hypochondriac

Indeed it is. Responses like this should be applauded and seeds like this should be cultivated throughout Islamic society.

I never claimed there were any apologists for this specific event, rather I said there has been a denial and downplaying of the problem and a refusal to address where the issues stem from on this thread which amounts to apologism. That has been addressed throughout the entire thread and the funny thing is that if it were accepted in wider socoety that the Muslim community need to take their share of responsibility for sorting this out then the problem would be reduced much quicker in my opinion. People are paralysed by political correctness and the desire not to be seen as racist so very little gets done. If I were a religious person and weekly atrocities were being committed in the name of my religion and my community then I would be demanding that something was done, I would be personally affronted that this was happening and look to work with the authorities in whatever way I can to report anyone I had suspicions about and drive this extremist element out of my life and community. There are some Muslims who have sought to do this but you only have to listen to the radio phone in shows today and on previous occasions and on Twitter etc to see the number who want to deny the link exists or who think acts like this are in some way justified. No doubt there are a number of peaceful and lovely 'Muslims' who clearly pick and choose what they want to believe from the Qaran (some would argue this makes them inoslamic), but you will find that even then according to stats a majority of Muslims in Britain have some absolutely abhorrent views about gay people, Jewish people or minorities (my father in law and the rest of his community for instance would not have accepted my wife's brother if he were gay or if anyone in the family had married a black person.) It's undeniable that the Islamic religion has a problem with extremism that it needs to address, along with more moderate groups who need to admit the problem and propose rational ideas for fighting it otherwise the far right is unfortunately going to become more popular as they are currently the only ones unafraid about political correctness and the only ones discussing this issue and giving people a voice. I don't think any sane person wants the likes of Tommy Robinson screaming about terrorism immediately following an attack but if this problem refuses to be addressed sensibly by mainstream society then this is only going to happen more. It's a similar thing with Brexit where people were sick of their valid concerns being ignored or being caricatured as racists and xenophobes.

Lots of people saying this bloke was not a Muslim. What I want to know is at what point did he stop becoming one? The moment he killed someone? If so I'm concerned by the amount of ex Muslims in recent years who have only announced their apostasy by killing and maiming other people.

Yep but I'm not sure how that can happen when some of the public won't even accept that it's a problem coming from within the Islamic religion.

We have had this conversation before soggy. Last time this happened you could identify two comments from two posters that amounted to "slagging off all Muslims." I emphasised the fact that it's actually a tiny number who condemn ALL Muslims but I condemned the two comments that said so. You're going to have to try harder to find that non-existent Islamaphobia.

The common refrain from you soggy and others like you when someone brings up Islamic terrorism and how a majority of Muslims believe some despicable things are things like "Christians are just as bad" "what about the crusades?" "Nazis were Christian you know" "lets just talk to IS we don't have to get rid of them." You tie yourself up in knots trying to downplay the effect of radical Islam over the last 20 years and absolutely refusing to concede that some of the responsibility for this rests on the shoulders of the Islamic communities in the UK. I condemn all forms of extremism but it is clear for all to see that it's the extremism emanating from the Islamic community that has been the cause of an overwhelming number of deaths and appaling crimes in recent years. The simple truth is that many Muslims have some hideously regressive views that should be abhorrent to anyone who values Western values and freedom. Islamic extremism is a threat to our society and needs to be urgently tackled both by Western society and in the Islamic communities themselves. Do you disagree?

That isn't what I mean at all. Anyone who thinks that every Muslim is a terrorist is frankly an idiot. I am married to someone from an Islamic background where most of her family are Muslims so I know more than most that not every person is a terrorist (though why you feel this needs repeating for the billionth time I have no idea.) When someone wants to have an honest discussion about the problem with Islamic extremism and how it can be combated in the West and within Islamic communities then most of the time they are accused of Islamaphobia, called racists and mindless comparisons are brought out about the crusades, christian Nazis and the KKK from 50 years ago which is the equivalent to sticking fingers in ears and humming loudly. Frankly you have simply not read the thread if you believe there is not a denial from many about this problem which I and others believe amounts to an apologist attitude. Radical Islamic terror- particularly the kind exported over the last 20 years is a real problem that needs to be urgently tackled in the West and in the Islamic community. Many will not even admit there is a problem.

Not sure why people get so angry about the BBC supposedly being biased. I expect they probably are in some circumstances but I trust myself to seek out other sources as well so I can get a balanced viewpoint. There is always left wing and right wing sources worthy of a read and actually sometimes I have noticed that the BBC will give too much credence to an outlandish view in their desire to present 'the other side'.

Indeed but what I will say is people sticking their fingers in their ears every time this happens does not help things at all.

Read this thread would be my suggestion. It's absolutely packed with it.

Isn't that what the entire thread has been about? The UK calling out Islamic terrorism for what it is and admitting we have a problem with it would be a start.

Every time some Islamic nutter does something like this, it just makes the apologists look more ridiculous. Look how many of these attacks there have been over the last few years. It's just shocking.

Indeed. Nothing to do with Islam.

Being treated as a terrorist incident. Disgusting.

I doubt she has lost interest. I expect the plan was always to get us as far as she could take us with minimal outlay on her part. She probably understands that our current selling strategy is fairly unsustainable in the long term and is probably looking for a return on her investment as well as securing our future in memory of her father (I imagine that academy building named in his honour would represent an emotional tie still if nothing else.) I hope if we do sell to these guys that she has undertaken rigorous due diligence and received commitments in order to get us funded to a greater degree than we are being funded at the moment, otherwise what would be the point?

More than anything else, they don't appear to have an awful lot of cash which is normally a good indicator of intentions. Then you have the Chinese and the culture clash and there seems quite a lot of scope for things to go pear shaped.

This Lander Sports outfit seems pretty dodgy. If we are changing owners then I'd rather swap for another benevolent billionaire.

We aren't going down and with our best striker now injured and nothing left to play for, I've lost interest somewhat. I see no reason why we can't just play Stephens if we think that's best for him to gain some experience. It's not going to change much at this stage of the season.

Well it's called "Comic" relief so the clue is in the title really.

I thought we played well. After moaning at Puel about the poor results and our incredibly boring style of play he seems to have turned that around. We are now playing a consistent team which makes a huge difference. I'm still miffed about how we bombed out of Europe but our recent performances and cup final have taken the edge off.

It absolutely does not. I reckon we will keep him for one more season but not a chance does an injury prevent his transfer.

Well he wasn't overrated. Under poch he was statistically one of the best midfielders in the world.

There's always Won.

If paying my TV license allows things like planet earth to exist then I consider it a price worth paying.

Currently the government does: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/guidance-on-promoting-british-values-in-schools-published