S-Clarke

Somewhat agree, but I also believe a lot of the nervousness and instability has been brought on by the inconsistent 11's. We had a period when we were unbeaten where you could name the 11, now it's a guessing game to see where he shoe horns Stephens in and who misses out to accomodate that. I find his role in the side incredibly odd if I'm honest, this kind of floating CB/CM with licence to go left back, right back, CM, CB, Number 10. It feels like nonsense. He's not even a particularly good passer of the ball in my opinion. It's like the madness of inverted full backs taken to a new extreme, there was no need for it - it hasn't added anything else to our game apart from goals against.

Yep, exactly this. Like you say the people who believe he was just involved in Stewart and Charles are daft, anything Wilcox was going to do would be felt over a longer term period. It's daft to say that as we signed an injured striker he's failed. 'If' we fail to go up then the coming summer will be a greater upheaval than the last, we will lose an entire 11. I'd have hoped a DoF in place for the last 12 months would have had plans in place to navigate that, but now we potentially go into this massive summer of change with zero football leadership at the top. Players leaving from all doors and zero football structure in place to support any sort of evolution. It's a recipe for disaster really. Rudderless springs to mind.

If you look back to our form over November, December and into January it was built on the basis of a very, very consistent 11. (notably the back 4) KWP - Bednarek - THB - Manning Downes Smallbone Armstrong Wide players were usually Fraser and S Armstrong with Charly playing in the 10. We didn't have Sulemana, Edozie, Stephens to pick from during December. We were having to fill the squad with Meghoma, Bragg, Dibling, SAA etc - but I think that forced Martin's hand a bit, he couldn't really tinker and the side picked it's self. Our December run of form in particular was really consistent in terms of wins and defensive stability, we conceded just 3 goals in 6 games. Fast forward to today and we have just conceded 13 goals in 6 games, and that's from a chopped and changed back 4. Once Stephens came back he played a couple of games, but was still on the bench for most games in Jan as we continued with that original back 4. We got stacks of clean sheets with that back 4. Come the end of January and into February we have Edozie and Sulemana back, Stephens fully fit, we've gone out and added Rothwell and Brooks to the side. No sign of Dibling, SAA, Bragg, Meghoma anymore. All of a sudden he seemingly has too much choice, from a settled and consistent base the availability and additions of other players have, in my opinion, tempted him to overcomplicate and try to be too clever (i.e. specific players for specific matches, different in-game formations etc etc). I will always stand by the notion that football is a simple game, you help yourself by picking a consistent 11, allow relationships to build and that's what we did during November/December etc - but he got a little too fiddly imo and has tinkered way too much with something that wasn't particularly broken. We got to 2nd on the basis of a consistent 11 (specifically the back 4) but we went away from that and have obviously started conceding goals like no ones business. Individually I don't think Stephens has done particularly bad, but Martin's comment about the team 'needing' Stephens 'at the moment' was crass and probably pissed the guys off who had been doing admirably during the previous weeks.

I go to games and I'm a season ticket holder. Obviously the season has been better because we've been winning as was expected, so automatically that's more enjoyable for sure. It's not been a bad season don't get me wrong, but I do think we have really let ourselves down since mid-feb, up to mid-feb it was great...but the collapse since then has just been shambolic and they deserve pelters for it imo. I sat and watched us lose to Millwall and Hull and I knew after that Millwall game we'd absolutely fucked it. Certainly didn't walk out with a smile on my face then!

I thought we were supposed to start winning all of our remaining games on Friday, so now it starts on Saturday? Fair enough Martin. 98 points will probably not be enough anyway, top 2 are nailed on for 100+ each. They should just give up thinking auto's, it's all well and good having hope, but at this stage it's utter bonkers to believe it.

Not disagreeing with that, but regarding KWP - players have spells where they are not great, but there is no justifiable reason in the entire world that equates to dropping him. There's just none. Even if he's not quite 100% you play him as he's still the best player, it's ridiculous he gave us this year so if we've not used when he was available then it's an utter joke. We're lucky to have players like him available to us, in form or out of form. Next season we will not have any one near his level of ability and then it will show up.

I don't really count him as a player from last season, he didn't play for us last season bar 1 or 2 fleeting moments.

So why didn't he drop Adams who cost us the win?

