own failings.

Things have progressed to the point that legal rights are now equal and mistreatment by police - especially the UK- is dealt with harshly regardless of the skin colour of the victim which is exactly how it should be. So now because there's no overt examples of racism that aren't challenged and cracked down on immediately (as it should be) campaigners have to go searching for covert forms so any disparities between black and white people is due to racism and discrimination, unconscious bias theory has popped up which is essentially the original sin of white people that can only be cleansed by obvious outward signs of your opposition to racism, public atonement for your transgressions and the castigation of dissenters who are not as vociferous as you are in their condemnation. Individuals are no longer condemned for what they say because everyone knows that racism is unacceptable so now you have to read intent into what someone has said so what someone says is racist anyway even if it was not designed to be and even if they repeatedly call for equal rights for all because everyone knows that's what real nazis want. It's no longer good enough to call for a time where skin colour is not an importance like Dr King, its now very important to prioritise black businesses and make the colour of your skin your defining characteristic because white silence is violence and a constant awareness of your skin colour at all times is a requirement for living in modern society.

Absolutely. The lower class labourer just scraping by and disproportionately affected by the Covid crisis is hardly going to have endless levels of sympathy for multi millionaires like Anthony Joshua or Lewis Hamilton who seek to lecture others about the ills of their ancestors whilst signing up to the latest Tommy hilfiger or Nike campaign and instructing their followers to prioritise black owned businesses.

Couldn't disagree more. "white people" are not some homogenous group, we are all individuals and all have been subject to various biases to differing degrees throughout our lives. No random person can point to another random person with a different skin colour and say with any certainty that they have been subjected to a greater or lesser degree of discrimination purely due to their skin colour. You have no evidence to say that high levels of fatherlessness in black families "stems solely from inequality". Are there not cultural factors to consider that would have an independent effect on people's outcomes regardless of some inequality? The way you talk it's as if inequality is the only factor to consider and is the root of every problem or disparity between racial groups. Also unconscious bias is a load of pseudo scientific guff.

I'll be charitable and assume you mean on average rather than every case. High levels of fatherlessness has a huge impact for people's outcomes regardless of race but it just so happens that this level is disproportionately high for black families. Sorting that issue and the allure of gang culture and violence levels would lead to higher employment rates, increase levels of education, improve health (which incidentally would have massively decreased the risk of covid for many black people), and would have an indirect impact on relationships with the police because you would ultimately see lower levels of crime, less police encounters, less stop and search etc etc. Its simple to blame every difference on racism or white supremacy and much more difficult and less black and white (excuse the pun) to talk about the multitude of reasons for it.

You see and some of your critics would stereotype you as a boorish Englishman stuck in the past. Your ancestors would never have gone to the trouble of learning the local dialect to tell a Spanish waiter to fuck off.

If we were to look at stats I'd imagine that a very high proportion of stop and search candidates would happen to be male. Does that make the UK police force institutionally racist?

It's black lives matter supporters asking for BAME people to be treated as a distinct group. I'd prefer that we concentrated on shared values and the content of one's character rather than what shade their skin happens to be but apparently we can't do that anymore. If we are hellbent on seeing colour and making it a factor then if we want to solve problems we need to look at it in all caees and not just when it's convenient. There's large amount of black on black crime in the UK and particularly in London. There's high levels of knife crime committed by black UK citizens. There's high levels of fatherlessness and single parent households in bame families. Pointing out that these things need sorting and that if it were successful it would lead to vastly better outcomes for black people isn't racist it's a statement of fact. Unless you're suggesting there isn't what could be referred to as a black community in the likes of London?

Incredible. So presumably no community has any sort of role in sorting out any problems within their own communities? So in your mind it would be racist to state that there is an issue of class in British society where some lower working class white individuals are discriminated on due to their status but also that this same community have a role to play to sort out lower levels of parental engagement with their children's education which undoubtedly contributions to a problem of lower achievement. That's the same logic.

I hope not. No keeper should be dropped for one poor performance and its a good opportunity for him to bounce back quickly.

It's not debatable that white lives matter doesn't share the same cultural and historical baggage that white power does.

I think you are intelligent enough to realise that no one is being physically forced to kneel and you know what he meant. I expect you wouldn't even get 100% of BLM supporters to agree with footballers taking a knee so football would be quite the outlier if every single footballer who plays agrees with taking the knee. The point is that thebcknseqienxesnofnnotndoibg so are so unpalatable that effectively they don't have a choice.

So you don't think there's any sort of political and societal pressure to conform? Do you think if a player decided not to their decision would be met with a shrug and no one would care? Or do you think they would be vilified accross social media and probably be prevented from playing again?

Have they been overlooked? If anything they've all been reported on and condemned by opposing side with neither side stopping to consider it ironic that their tolerance for gatherings in the current climate is directly proportional to how much they agree with the politics of the people involved.

Hold on. Is there a disproportionate problem with violence (in particular black on black violence) in the UK black community or not? That's not ignoring violence from other communities, it's stating a fact. Its irresponsible to discuss problems and how to solve them whilst avoiding clear issues for fear of appearing racist. That's how you end up in appalling situations like Pakistani rape gangs in the North.

Absolutely.

I don't agree with your stuff about unconscious bias but the rest of the post was pretty good. I think there'd be a much more receptive audience if as you say people dial down the aggressive rhetoric and actions and actually work on things which may do some good such as actions to reduce single parent families, gang culture, violent crime etc. I expect that efforts to reduce the number of single parent families - if it worked- would do more to improve outcomes for the black community than any sort of tokenism or diversity training. Likewise, sorting out the shocking levels of black on black crime would see a much greater improvement than multi millionaires kneeling at the football or giving sizable donations to the black lives matter organisation.

Any rioting in the current climate is dumb and wrong. Couldn't care less what skin colour the perpetrators are.

Again this is a common tactic to suggest I lack empathy for others rather than fundamentally disagreeing with their world view. I'm perfectly comfortable with level of empathy I display to all manner of people unlike people like you whose capacity for empathy seems to end once someone expresses the wrong opinions that they disagree with. Also patronising and wrong for you to suggest that all "people of colour" somehow possess the same opinions on this as if they are some sort of amorphous blob. There are clear and obvious problems in the black community that need to be worked on alongside any other complaints of racism.

That must have been really frightening and no wonder it influences your opinion on the matter. Its a shame that some of the replies to your post thus far are just expressing faux outrage or indignation rather than a bit of empathy for someone who clearly has some real world experience of some of the issues. I think it's a bit hypobolic to claim we are a lawless state but I get what you are saying. To be fair I think you absolutely are allowed to speak out about rioting and issues within the black community itself but it is true to say that there is a smearing effort from some outlets if you do so.

Each to their own but I don't see why anyone needs to see your homemade falafel all over social media that took you three times as long on the gas cooker in the back garden.

A distant relative of mine has been putting up "festival" food he's been making with his wife in the garden with a camping gas cooker all weekend. Loser.

He's been in a twitter war with people for ages. He does seem a bit of a berk on there but obviously once you upset the trans lobby he will have had an army reporting every tweet he makes so it was only a matter of time. You can get banned on twitter for ridiculous things anyway when it comes to trans things like so called "deadnaming" and referring to someone like Bruce Jenner as a he so it's not much of a surprise. Jk is much too big to get banned I expect but it's rather amusing that someone as right on and woke as she is can also get eaten by her "side" for the crime of calling a woman a woman.

Being serious I can't see why anyone would rather buy Burnley than saints.

When it's your right of way and someone gets all arsey because you don't immediately thank them for something they are legally required to do that's also annoying.