CanadaSaint

I'm not obsessed with Jones at all Mr. One Post. In fact, I've complained about the fact that there was a poll on here telling him that he wasn't wanted before he had even managed a game. While I certainly had my doubts about his suitability, I was more than willing to give him a chance before deciding. Not too sure who's included in your "rest of us" group, but the one I'm most aware of consists of a large majority who have long supported this club and always will - people who have seen enough of his bizarre lineups and tactics, his propensity for blaming the players when the problem is his system, and his stubborn refusal to see that these are major problems. This isn't about Jones the person but Jones the manager. If the late J. Christ of Bethlehem came here and pulled that stuff, he'd take shit as well. If you want to talk about "weird", I'd venture to suggest that the word applies more to new posters who suddenly appear on here to defend the indefensible. (Sorry if the above reference offends your religious sensitivities.)

He certainly should but I can't see it happening. Sadly, I think he's in that type we bump into every so often in life - "I, I, I, me, me, me - oh no, that was him". Nothing endears a manager to his players more than one who takes it on the chin publicly when they screwed up. Nothing draws more player contempt than when the manager publicly blames the players for his own failures. This is why Jones needs some supervisory intervention before things get any worse.

It's so fundamental that it creates this dichotomy: if we're going to play a back 5, we have a relegation squad, but if we play a four we have a mid table squad. Same players. I'd say that about 40% of the criticism that falls on our players is self-inflicted and deserved. About 60% comes from trying to make Jones's unworkable system work. You can see the role confusion in their faces and in their movement and game-reading (or lack thereof). Salisu is a good example. Not that long ago he looked like a solid CB, and the Big Boys were watching him. But now he's caught in this mental void somewhere between CB and LB, and he's nowhere near as assured. He hasn't suddenly become a weak CD. Lyanco, on the other hand, finds a spot in our back line because we're hell bent on playing 3 CDs. For me, he either plays the Romeu role in front of the Back 4 or he doesn't play at all. So, all the marbles are down to what Jones decides/is permitted to play from hereon in.

I'm still hoping for an answer to my earlier question: who does Jones report to regarding playing affairs? We have almost total unanimity and palpable anger on here about his Back 3/Back 5 lunacy, and yet he's allowed to persist with it. I've never seen a manager so hell bent on playing to our weaknesses rather than our strengths. And he does it even though the same players consistently look much better when we play a 4. So who is it that allows (or encourages) him to keep pulling this mindless, destructive shit? My only hope at this point is that he'll be forced away from it by the arrival of the new signings, but I'm not holding my breath.

He's gone

We can keep blaming individual players until we go blue in the face, but the reality is that they're being asked to make Jones's unworkable system work. The sign of a good manager is getting the best out of his players. Almost to a man, our guys have been playing as badly as we've seen them play - until Jones forsakes his nutjob Back 3/Back 5, and then everyone looks better. I could cut Jones some slack if he looked like he was learning, but his arrogance doesn't allow that. It'll be the same at the weekend when his ego picks the team again.

Jones is functioning like a manager who doesn’t report to anybody – at least anybody with any understanding of the game. It’s mind-blowing that he’s allowed to persist with formations that are clearly suicidal. Starting Bree, who’s never played at anywhere near this level, when he has an established RB and LB at his disposal was absolutely mental. Ralph was hammered for not having a Plan B, but for 80% of his games Jones’s Plan A has been dreadful. He seems hell-bent on playing to our weaknesses with his Back 3/Back 5 shit. My question is this: Who does Jones report to on the playing and tactical side, other than his own inflated ego?

Thanks, but is anyone getting sound on these?

The only semblance of logic I can think of is that it's part of a "hang on and hit them late" strategy, because we can certainly throw much more at them if we're not already out of it. The alternative explanation, of course, is Jones's recurrent desire to show that he's smarter than everyone else.

We've already got a Lavia but you just won't be happy until we sign an Areola, will you?

