S-Clarke

There's no real past examples of that, there are no spying rules in this context in the PL. We'd almost certainly appeal that and probably win if it was applied to the EPL. IMO The points deduction can only truly apply in the EFL and it must be suspended for if we're caught doing it again, nothing else works. Boro won't like that, which is why a summer of courts ensues.

Worse case finance wise IMO, but if there is a point deduction it will be suspended. Not just for the EFL, but it will be applied in the EFL if we are caught doing it again. That's my best guess. They can't impose a sanction this summer as it would throw things into a bit of turmoil as the league is over, and equally keeping it suspended for when we next compete in the league isn't fair in my eyes. Caught doing it again, absolutely. But keeping that on hold in this context seems odd, given that if we go up we may stay in the PL for a decade. 250-500K for breaching the good faith rule, and then a bigger amount for breaching the new spying rule.

How I see this going - Rule 1 - Not acting in good faith, a fine. Not sure they can go much further above what they issued leeds with, as Leeds were charged based upon that existing rule. Rule 2 - Spying close to the game, new rule put in place. This is where the unknowns are, my best guess is a points deduction or another fine. The points deduction would be suspended in nature. Boro will be unhappy, they'll launch their own appeal via the courts (they can't appeal the EFL), and they'll try to sue us privately outside of EFL - so at that point, it's all about the money Gibson wants in compo rather than enforcing sporting sanctions as they can't do that. There is also a possibility of individual sporting bans, but these aren't decided by the EFL - this would go up to the FA/FIFA and a new disciplinary track, which will take time. So in my eyes the final goes ahead, the date won't change, the opponent won't change, but get ready for a summer of court battles.

Boro think it's all about them, which is why they demanded they also sit around the table. They're a bit clueless on how this all works, it has to be said. We haven't broken Boro rules, we broke EFL rules. They reported it to the EFL, the EFL are the ones who action against it. No idea where Boro have got all this ''we are making the decision'' from - they're not, it's nothing to do with them apart from them reporting it. Independent is the key word. This is why all their ITK's are nonsense too, none of them have got a clue as there is no one Boro close to it.

Given that the ticket sales went ahead on Friday, and I'm currently in a queue for mine, I'd suggest both clubs have been privately told that expulsion isn't on the cards - so just to carry on with this as normal. Otherwise this will be an absolute mess of refunds and lost money. There's no chance we'd both be selling tickets today if we were getting booted out.

This is just like a bad version of the transfer window rumour thread. All those Boro fans claiming ITK, when their cat probably knows more - and why would they know anything when they have no representatives at the hearing anyway? They don't half chat some utter shit.

I think he's talented, and other clubs can see that - I'm not sure Man Utd/Arsenal/PSG would see him as a first choice, more of a squad player at present. He's still a little raw in my eyes, got some refining to do to his game - he's just picked a bad one in WHU for his 'bounce back'. I think he'd be a good shout for someone like Brentford, Bournemouth or Brighton to integrate. I feel sorry for him though as I saw a social media post by him that says he's falling out of love with football.

This is all so frustrating, I just want to look forward to the game. Discuss the team, think about which players are fit, who is back in training etc. This is being allowed to hang over both ourselves and Hull for too long in my eyes - just get on with it already, make the decision. The fans are the ones being punished here. No one knows where they stand, and the speculation is rife because of it. I think it's being totally overblown (by Boro) as this isn't even a regulation in the EPL or FIFA wide per say (just assumed good faith), but I can't lie that I'm frustrated by the club that they chose to partake in this so blatantly in the first place, right before a knock out game, and give everyone the ammunition they now have - because you can't lie, this is an own goal no matter how small of one.

I think the context is somewhat different, as I believe Leeds were caught in December - the game in question when they beat Derby, they were way down the league at that point. It wasn't a decider per-say. They did admit to have been doing it all season though up to that point, to all clubs, so in that context it's certainly worse form than ourselves. But the timing and context of the game makes it look worse for us, because it's more of a 'final' and there aren't another 20 games to makeup the wrong doings etc etc. I don't think what we did impacted the result though, so I think the argument is flimsy at best that it cost them promotion - but they'll almost certainly play that angle.

Nope, just all guess work. Boro fans opinion is that he's a 'nonce' and needs to be banned from football, as they believe he'll be a risk to Children if not cheating. They are a bunch of utter weirdos.

I'd suggest that's probably on the worst-case extreme of what'll happen. I think it'll be a fine, and then Boro will take the EFL and ourselves through the courts to try and get more dosh for them. That's all Gibson wants, he's positioning himself for a legal battle to secure the most compensation - he's trying to grab the PL money without being good enough to get there himself.

It was unsporting and poor form, absolutley with you on that. But in the cold light and day the data collected is no different than what goes on anyway, just less stupid ways. I'm not denying what we did was foolish and makes no sense, because the advantage we'd gain is just not even worth trying for - that's why any punishment should be proportionate to that. We haven't killed anyone, we haven't paid anyone off, we haven't bribed a referee or fielded players we bought illegally to win the game. We've just been a bit dumb and gone about scouting in an unsporting way.

What about all the goalies who write down the pen takers, the potential order and what side they hit? It's literally written on a lot of their water bottles. If that is what constitutes spying and gaining an unfair advantage, then they should sack off lots of GK's and rule lots of finals null and void. Jordan Pickford did that with England in a recent tournament, I guess Boro would have been in full agreement for England to have been eliminated on the spot?

