egg

The overnight events were utterly predictable - "move to south Gaza where you'll be safe", only to then get bombed in the south. "Ministry of Health officials have told us that at least 71 people were killed overnight in Israeli bombardments. The heaviest bombardments occurred in three areas in the south of Gaza: Khan Younis, Rafah and Deir el-Balah. Many of those killed are families who evacuated from Gaza City and the northern part of the Strip as ordered by Israel. Ambulances are transporting the injured to already overcrowded hospitals, and we are told that many people are still trapped in the rubble of the targeted buildings, awaiting rescue". Can any of the Israeli supporters explain how this gets anywhere near Israel defending itself?

Yeah, hideous behaviour. They can take out some of the individuals. All that'll achieve is a short term win, but result in a longer term and bigger fight. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

They will indeed. Regardless, wherever they are, Hamas can't be wiped off the map. Kill a leader, another steps up. Even then, you can't kill an ideology, and that ain't going anywhere as long as Israel occupy Palestinian land. The point that many are missing (not least Israel) is that this collective punishment will only breed the hatred/ideology/instability.

Recuperation

Sabbath

If you want to have a chat about Afghanistan (or Syria) crack on and start a thread mate.

I don't doubt that, and that ia why I believe there's a genuine push to force the Gaza population over the permanently. Netanyahu can't genuinely believe that he'll eradicate the Hamas threat from Gaza with military action. However, he'll be pretty certain that it is achievable if there's no Palestinians in Gaza and/or Gaza is destroyed to such an extent that no Palestinians can live there.

There's no loathing of Israel on this thread. There's loathing for the behaviour of the Israeli government. The difference is huge.

I'm not sure on the answer, but the Israeli government know that they won't wipe out Hamas or it's ideology. Until occupation ends I don't think that the ideology has even a modicum of hope of being erased. Even then I'm struggling to see that it will end, and events like this past week (the actions of both sides) only amplify the ideology that exists on both sides. Fwiw, I think we haven't seen anything yet in terms of this conflict. It won't end well for Palestinians, or Gaza and the West Bank, and it's people.

Ditto. I get that they'd had enough, but what they did was large scale terrorism. Sure, they expected a response , but did they expect something on this scale? The denial of water and food? The forced exodus to South Gaza, and then in all likelihood over the border? In terms of motivation I think that they thought that others would draw themselves in and attack Israel. In reality I can't see that happening. On that, Hamas didn't read the room.

I'm not getting into a Corbyn chat, but the rest of it is spot on. I honestly don't think that Western governments, and their supportive media, have read the room in terms of public opinion.

Sorry Badger, well reminded.

This is a very passionate and honest article from a Canadian journalist. I couldn't agree more with this part: "The monstrous plan is as plain as Netanyahu’s wretched character: Be done with Gaza by erasing Gaza. Anyone, anywhere, in any forum who denies this fact is either a liar, blind – or willfully, happily, and comfortably both". https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/14/this-is-genocide

Yep. Too good a game for the QF. 30 odd phases at the end, but superb defence from NZ.

Bath

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Paper

His selection alone justified it. Plus the performance. Plus the other stuff.

Lobster

Aerial

Ford

Read above Del. SoG has not dragged this thread down - he has contributed sensibly to the discussion. The descent of this thread is unfortunate, and hopefully it can get back to people offering their respective views in a reasonable way. Too many decent threads have been ruined by unnecessary nonsense, and this one is going the same way.

"Thick sunshine" doesn't have a great ring to it to be fair. Saying nothing probably more sensible though. On a general point, it's sad to see this thread, on such a difficult and sensitive subject, descend into the usual name calling and childish bollox. Most of the posters seem like intelligent people and you'd like to think they could focus on the issues rather than the people actually trying to discuss the issues.

If the people you spoke with wanted to see Gaza eradicated I can't imagine that they would tell a foreign traveller. Regardless, Netanyahu has said in the past week that he'll turn Gaza to rubble, not that you'll have seen msm report that. The Israeli government have form for doing what they want, not necessarily their people. Indeed, their leaders have previous for doing what they want, regardless of the government or public opinion - look at what Sharon did to the Bedouin people and it's land in Sinai. It's also worth remembering what Israel's defence minister said about Lebanon and Hezbollah recently. The quote is below - substitute Hamas for Hezbollah and Gaza for Lebanon and it's chillingly close to what we're seeing, and will doubtless see over coming days and weeks. “Do not make a mistake. We do not want a war. But we are prepared to protect our civilians, our soldiers and our sovereignty", "You (Lebanon / Hezbollah) have made mistakes in the past, you have paid very heavy prices. If … an escalation or conflict develops here, we will return Lebanon to the Stone Age.”, Gallant went on to say that Israel would not hesitate to use its power to “erode every inch of Hezbollah and Lebanon if we have to”. That's the reality of the Israeli governments mind set, right there.

There's a certain irony to Britain, Egypt and France ending up with Palestinian refugees. Bloody sad though.