egg

How about Lighthouse, do you believe that he has that pet goldfish? The obvious answer is neither yes or no..., but rather you don't know and/or couldn't possibly know. That's how agnosticism works.

Nice, and no surprise they're back up and running before us.

Partner

Lock

Remoaner? I voted leave mate. Its how we leave, when and in what terms that matter now. I didn't chicken out of of questions. Rather, I have no wish for a wider debate. Simply, I don't think it's sensible to leave on WTO terms, and that if this year is a virtual wrote off then we delay our leaving accordingly. You can think differently, that's cool.

Cut out the pathetic "suck it up and stop crying" comments. Grow up. The existing timescales and legal framework did not anticipate a global pandemic and decimation of our economy. We find ourselves where we do and have to act accordingly. I'm not suggesting a rethink on brexit per se, we're going, but it's a question now of revisiting the transition in light of extreme events. We're currently a net exporter to the US. Going forward ask yourself whether they'll want us to import from China, the US or them. We need carefully constructed deals across the board. We do not have any chance to address those this year. We have the choice of hasty deals, no deals and WTO terms, or seeking more time and then using that to sort deals once the current crisis has passed. The choice is overwhelmingly obvious to the sensible thinkers. Re WTO, someone posted above (it may have been you) that the EU and US have no trade deals. That was completely wrong. They have trade agreements on over 100 matters, which is just a little bit different to having none. Nobody sensible could possibly think that trading with the world on WTO terms is a sensible choice.

So what do you suggest? Locking down forever? Carrying on as before and hope for the best? Or something else, if so what? It's easy to make noise, much more difficult to make sense.

Mate, we're going around in circles. I agree with the message in the Times article. Our government have had a shocker. They could and should have acted quicker and more decisively. The warnings were there - ie they were forewarned. Highlighting their foreseeable failings is anything but hindsight. If you think they've done well and had no notice or warning that could (and should) have led to a better outcome then we disagree.

I'll rephrase my point. There's no sensible or credible discussion to be had. That's just my opinion of course, you can have yours.

This is bloody difficult. I've had about 30 Wikipedia tabs open looking at players clubs. I've given up. Great effort anyone who has put a valid team up ?

Indeed. Principled stances don't help our economy.

It's not pedantry. It's completely misleading to suggest that the EU and US trade on WTO terms. They trade on over 100 trade agreements. We have none ready to go with either the US or EU and in the early stages of a global pandemic, we ain't gonna secure any. The only sensible thing is to stay as we are until we're in a position to sort deals out. It's not complicated.

I'll be honest, I switched off part way through your times article dissection but I get the impression that you think you know better. Deluded.

Jeez. So Germany follow advice, trace, test loads, lock down properly, and do it all promptly, but your only explanation as to why they've done a better job than us at not fecking things is up to go into some half cocked conspiracy theory. You're either nuts or an unfunny wind up mate. I'm going back to the gardening.

That's wrong. The EU and Europe trade on scores of trade agreements.

Indeed. It's not even a discussion is it? Just imagine going into 2021 with the financial rebuild from this and WTO terms. Carnage.

Not at all. It was a simple question. I'll assume your answer is no. If that's the case then you fall into the deluded category. To suggest that there were no signs there that could have allowed our government to take a more positive, direct and efficient route is utter madness. Their faffing and indecision has costs all sorts of lives and decimated the economy of unnecessary billions. That's undeniable to normal folk. If you disagree with the above, and maintain that there was no information available to assist with achieving a better outcome for our country, can you please explain how Germany have done so much better. Perhaps they didn't follow what was foreseeable and just got lucky eh?

It was a yes or no question mate....

Do you or do you not accept that the government have got things badly wrong?

Do you or do you not accept that the government have got things badly wrong?

Read the words mate. They are reporting the results of "preliminary" investigations carried out by the Chinese authorities. It's not their findings or opinion. Subsequently they have been very clear what should and should not be done. Germany have listened. They're OK. We've haven't. We're far from OK.

Have a day off being a ***t mate. The WHO who said test and trace etc. The one that said don't fanny around. The one who said learn from Italy etc. You know, the one who said do pretty much everything we haven't done.

Behave. Look at how South Korea and Germany dealt with this. Look at the warnings from the WHO to everyone, and from Italy to others. We lacked foresight, pointing that out is not hindsight.

Wheel

Car