S-Clarke

Absolutley, it goes on. Not denying that, rules are rules though and we were stupid enough to be so blatant about it and daft enough to walk into it and get caught, everyone else is much more savvy about it. On the Boro point, what they did was murky but again - it's the same consequence if you zoom out, they've played a trick to try to gain a sporting advantage. We tried to spy to gain a sporting advantage. Both, to me, are equally wrong - and like you say, it happens everywhere all the time. The PR/Media manipulation stuff does too. As a club we were just not grown up enough to play either game, so I don't know why we even got involved.

Not sure if anyone noticed - David Winnie, he was on the appeal board. Former Boro player. Ok, a stretch, as he hardly played if at all during a tiny spell...but still, the point stands. Was there not anyone they could have found without ANY former boro connection?

It's been the same argument since day one, they don't learn from any mistakes. They're either arrogant and think they're always right, or they're incompetent. Sadly I think it's both.

I don't think it's fair to say it's worse than anything we've done, but certainly equal in terms of trying to seek an unfair sporting advantage through somewhat murky ways. Difficult to prove ways, but still equally murky. I'm fully on board with the Hull should be promoted outright theory, I know their manager didn't want that and they want to go up fair - and fair play to them, I hope they do. But watch the storm if Boro win, because I think it will all start coming out then.

We need adults at all levels. SR either need to sell, or they need to bring in external investment and some new 'adults' to the table who understand how football works. The problem is, I don't even trust them to get that bit right. So, arguably, the best result is that they sell up and go entirely - but that's easier said than done. We need to stop with this 'young and will improve' mantra, because it's rubbish and flawed. Everyone needs experience. Experienced coaches, analysts, scouts, directors, players. Sure, you can have young talent in and around it - of course, but there has to be that balance. We've just gone head first into young and improve, this isn't for footballing purposes - it's for a conveyor belt of talent to fund their group. So, that needs to stop. The culture bit you've put is spot on. This 'we are better', 'the Southampton way' stuff needs to stop. We are not better. We are clearly one of the worst run clubs in the entire country. So, be realistic with the approach to slogans and and be honest with the fans on the expectations, we don't want PR and corporate fluff thrown down our throats any longer. Build a team (directors, coaches, players) from top to bottom with adults, experience and talented young people throughout. You know, just like we had under Koeman, Adkins and Pardew. It's not rocket science, and our continuous desire to reinvent football has ended up breaking us entirely.

''It's not his fault, honest. He's put money into our club. It's just those under him'' Doesn't wash anymore. Hasn't washed for a year or so to be honest. Blokes as much of a buffoon as the rest.

The argument, that I think you're on board with as well, is that our clubs media/PR machine should have been using that angle a lot more heavily in our favour than they did. We let Boro run around saying our interns name, details, pictures without any fight back or counter via our own channels. That's what I find so, so bad about all this.

Also interesting how the following day, all the North East media (sky sports news) were at that EXACT spot filming it, and doing the walk of his route. I mean...come on, it's in plain sight.

It sounds like our first response was ''What, me? No. We're good boys! Don't be silly'' ''Oh yeah, sorry - we did do that. Give us a fine?''

*Boro had already made the ruling A Statement From The Club

They're going after Hull now, as Hull say they will look to appeal if Boro win the final. I say go for it Hull, if you don't win, take Gibson to the cleaners. Give us a call and we'll give you a hand. (the fans that is, not our club)

That's how I see it, I believe they went into that hearing with the approach of 'We have already decided we are expelling you, you now have to prove to us why we shouldnt' - that's basically how I read it. And given our defence, that was that.

Exactly that, I notice we reference the Leeds case in our 'submissions' - but we could have also played that Leeds approach ourselves. Bielsa owned it from the outset, took control of the narrative at the start. Done. Accepted. We let Boro run away with it, we went quiet and by the time we realised they were ripping us apart, we couldn't get up.

Basically, the club have mishandled the offence, mishandled the response and then mishandled the defence. We gave this to Boro on a plate. It really is fairly damming from us in that sense. All of these terrible decisions SR have made over the years are now starting to make some sense, we really don't have a clue. The worst owners in the Country.

I'm coming out of this even more angry at the EFL to be honest, we've been done over like a kipper here - for what? A decent defence could have pushed that, why didn't our intern - who was talking, apparently - claim he was setup? Why wasn't he pushed to present that? It's clear that's what's happened to me, but no one seems to have pushed this angle. But to be 100% clear....what we did isn't right, but equally Boro's tactics here are equally as bad in my view. Neither of us should be in the playoff final.

Let's not forget that Middlesborough explicitly asked for that EXACT sanction on their own website, before it was even announced. A Statement From The Club

Yep absolutley, so angry at everyone for this. I know some people are saying Boro are the innocent party in all of this, but they've played this just how they planned. The 'whistle-blower' has given Boro some goss long before we spied, they have thought ok....try and set him up, see if he bites, then we can get him caught and setup a coordinated media onslaught so we can gain an advantage in the playoffs. We were just too stupid to see it. We shouldn't have been doing it anyway, and I think we've been doing it for a long time, but the way Boro have gone about this is very dirty. For footballs sake, Hull need to win.

Is your name Will? You seem to know a bit about Boro's pitches

He's fucked us here. How he's defended our club is almost as bad as our defending in our last PL season, maybe worse.

Fell into a trap, hook.line.and.sinker.

There are so many holes in this, even a college defence could have pulled this apart. WTF have we been doing?

I'm sorry, but that release is so weak in many ways - from both ourselves, and the EFL. In terms of us, what a bunch of absolute prats we have defending this club. We've been punished because we literally laid down to have our belly tickled. Had we had some balls and front we could have contested this, because there are certainly lots and lots of flimsy elements around Boro's and the EFL's approach here. Our defence was non-existent, it was pathetic. The pile on from the EFL was equally pathetic, not even bothering to consider the Leeds incident doesn't scream fair to me, does it to anyone else? Overall I think this shows us up as an amateur club, but we all knew that didn't we? We've been so, so stupid here. Heads will roll over this, they have to - because we have literally just let Boro tickle our tummy here, from both falling for a trap (I'm sure we were trapped into this) and then having the most weak attempt to defend I've ever seen. I'd also end by saying Boro's games here have been equally deplorable too. An orchestrated effort all around the media to pressure the EFL into pushing for expulsion, to the point they even asked for it on their website. Sadly we had nothing about us to fight back. New leadership needed ASAP.

Not to the blatant level, no. I think it's been really poor form from us. This is seemingly an fully orchestrated and organised systemic spying campaign to try to gain advantage over the course of a season, however minuscule the benefit would actually be. Sure, there may be the odd occasion where you spot something or have a bit of info that you share, and players always do have tit bits they hear, and x or y share things here and there - but reading through everything it's the systemic and seemingly purposely orchestrated approach which has caught everyone a bit by surprise I think.

I wouldn't buy any of that. If he said - 'this is common practice everywhere' , that doesn't mean it's fair game and right to do does it? Guns are legal in America, it doesn't mean I can drive to Lidl with one in my car in the UK.

They believe initially they have a legal case to be automatically promoted, but they're going to play the final to get there fair and square. That's what their own has said when working with their lawyers. If they don't win - expect absolute carnage from Hull, lawsuits directed at the EFL in the first instance I'd say. None of this is fair on Hull, they've had an amazing achievement to get where they are. They don't deserve any of this mess which we have created, but the EFL has amplified. I'm almost certainly a Hull fan on Saturday if there is any justice.