david in sweden

great memories....except it was January 1960 btw.Derry, although I also suffered through the Villa Park SF April 1963

didn't have a paper round, and lived close enough to The Dell to walk there before kick-off, but remember most of the rest on the OP. First game (that I recall seeing) was FA Cup game v . Blackpool January 1959......lost 2-1 in last 5 minutes... (ah well - what'd you expect?) ....which one was Stanley Matthews, Dad?.....

...you have to compare like with like.....MLT was an attacking midfielder who scored more than most of the strikers he played with, Davis is rarely seen up front with attackers, and his goal record was not the reason he was bought, he DAJFU in midfield. JWP is still young, and the chances he's missed point to unlucky rather than a lack of skill.

....and lots of us have noticed that as well....good at ball-winning (sometimes ), but his subsequent passing is often diabolical .......

We may well pick up...... some more points ... maybe one at a time..... ...but if the question were ...." Where is the next win coming from ? " ......on the strength of the last three performances ....and the injury list ...and the key players out of form....we may have to wait to see next season's fixture list before answering that one. Looking at the remaining fixtures..... I'm not at all convinced that there is a b*g certain three points from any of the games..

maybe ....we might get a point......if we're lucky enough to have " the wind blowing in the right direction ", .....but anything less than a convincing win won't disguise the fact that the last three games have cost us a Euro place next season, and maybe? .... a manager who will have to content himself with another season of mediocre, mid-table football .....until his contract runs out in 2017

I think the days of " Reserve teams " are gone - if not forgotten. Gordon Strachan raised a few eyebrows when he said (2003) that Reserve sides would disappear within 10 years, and as it happened - it was a lot sooner than that . At a time when we see teenagers regularly playing in Prem.sides, it has to be seen as progress. In any case U21 sides are allowed three (?) overage players , and are often used as way of helping injured players back to match fitness / giving bench players a bit of game time.. Gazzaniga plays alternate games with Lewis for U21's but Forsyth, Clasie, Martina, Targett, Juanmi and Bertrand have all had game time with that squad this season. If not a natural first choice, we need players like them on the bench, but...the idea of having them as "permanent reserves" is not a good one for them or the club. As this thread is about Juanmi.....it's clear that he's nowhere near Prem. standard, but what did we expect of him in the first place? I'm not sure? His first team playing record so far is.. just two League Cup starts (and subbed in one of those).. and 17 assorted sub. apps totalling approx. 300(?) minutes. No goals. Perhaps if he'd scored one, people would be a little more patient with him. Cuco Martina silenced a few of his critics who condemned him, with (that goal) in the Arsenal game.. and that after a very few outings. It's been mentioned before that Juanmi isn't capable of matching himself against the " stronger Prem. defenders " (that's being polite) but it's patently obvious. Clasie has a very similar build, but has clearly learned " to take care of himself in scuffles " in the harder arena of Dutch football. Juanmi hasn't...yet. I'm all for giving Juanmi a chance - if only for the not inconsiderable fee we paid - but every time I've seen him he looks like that rabbit caught in the headlights

It really is a fallacy to condemn "shorter" strikers - isn't it? looking at great names in our history...Charlie Wayman was just 5'8" (as was Marian Pahars). Terry Paine was 5'7" and (my 60's hero) George O'Brien was 5'6". True - they perform better when playing with a bigger striker, or a good winger, but then again Messi isn't the tallest in the Barca side - is he? (However, I don't think we should mention Juanmi's name too much on the same thread as the above).

AGREED.

...even if he were 100% fit (which Koeman denies) he looks really lack-lustre and his confidence must be at an all-time low after his long goal drought.......

