hypochondriac

Not everyone shallows everything they read in this manner.

Jesus Christ! Van Dijk is the greatest defender of the last 15 years after 4 games and now this. Bloody hell...

Making up things again soggy. It's your favourite pastime.

I'm not sure the comparison is valid here. It's terrible that she has had to go through so much. Doesn't mean some people haven't acted like nutters on here. You can of course have sympathy for the victim whilst discussing the case and the possibility that his appeal will succeed. Calling those who question a verdict rape apologists is as idiotic as labelling everyone who voted conservative heartless monsters.

I'm not sure of the relevance and you are arguing semantics now. It was only when labour came back to the centre that they were successful. A left wing (not centre left) government will not be voted for by the British public.

Some people read up on the details of the case and came to the conclusion that there appeared to be some inconsistencies about this particular case. When this was pointed out they were accused of being rape apologists both on here and in the media. If an appeal is now successful then hopefully those people will reflect on jumping on the bandwagon so soon and labelling people simply for questioning the judgement of the court (which everyone agrees is not infallible.)

They were but that isn't what he said. He said that the British public won't vote for a party that is perceived to be left wing. Tony Blair's labour were centre left not left wing.

Of course but it's a bit rich from certain people screaming rape apologist at those who simply pointed out that there appeared to be more to this case than met the eye.

So they were closer to the centre which is the exact point he was making. They weren't extremely left wing or at least were never perceived to be

Yeah probably. My guess is that would be a very high percentage.

So what percentage do you think were just normal people who believed the tories were best for the country at the moment?

So as a percentage of tory voters, how many do you reckon that is? Best guess?

It's idiotic in the format proposed by the government- ie a blanket rate whilst keeping everything else such as hourly nursery rates the same. As I said in that exact post the numbers don't stack up. By all means introduce a living wage but it's idiotic not to raise the rate for nursery hours accordingly.

I agree with you there, it's a silly policy. He whole living wage thing makes a good headline but as always with these things it's an unworkable policy unless you are going to properly fund it.

Was Tony Blair's labour perceived to be left wing by the majority of the British public?

So you are really labelling everyone who voted conservative as indecent? Really??? That's a big claim. I'm sure that many people would argue that the poorest would be in a worse situation had labour been able to enact some of their disastrous economic policies and the economy collapsed again.

I condemned it because I am aware of the current level of hourly childcare rate paid by the government. I said that I supported the living wage as long as the government raised the hourly rate so that it was affordable for nurseries. As I consider it unlikely that the government will raise this rate properly it is my view (and the view of many others within the sector) that a number of nurseries will be forced to close as it will no longer be financially viable for them.

Exactly. Many current labour supporters seem to believe that this is because either those who voted tory were stupid, they went for the easy option, are overly influenced by the media or are heartless and selfish and only care about themselves. The real answer is that most people are generally decent people who didn't buy what labour were offering and they don't want a left wing government who bow down to the unions and are anti business. Characterising all Tory voters in this way (as labour voters like to do) doesn't help the debate and certainly isn't going to persuade them to change their vote in the future. Labour need to start offering something that people want other than "we are nicer to vulnerable people and the disabled." of course that's a good thing but unless they do something else other than say how despicable the tories are then they won't win an election.

The fact is that people don't currently want what labour are offering. After the election was the time to step up and show that they had compassion but also that they were pro business and had learnt the lessons on economic policy. Instead they have gone in the opposite direction. Anyone who complains about the Tories should realise that Labour are just as much to blame. If they sorted themselves out and offered something worth voting for then they would probably win but you can believe it's because people just find it easy to vote for the tories if you want. It's not true in my opinion.

No offence mate but before he election you were harping on about how evil the tories were and how they weren't going to get elected and you were badly wrong.

I'm guessing you have zero knowledge of the childcare sector. I've also never said that, I simply said that I wasn't prepared to raise childcare costs any higher for families who find it a struggle as it is. The government should either keep tax credits or pay a proper rate for hourly childcare.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. "it's all those thick idiots who believe all that right wing stuff." heaven forbid that people weighed things up and made an intelligent choice that the labour party simply were not the party they wanted to lead the country (and they still aren't.) it's your attitude primarily that turns people off from the left.

I think the tories should care more but they are currently the only party that is realistic about things and doesn't go off into some fairyland world or be motivated by the politics of envy. The article was saying that although he is a reluctant tory, he believes that disastrous labour policy would have been a lot less caring because it would have turned out a whole lot worse. I agree with him.

Good article. Encapsulates perfectly why the tories won.

Referred for appeal so a real possibility the conviction could be quashed (according to the analyst on radio 2 anyway.) Big if but if it were to happen I wonder if people's opinions would change? Certainly some people in the media and some of the mentalists shouting 'rape apologist' will look a little silly. Just underlines the point that the jury system is certainly not infallible regardless of the verdict being quashed.