Given our past negotiating practice, offering the full buyout price without trying to haggle gives off a smell of owner-driven panic. I’m hopeful but certainly not optimistic when the hours and prospective candidates are falling fast.

Our back line is more balanced, and Salisu is more composed, with a left-footed LB in the lineup, and I like Perraud's positives. Pleased to see him score a couple because he adds something to us offensively. However, I can't help but fear that the two goals won't help him to address his biggest weakness - a failure to track back quickly enough when we lose possession. Unless I'm mistaken he was again on the wrong side of the Blackpool attack that lead to their goal.

You voiced your negative opinion of him shortly after he arrived, and you've felt the need to do it again and again and again in your torrent of posts. It's like you have this need to prove yourself right all the time. Give it a rest. Perraud is actually not "incredibly slow" - he's quite fast and skillful getting forward but his big problem is that he's infuriatingly slow getting back. That's coachable because you can't be fast heading north and slow heading south. His value to me is that he's a left-footed LB, which gives us some defensive balance. We didn't have that today, which caused Salisu to be heroic in covering acres of space. Oršić gave him virtually no help at all. Extremely disappointing. My fear is that we will not turn the corner until Jones plays a regular back four, powers-up in midfield, and gets the ball forward faster. But I don't think he will because he's besotted with playing three central defenders. And then, to make matters worse, he wants Bazunu to play it out to them even when they're ill-placed to receive it. If we're lucky, they scramble it back to him, and then he does what he should have done in the first place if the pass isn't on - hit it long.

I don't see us surviving this with three CDs and expecting Salisu to cover the entire back left quadrant. Trippier is pushing into that space every chance he gets. There's no discernible shape to our game. It's like a Dr. Frankenstein construction - stick some bits together and hope it gets up and walks. I'd pull Lyanco and put Perrault out there - before we get done down our left.

If there are any mea culpas, I think the mods on here deserve one - and I don't think I've ever taken a pop at them. The ill-advised poll asking "Do you want Nathan Jones to manage Southampton Football Club?" was started on November 8 - before NJ had even managed a game here. Naturally, people voted - some, again, before he'd even managed a game. Once someone voted "No", they felt obligated to move into "told you so - never wanted him here" mode, and it snowballed from there. WTF kind of welcome is that for a new manager, and what kind of signal does it send to players who hear about it? I wasn't thrilled with the appointment, and I'm still wondering what he did during the six weeks he had to assess the squad, but he didn't deserve that - never mind some of the personal shit that went along with it. Things look very different today, and I think both "sides" have learned from it, but it's time to turn the page and focus on the future - starting by locking the Nathan Jones Out thread.

That comment and his structure and tactics for the City game imply some pretty fundamental (and exciting) changes in approach. As much as I like Adams for his commitment, physicality and hold-up play, he's certainly not a good striker, and I think we looked better without him as a target man. His absence removed the option of whacking it up to him, and then trying (not very successfully) to get up there to give him layoff options. Instead, we worked the ball up with fast passing and great off-the-ball movement. Once up there, we were well-placed to apply an effective press - and quick enough to drop back when that was the right option. This package increases the chances that goals will come from the midfielders (a much upgraded area already), which - in turn - lessens the pressure on finding a "striker", although I'd still love to see one arrive. I don't see him coming back, but Ings could really prosper in that kind of set-up.

Let it not be lost on anyone that today’s heroes were yesterday’s zeroes. Hopefully that will tone down the overreaction and dilute the venom.

JWP has an engine like no other.

Clock's moving like a sun dial.

Don't dispute that at all. My point is that our build-up is better because we have to work the ball instead of whacking it.

Nothing against Adams but we're looking much better without a target man. There's a far lower temptation to whack it at him.

I don't think he should change anything structurally. The off-the-ball running, rapid ball movement, and intense pressing have been superb. That's come from top-notch effort levels, but they're unsustainable. His subs need to be saved for like-for-like replacements to try to keep that up, not structural changes.