Anyone disappointed at the form of the first team this season ought not to look too critically at the two Saints Youth sides either. All 3 squads have all had their own injury problems that might look disasterous when seen out of context - on paper. The sight of striker U18 captain Olufela Olumola on the bench for the Sunderland game shows how big a toll injuries have made this season. First team. As if the prolonged absences of Forster, Rodrigues and Gardos weren't bad enough, it was 11 Cup / League games before we saw Ryan Bertrand back in the defence. Shane Long was out for 5 games early season, and then Pelle's 5 game absence seemed longer as RK admitted his knee injury wasn't 100% even when he was back. Long has taken a real battering from opposition defenders this season, and his latest injury was probably predictable - all things considered. The euphoria of Charie Austin's signing has subsided and we'll have to wait another month till he's back in training..if indeed he plays a full 90 minutes again this season. Mane seems only a shadow of his former self since returning from his suspension, and enough had been written about Wanyama's season already. U21 side had some of the best talent is out on loan; Turnbull at Swindon and Isgrove at Sheff.Wednesday, whilst Stephens and Gallagher had fruitless loan spells although the promising Jason McCarthy is having a better time at Wycombe. Last season's 20+ goal hero Ryan Seager missed the first few games but made up for lost time with 7 goals in 8 games upon his return. His well-deserved loan to Crewe ended in tragedy with an knee injury that will keep him out for the rest of the year. The promising Sam McQueen is fareing better at Southend, but doesn't get regular starts, and Gallagher's unhappy season continues with no goals in the last 7 games. The U21's came under pressure with serious injuries to defenders and Bevis Mugabi and Will Wood early season and to make the situation worse, striker Marcus Barnes is also out for the season. So far ..the U21's have been forced to give game time to 10 U18 scholars, with some fairly predicatable defeats following. This meant an immediate "promotion" for U18 newcomers like, CB Alfie Jones, who has adapted well in his new role - even at the higher level. Another bright spot has been the emergence of 15 year old LB Jake Vokins. In an emergency, he played an unblemished 6 games for the U18's in December and was rewarded with a place on the bench to watch the game v. Tottenhams U21's at St.Marys' 4 weeks ago - only to find himself thrust into the action when regular LB Josh Debayo was injured after only 5 minutes play. Jake was not overawed - even against players 5 years older, and has held his place well in the following 3 games. U18. Needless to say, these occurances have brought pressure on the youngest group, who regularly play 16 year olds - some of whom are not even official Academy scholars, but still get game time. This squad has had its own share of injuries and absences (due to U21 casualties mentioned above) but still has prospects like; midfielders Callum Slattery, Harley Willard and Thomas O'Connor and defenders Richard Bakary and Ben Rowthorn improving all the time. New keeper Harry Lewis signed last Autumn has also played for U21's - as have CB Cook and Olomola (above). The lack of consistancy and regular line-ups has proven a real challenge to the two youth squads who have both used around 30 players - so far this season. There's a danger of this season's recent revival petering out to a mid-table flop, although many of us can recall former times when a top-half finish would have been considered a real success. Perhaps NEXT season will see these players fit for the fight, and getting some better results. Meanwhile it's just to grin and bear it.

Skill?...maybe ...but like Gaston...(who I didn't dislike)....Juanmi will need to adjust to the "physical side" of English football, if he's to make a Prem. career.

A lot of the criticism about JWP on previous threads, takes little account of the overall circumstances. Firstly, despite 100 games he is still young, and still has quite a bit to learn. Consequently, he has good games, and others where he's not in the action at all. Some of his best performances have been in games that we have lost, but through no fault of his. Although there are fans screaming for more Academy lads to be given chances, few of us could say that he is much better than the first-choice players we have now. YET..those same people forget that even big-money signings who have come in ....have needed a good run of games to find their a role in the team. Think back; Pelle and Mane..and now Cedric, Clasie and Romeu didn't fit in like the missing piece of jig saw directly...it took time to adjust. Juanmi may never do so. But they are all experienced players with a track record...not the teenage talent that we say we want to nurture, but who only get games here and there. We cannot compare the previous Academy names that moved onto "bigger clubs " either as the circumstances are different with each of them. Walcott and Bale were exciting talents who showed up well in declining sides (prior to relegation) and we were still slowly on the up when Alex O-C got all the attention. When Nigel Adkins (not Pochettino btw) started playing Luke Shaw regularly - every fan agreed that choosing him ahead of Danny Fox, was a no-brainer. Ward-Prowse has been thrown into the side to play, in several different roles, often in injury crises or as sub.and been criticised for "indifferent performances" whereas players carefully scouted for specific roles in the side (via Black Box etc )...already sure of what they need to do when they arrive at the club, still take time to adjust. Even his critics have to admit that JWP's dead ball abilities are excellent, and only his lack of goals seems to be the main criticism, yet he's not afraid to take spot kicks. Much has been said about JWP's admiration of Beckham's talent, and on occasions he's shown that he's learned those skills too, but it should be remembered that even Beckham (at the same age) was nowhere near the level that he later achieved. NOTE; Beckham played 6 seasons before getting 100 games and his career was helped in a superior Man Utd side that won silverware every season, sometimes more. IMHO ...only when the likes of Steven Davis move on /retire will JWP get his real chance, but like Davis he will get mixed reviews from fans - even in the same match.

Andrew Surman was a popular young player (youngest Reserve team debut - prior to Walcott) and had played almost 150 games for Saints first team before he left, and some people tend to forget that he was sold " against his will " at a time (pre Liebherr takeover) when Saints were scraping around to pay the salaries every month. I'm sure he was sorry to go, and I'm many fans felt the same. Although it took time for him to "find himself " in the right team, he has rightly got credit now. However, we also forget that he is heading towards 30 now, and the idea of getting him back sounds nicer than the reality might be. He's clocked up over 300 League games and I'm sure that "sentiment" has little meaning for Koeman, as he'd be looking for someone 6-8 years younger for the future.

