S-Clarke

Sunderland struggling to get to grips with this, as it stands I can't see past Luton.

Yeah I agree, I'd be much more comfortable with someone like Koeman (not saying Koeman, just with that sort of gravitas). We had a lot of change in the team in 2014 and he handled it and was strong enough to manage it, that's what we need this year I think.

To be fair to Pilchards he told us of our interest in Jones way back in Summer 2022, so he was clearly on the list long before November. (they actually had time to deliberate over that, and still came to the conclusion he was the right fit to replace Ralph)

I always found that the weirdest comment ever, did he think he was joining Liverpool or something?

I still think he's onto a good thing at Boro, even if they don't go up. (Plus he's close to home). I'd expect him to be on our list, but I'd personally be happier with a Viera type.

Did he? Source?

Looking at next season I'm not sure who is the better shout to be coming down with us, being totally selfish you want the weaker ones. Leicester, financially, look to be in dire straights sadly - they're in a position where their big sales (Maddison/Tiliemans) will be either free or cut price as they've let their contracts run down, so I'm not sure where they generate funds - as they couldn't even sign anyone last summer if you remember, and that was after they sold Fofana for £60m - so they could be in trouble. Leeds may be able to sort themselves out, they've got the backing of their American Owners which kicks in properly in the summer.

My fear with Martin is his lack of experience, I don't doubt that he may well become a good manager but I think the timing is a bit off for us to be considering him. As mentioned in other threads we need someone proven and with suitable gravitas to handle the big changes in personal and structure that are going to happen, this will be a chaotic summer - and throwing an inexperienced manager into that will only end one way imo.

Does that mean we need a front footed and aggressive manager? In all seriousness the way Brighton play wouldn't work with us because of JWP in the two, he's too one paced and not dynamic enough to create those quick transitions. Lavia can certainly do it, but we'd need someone else in the mould of a MacAlistar or a Cacedio to partner Lavia if we wanted to try it. The other benifit going for Brighton is that they have options to feed to, either Mitoma on one side or Marsh on the other side - and then Gross picking up those little pockets of space in front of the midfield. If we had another partner for Lavia then JWP could do that Gross role I'm sure. I can imagine our CB's could play that way, and ditto Lavia, but it stops there - we don't have anything else which is why we go backwards all the time. That needs to change in the summer if we are to adopt a new style.

I don't see Everton going, they'll sneak out of this - they do every year, then they'll have a pitch invasion celebrating it, bomb next year, change the manager and rinse repeat. It'll be Leeds following us and Leicester I think.

Leicester look as doomed as us, it has to be said. I think most fans accept being beaten by quality, but it's the lack of effort and closing down which is killing Leicester here and it's what has killed us for a lot of the season. The way their confidence left them as soon as they lost a single goal was so relatable though. I do think they'll be joining us.

I'm surprised Piroe isn't spoken about in the same chat as a Goykores or Akpom etc. Proven goal scorer since they got him.

Yeah, came out a few weeks ago. He's settled here after uprooting in January and isn't looking to move this summer.

Have a word with Stoke fans on Rowett, if you thought they hated Jones then Rowett is on another level for them. We'd be creating one hell of a pantomime for Stoke if we followed up Jones with Rowett.

Or fondly remembered as ''The Gaston Ramirez game''. But we never saw him again.

The last 11 years have been fun haven't they? At least we can look back on a good chunk of it with good memories, not like Palace for example who have just lumbered around the bottom half for almost a decade. European run, twice, Inter at home, seeing some great players and great managers. It's all gone sour in the last 5 years, but if you told me back in 2008 that we'd be beating Inter Milan at home in Europe by 2016 I'd have called for a shrink. Shows how quickly football can change and why good times are never too far away, no matter how bleak it looks today.

My concern with Martin is that Swansea fans wanted him out less than 6 months ago, they weren't convinced a single bit. They had a little run at the end of this season which has given him a bit of leeway, but I think it's fair to say they're not really convinced by him. And importantly for me he doesn't exactly have the experience at the top level to handle what we're going to go through this summer. Please don't try to be clever Southampton. Getting a young manager is all about timing, the timing for us is all wrong at the moment.

Someone needs to investigate Shields if this is true tbh.