Streaming dudes - anyone getting sound? "Unmute" opens dirty pics, so it's not a complete disaster. 🤣

The big problem with firing Jones is that it would cost a shit-ton of money - aside from the fact that it makes us look like we don't know what we're doing (which is probably true), and are devoid of principles (which has never really been the case with us). My suggestion in the opening post was that we bring someone in to supervise him, but we may not even have to do that. I can't imagine that his contract gives him free reign over all playing affairs. How many people, in any sphere, are hired without being accountable to someone for their performance? The tradition in football is to leave the manager/coach to handle the playing side, but that's not etched in stone. Jones reports to someone but we don't really know who that is. If I was Dragan and it was my money at stake, I would be focusing on that interface, and telling his supervisor to insist on some changes in structure and tactics. Most people on here could write them down on the back of an envelope; or Dragan could hire a coaching consultant to do it. Would that kind of intervention constitute "constructive dismissal"? I very much doubt it, considering the gong show of Jones's opening two months. It's just a workaround for a colossal screw-up. If Jones resists it, he effectively fires himself. If it doesn't work, firing him is the only remaining option, but the effort to get him to change should reduce the financial penalty. #clutchingatcheaperstraws

As is often its wont, this forum’s reaction to adversity is to lash out with over-the-top criticism and call for people to be fired, sold, never played again, or worse. Before Jones even started there was an ill-advised poll telling him the supporters didn’t want him here. The clamour to fire him has understandably gathered momentum, and now people want the ownership out as well (again). I’ll venture to suggest that the negativity seeped into the mindset of the players, and my sneaky suspicion is that we’re going to see more of them falling victim to tears of the “get me the fuck out of here” nerve. They hold the cards in the modern game, and too many of them look like they don’t want to be here. If I were part of the ownership group, I would certainly want to know what’s being said on forums like this. I don’t have to agree with it, and reading it would frustrate me because the fans can’t know everything that’s happening behind the scenes. But I’d definitely want to know what they’re saying. The negativity on here is like nothing I’ve ever seen before in all my years following this club, and – while understandable – it’s not going to get us out of the ever-deepening shit-pile we’re in. We desperately need a re-set before it’s too late. So, instead of focusing on the problems, let’s start talking about the solutions. I’ll suggest a few – albeit from 4,200 miles away. 1) Sports Republic needs to provide some reassurance, because their facelessness and deafening silence almost suggest that things are moving along in accordance with their grand plan. Continued silence will make us wonder even more what that plan actually is. But it will need much more than words from them. 2) I would argue that, even if his hiring may have been a serious error, firing Nathan Jones may not be financially feasible - or morally defensible. At the very least, I would bring in a supervisor with enough tactical nous to ensure that he sets us up correctly. He won’t like that, of course, but his tactics and lineups suggest that he hasn’t watched any game tape at all. I’m in the strong majority who feel that starting with a traditional back four, and building from there, could yield instant results. I think our squad is much better than it appears to be right now – or looked under Ralph in his last year or more. 3) I believe that Martin Semmens has alienated the fan base and failed in his supervisory role. Moving Redmond out, which he signalled ahead of time in his disgusting fan forum performance, didn’t solve any problems but painted over them. It also indicated that he didn’t see Ralph as the issue – even though everyone else did; the resultant delay in acting was deadly. Semmens needs to be replaced with an engaged and responsive figurehead that supporters can respect. I don’t like seeing people lose their jobs, but arrogance and smugness don’t sit well with me. 4) The financial penalty of relegation makes transfer fees pale into insignificance. The team and the fans need a boost, so the club needs to make some quality signings quickly – even if it means paying over the odds. Penny-pinching in the Summer (and on many occasions before) has made things far worse than they need to be, and a repeat will just about finish us. Unless we’re some form of tax write-off (which I don’t believe for a minute) the cost to the ownership group would be massive. I realize that all of the above has been said before, but I really think we need a thread focused on solutions instead of problems.