If KWP was fit and he was dropped then it's bat-shit-crazy, you cannot dress it up any other way. He's our best player, probably the best player in the league. He plays every game if he's 90%, 80% fit or if he's playing on 1 leg - he plays every game if he's available, simple as that really. We're not good enough or strong enough to be playing rotation games with KWP. It's comical if that's what's happened. Bree was pretty shit fwiw.

Leeds didn't play well tonight, but they just have it about them to stick in and get the job done by whatever means. Whereas we played well tonight, had the lead, but still lost the game. That's why they will win the league and we'll end it stranded in 4th.

Not going to worry about that until we know we are here next year, we probably will be...but let's wait and see after the playoffs.

I don't think we can play on that one anymore. Since last season this is an entirely different club with new players everywhere. new GK, new CB's, new LB's, new RB played today. New CM's. New wide players. All new mentality right there, 80% of the team. Adams, Armstrongs, Bednarek they only remainders of the 'years and years of shit' you'd have to say. I don't think you can put it on 'scar tissue' or mental bollocks anymore, it's down to individual mistakes but also tactical approach and how we play. The counter argument to what you say is why have Leeds and Leicester not suffered the same fate? They couldn't defend for toffee last year, Leeds particularly leaked goals everywhere. They've got a pretty mean defence this season.

THB, Bree, Manning weren't with us last year. Neither was Holgate when he played. Stephens, Badnarek and KWP i'll give you, but not the others.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say we don't score enough, we've got 76 goals this season (more than Leeds and Leicester). That would be enough if we kept the door a little bit tighter at the other end. I think the amount of goals we score is in some ways an advocate of the style, but the goals we let in at the other end kind of cancel that out - so we have to find a bit more balance somewhere. I wouldn't focus on our 'lack of goals' being an issue at all, we score stacks. Scoring 2 away from home should be enough, scoring 4 at home should be enough. We shouldn't have had to score 5 away at Birmingham etc etc...so for me the prob is clear, it's the goals we let in at the other end.

It could have only been fitness, surely. Wouldn't make any sense otherwise.

That's the thing - it's all nearly goals which make you think ''hmm, could he have done better?'' ''should he have saved that?'' - there's more of those ''hmm'' moments than ''What a save!'' moments that's for sure. If he'd have got to at least one of those goals tonight it would have been a ''what a save moment'', which is kind of what you need your GK to pull out every now and then - but he doesn't seem capable.

What's any of that got to do with Willcox out of interest?

It's a strange one because individually he doesn't play badly, but I do agree that he has unsettled a structure since he's come back. We did see the benefits in transition effect with Stephens role today, but ultimately we did let in 3 goals (again) so questions have to be asked. We do concede a lot of goals when he's on the pitch.

I appreciate that's the chain we're in, but he's only just got the job and you'd think we'd have sounded him out a bit more before giving him the brief of how to develop us over the next 5 years. I'm very sceptical of SR's decisions because none of them have gone right yet, and they've been in charge for quite some time now.

The thing with Bazunu is if we're talking about metrics and the passing of the ball etc, he's right up there. One of the best. But if we're talking about shot stopping metrics, which he really should be judged on before anything else, he's at the bottom of the list by a distance.

Just to put our collapse into some context, this was the table just 9 games ago after we'd beaten Huddersfield 5-3, all on equal games. 9 games later...(or 6 in the context of our games in hand) That's as big a fuck up as Leicester in my opinion. It was in our hands, we had all the momentum and once we got there you thought we'd grab it just like Leeds have done. The GD is the most telling thing, look at how Leeds and Ipswich have charged on and we've meekly surrendered.

They were both similar goals, low shots which trickled in - no massive pace on them, should have been blocked - but even if they weren't, I'd have expected a GK to have got a touch on them.

Shocking that. I do think Brooks has massively unsettled us as an addition. We've got so much worse since we've had him in the side, which is weird to say as he's a PL player. Only Southampton could have done that to Brooks, we have a knack of it.

We played well, I think most people will say that - but we lost, at the end of the day I couldn't give a shit about how well we played...we lost, again. Since February it's not been good enough and we threw our chance in the bin. Nothing to be proud of right now, I just hope we regain some momentum for the playoffs as it all feels a bit stop-start at the moment.

But even in that Swansea away game, in which the first half was stupidly dominant, we still let them back in and in the 2nd half hung on a little bit.