I've been an advocate of Viera, and I do think he was harshly treated at Palace. As someone else pointed out, they had to reset their entire team when he first came in. Wholesale change throughout the spine and they were many picks to get relegated, but he steadied the ship and built a decent side. This season they were ok, never really in danger, but they had a bunch of tough fixtures back to back and he took the kick because of that. I would have expected him to have also kept Palace up with the fixtures Woy came into. He's big enough and strong enough to handle change, and that's the key thing for me. There will have to be wholesale change this summer and we need a character and a personality who is capable of dealing with that.

I think that was one of Ralf Kruger's 5 pledges. They found it down the back of the desk.

Alex McCarthy - 9 Baz - 9 KWP - 6 - His effort has been a little down this year, some games it looks like he's going through the motions. AMN - 1 - Gives the impression that he'd rather be anywhere else than a football pitch. Lyanco - 9 - You certainly cannot fault this guys commitment. DCC - 4 - Not sure he's been great, I think he's been causing a few ripples behind the scenes as well. Arribo -100 - Shocking attitude, it's like he expects his ability to do all the work for him and he doesn't really want to lift a finger. Might get you buy in the SPL, but it won't in any proper leagues. JWP - 9 - One thing you can't fault is his effort and commitment, pretty much an ever present for years. Never misses a game. Always one of the highest runners in any game we play. AA - 1 - I don't think he wants to be here, plays like he doesn't give a shit. Che - 8 - The guy always puts in a shift, one of the few I'd be happy to stay. Orsic - n/a - not sure how you can rate him, not seen him. Tall Paul - n/a - not sure he's really done enough to be rated yet either. James Bree -n/a - can't rate him, just hasn't played. Romain Peraud - 9 - One of the best things about this guy is his effort, a niggly little bastard. Stu - 6 - As per KWP, dropped from previous seasons. Doesn't have the same energy to get around the pitch. Mara - n/a - A young kid, harsh to judge. Plays like he doesn't 'get it' yet, too early to give up. Moussa - 7 - Can't fault the guys effort. Sulemana - n/a - not seen enough of him really. Sillysue - 4 - His commitment has always been a bit iffy to me, seems to be more focused on his next move than playing for us. Edozie - n/a - young kid, can't really mark him. Similar as mara really. Elyounoussi - 5 - He tries, can't really deny that. Charly - 9 - Love the guys attitude, commitment and effort. Always buzzing around, a real nightmare to mark. Diallo - 5 - I don't think you can say he doesn't put in an effort, he's just not good enough. Theo- 7 - Puts in the shift within the limited parameters he can perform in. He shouldn't really be playing top level football, but it's not his fault he's being picked. Still does his best. Janny B - 0 - This guy is the worst for me. I cannot just take notice of the last 6 months and ignore what went on previous. ''Happy to move to a bigger club'' in the summer, and then, as Ralph put it, he was more focused on Poland last season than the club who pays his wages. Get rid. Ketchup - 5 - Not amazing commitment shown yet, but he's young. Got a lot to learn. He seems a bit of a bailer though. Lavia - 10 - Cannot question this guy, works his arse off. He has the attitude to back up the ability. He will go to the top, notwithstanding a major injury.

And in the process of doing so have probably ruined what could have been a decent career for Gavin. It'll take a lot for him to come back from this season, be interesting if the club stick or discard him.

The experienced signings have been poor, but if you look at our scouting setup (and equally when Shields was with us), their expertise was youth...so you'd kind of expect them to have better results from young players rather than 'pro's'. We need more balance in the recruitment department, as like you say it's all well and good looking to the future but we also need to think about 'now' - and we didn't, hence why we were relegated. Aribo, DCC, Bree, Orsic, Onuachu. AMN. But that's not just exclusive to this year either, look at last summer - Theo, Lyanco, Armstrong. The season before that...Diallo, Minamino etc. All the proven players we sign are either incapable of playing in this league or washed up. This goes back quite some time, so I'm in support of what SR are trying to do in terms of ripping up our scouting dept - it hasn't been right for years and needs a reset.

It's true and definitely the other part of the argument which needs to be heard. It's easy to call out the scouting as being 'crap' for every single instance, but it hasn't. They've picked up ABK, Lavia, Alcaraz - and I've always felt it's too soon to judge Mara, Edozie, Larios etc. Using an example of recruitment in the u18's, we scouted and picked up Sam Amo-Ameyaw who has the potential to be a bit of a player. It's not all as bad as has been made out, for an Orsic there is an Alcaraz.

Not as good as Che's statement, this one feels much more PR/generic.