Exactly, I'd say our approach is how you act in these situations. Who knows, there may be other clubs who have brought a case to the table too - but you don't broadcast shit like this unless you want to get an advantage from it, and we all know that's all it's about. They want a free run at the PL and we've stupidly given them an angle to try and get that, albeit a very slim angle it has to be said.

Let's just lay out the two potential cases here. 1) We have been found to have foolishly spied once, that's the only evidence. No other clubs impacted and thus the only punishment in that sense is a fine. They couldn't issue sporting sanctions for a one off event. 2) We have been found to have foolishly done it all season, and there's tons of evidence to back it up. This does in fact bring the game into disrepute in a bigger level, and you then certainly have the power to impose sporting sanctions as the severity and potential advantages you could have gained is much higher. But digging into point 2 a little bit more is where it gets tricky in this timespan. If that were the case, lots of clubs would have legal cases and stacks of evidence against us. Derby and Wrexham would be up in the arms and demanding to go into the playoffs in place of us. We'd obviously appeal, everything would be delayed, no one would know what league they'll be in and the entire competition is a mess and can't start next year. They wouldn't allow that to happen. Personally the chances of 2 are very slim, because like I said we'd have had more about other clubs by now. This seems to be a Middlesbrough solo effort pinned solely on point 1, which they blew out to try and gain an advantage - which they couldn't take. So at this point Sporting Sanctions shouldn't really be in the equation for a one off evidenced event, which has been proven to have had no impact on the result. A fine and a slap on the wrist is the worst case IMO.

He's having a laugh if he gets that sort of compensation from us. When West Ham were found to have illegally registered Tevez and Mascarano back in 07-08 (i think), they stayed up ahead of Sheffield United and Tevez scored the winning goal in the last game which ultimately kept them up iirc. WHU were ordered to settle £20m compensation to Sheffield United. Compare that to a young lad with an IPhone taking pictures from behind a tree. They are totally opposite in extreme levels, so thinking a punishment should be equal is crazy. And by the way, WHU didn't get 'expelled' or docked points for that either.

That 'decide the way we want' angle is a clear posturing towards them laying the groundwork for Legal Action when they don't get the result they want. They're not being very sportsmanlike here, because we beat them over the 2 legs because we were better - and because they couldn't finish their dinner. We gave them more chances to score than we have any team all season, it's not our fault they couldn't put the ball away. They tired, we took control, and they forgot how to defend a cross shot. They are the worst kind of losers.

They've got form for this sort of snivelling though - remember their outcry over Rob Edwards leaving? Rob Edwards, rightly or wrongly, wanted a crack at his former club in the PL (although not for long). They created such an outcry, the Boro fans hate him, the club made a crying statement about it as well iirc.

The fact they thought it was a legitimate ask to be on the panel is just crazy. Do they not understand how this all works? The EFL are always the broker in these situations, same as Fifa, same as the FA, same as the EPL. If a club lodges a complaint with the respective authority, the authority then becomes the broker between the 2 parties. It gathers evidence from both sides, and the alleged will have a chance to fight the allegations. Boro aren't fighting the allegations, we are. Having clubs going to 'war' against each other in these ways would not create the fair and INDEPENDANT nature of this hearing. What planet are these guys living on? What the fuck is all this. This is basically shaping up to be a Steve Gibson sue everyone special, I can smell it a mile away.

It's just fake outrage really. I still find it all quite funny, rather bemusingly funny really, and in a year or two the only left over piece of this charade will be Boro's new 'fake' rivalry with us.

Another interesting angle here is that the EPL don't have this regulation, so this is purely an EFL regulation at this point and not wider global football or FIFA Level sanctions - so it's completely small fry, which is why expulsion and sporting sanctions just don't add up here. It will be a fine, maybe a bigger fine as a suspended fine, and potentially a sacking of a member of staff. Do teams spy on each other in the PL? Maybe, there are probably inside men sharing bits. We've had loads of team sheets being leaked in the media, many examples of that.

Boro went begging to be part of the parties around the table during the 'INDEPENENT' hearing (note Independent). And were then obviously denied. Why they even had the gumption to ask to be included is more evidence to me that they are absolutely desperate. Oh, and tickets are on sale.

That's all they can say though, as the EFL have no idea themselves how this will pan out. Their job is to gather the evidence, present it to the independent panel and then allow them to reach a conclusion that the EFL then applies. So of course the EFL are going to say that, because by regulation any possibility is possible, not that they're likley.

'Disgruntled former employee trying to throw their former employers under the bus' shocker...Happens all the time, tribunals etc, unfair dismissal. I can't see how a former employee providing evidence is strong enough, because you don't know his motivations for doing so and we'd just claim he was a disgruntled employee, and he's fabricating it.

I still remain convinced that all the media rubbish was a build up to try to gain an advantage, both in advance of their home and away legs. Ironically they could have actually gained more of an advantage with that approach than we did with our alleged iPhone behind a tree. So equally, I'd say they've been quite unsportsmanlike too. It's all quietened down a little from their side now I've found, no more leaks about the incredible surveillance equipment or the route he took to change coming into the press. They can't gain a sporting advantage themselves now, so what we are seeing now are the final throws of the official process that Middlesbrough started with the EFL.