Reed got a few games because of injuries to the regulars, but last season there was no way he was going to get ahead of Alderweireld or Wanyama. I'm not going to say that his lack of height is a problem, I've seen lots of players of short stature over the years who were great.. ....but Koeman and Pochettino never consulted me about team selection......and t.b.f. Romeu is proving his worth now. Hesketh was a player who got a well-deserved chance last season in the away game at Burnley, but got yellow-carded and was first to be subbed. Once again proving that the gap between U21 and Prem. can be quite a jump for some players. Jake H. is still young and improving all the time. Quite a few youth players at both U18 and U21 have had serious injury problems this season, and the best prospects for the first team bench, are already out on loan. A good way to get real game time, but until they can cut their teeth on real football matches,even at L1/L2 level so they're not likely to feature this season. It's wrong to expect the Academy to function like a conveyor belt - some players make it to a good level, but many of those who played alongside Walcott and Bale 10 years ago in the U18sides have been lost in the mists of times and their names occasionally pop up in the National League or even lower levels.

VVd or Long ..but for an (outsider)....maybe Clasie... if he continues to improve in remaining games......

....what a great idea...(not that we haven't heard it all before )..so let all the "Big clubs " *u** off and play each other 4 times a season....for fun. At least that's the revived plan for MU, Citeh, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool according to reports today. Each Euro country would throw in their best 3-4 clubs (at least those who could afford to do it).....PSG, Bayern Munich; Juventus, Barca and Real Madrid maybe. As the Premier League has been the sole possession of only half a dozen clubs since its incepetion (1992) neither Saints...or a dozen other Prem. clubs need worry about ever winning that title, and perhaps we could get on with playing domestic English football at Prem level....and maybe things would be a bit more balanced. You may not like the idea, but I think it would be a good incentive for dozens of clubs to be able to let " all the big boys " go off and play in their own mud puddle. Goodness knows how much seat prices would be for those Super Euro matches ?

There's an interesting page on Wikipedia called ...a list of sporting rivalries..with some alternative suggestions.

judging from the " rough and tumble " in last night's game..it will surely be considered a "derby game " in the future......

but then again, given time ...Victor is still young enough to be able equal their disciplinary records......

I think some of it started with the OP on this thread, Whitey.......go back and take a look. CAUTION: Everything they said has been written down and will surely be used against them ...forever more.

a bit naughty ...but extremely funny

who else would you have played?. Charlie has looked a lot more positive (than Pelle) since he's arrived, and Mané seems to get worse rather than better. Now on Saturday, we'll probably start with both Pelle and Mane....because Shane Long didn't look so bright either when he came off.

it's bit worse than that Charlie. Won WBA game (3-0) with 9-9 in shots, since when, in the following 7 games - we had 61 shots v. 93 from opponents and yet were undefeated in 5 of those. (till Chelsea) in the last 15 League / Cup games - we've won 6 yet only had the majority of possession in one of those games. in the same period - we lost 7 games, yet had majority of possession in 5 of those + (1@50/50), and still lost. Conclusion: possession isn't everything. At Arsenal we had only 33% yet drew 0-0 with 14 shots against their 21. At Man U won 1-0 with only 44% possession) The defence has been more or less unchanged, but both Shane Long and Clasie played in 5 of those 6 wins. No other midfielder played that consistantly when we won ..... except (wait for it)... Victor Wanyama .. played in 5 of those 6 wins (we'd already won the WHam game through Yoshida's goal - when he was red-carded) since when only Shane Long's goal at Swansea - (not a convincing win) has given us any points at all....and now we've had 2 defeats on the trot. The most disturbing aspect is that (according to RK)...the 3-5-2 formation, though moderately successful doesn't suit Tadic's style of play, and both Pelle and Mane last scored in 2015 ..whilst Santa Claus was still on his Autumn Spanish holiday....... Shane Long has been the most successful player in terms of points winning, but his role, though fruitful, continues to stress his body and injuries occur more often. We have a glut of midfield players (when not injured, or suspended (Victor:blush:), yet the balance is still not right, and it's clear that the type of opposition is the key factor in choosing WHO to play, rather than having an unchanged formation...... although t.b.f. no midfielder will expect to play over 30 games/season because of this fact. In the past, we've (occasionally) had midfielders who get 2 - 4 goals a season, and strikers who score every 4 - 6 games - at present Shane Long is the only one scoring at all. Tadic has DAJFU when coming on as " super-sub ", but really should be capable of adapting his game in the " new " formation .

.......and yet he's willing to pick Pelle to play CF for the Italian national side ...? Not saying he will sign for Chelsea, but you can be sure any new manager (anywhere) will want to bring in players of his choice) and ...as many people seem to think GP will go to Italy after the summer....the idea of playing for Conte at Chelsea (if indeed he gets the job) may not be so silly.