david in sweden

well ....reading back through this thread ....that's at least 5 of us who agree on that point. Shane Long is not a striker in the accepted sense of the word, and it's unfair to compare him to others who are. He got landed with the task because he was the only fit player in the club who could fill the role, at a time when we had major injury problems and loss of form by others. Apart from one good season several years ago (at a lower level), he has seldom got to the 10 goal mark, but having said that ...a great many people seem to agree that he is doing AJFU in the way that few others have ever done. He is an absolute torment to opposing defenders, and I'm surprised that a few more of them haven't been red-carded this season for the treatment they hand out to him. The fact that he cost, what he cost.. two years ago may seem a bit excessive to some, but now that he has come into form, he's well worth the original investment.

.especially as Dyer didn't "defect " in the accepted sense of the word. The club was in the hands of the accountants at that time (summer 2009) and they were selling off / cutting back ...wherever they could. Dyer, McGoldrick and Surman were all " moved out " that summer, in order for the club to have the wherewithal to pay the staff / players during the close season. the great injustice..... lay in the fact that the bankrupted Saints were prey to other clubs who paid only a fraction of their real worth in the transfer market. Was pleased for both Dyer and Surman that they did get some fame / recognition in later years, but by rights they should have stayed at SMS.

Seems to get regular starts and do well ..at Barnsley. .. which if not geographically ...then quality-wise... is light years away from the required Prem. standard. Those rare games I've seen him in ..at least you see he's on the pitch, but the real question for Lloyd, and players like Turnbull (second season at Swindon) is .... .....Do I want to go back to SMS, and hope to get an occasional place on the bench?...or get regular football at a lower level ....and hope to become " a late developer ". IF ....he were still at SMS..and we had another major injury crisis, he'd get a chance to show his form...otherwise Barnsley may become his next permanent address. If he isn't OOC in the summer (?)......then he could go for a modest sum and (hopefully) a juicy sell-on fee - in case he does come good in the future.

Nice to get people's ideas/thoughts, but the main issue has to be ....who will stay /go? What if ....Mane, Pelle and Wanyama were to stay? ....who would we sign then? ....Who would we need to sign ? Age has a bearing on this . I have always been an admirer of Steven Davis, but 30 is a dangerous age in the Prem, and at 32.. Jose Fonte will have to be exceptionally good to hold onto his place. The return of Florin Gardos will give an indication here ...Of course, he never got a look in with Fonte and Alderweireld in their last seasons' form, but like Yoshida ..a lack or regular game time doesn't give anyone a chance to shine...if indeed he is the real thing. If he can make the grade.?...he may eventually be Fonte's deputy at CB. Here all the "ifs " come into play. Any player (in any position) who gets a " Jay Rod / Forster " type injury lay-off would make a big dent in a stable squad. Those people who express their disatisfaction with both Cedric and Martina at RB - even though it's only their first season - forget that Clyne had a few nightmare games in his first season, and they haven't been that bad, and tbf ...being a good wing-back AND a top class defender is a rare combination nowadays. The midfield ..even without Davis ..needs more soliditity. JWP and Clasie look a likely pairing, but we need a " Jimmy Case / Alan Ball " type to make it really tick. If the (present) four strikers are still here - and on form - come August - we'd have a tremendous strike force. If one - or more goes..they'll be a new face. (den Bost?) ...at the end of the day (sorry - the season) it'll be down to Ronald, Les and " the Black Box ", and what we think ....will have little bearing on future signings.

I remember the Les Reed interview about how /when /why we signed RK. A lot to do with football philosophy and playing formation, as much as ambition. Signing the "wrong" manager would mean a lot of players would end up on the bench when "the new broom" brings in his own former favourites. Just read an item about Liverpool's...(wait for it) ... 17th hamstring victim.... since Klopp's arrival. All his high-tempo training has brought it's long list of casualties. Pochettino has had a year to train-up his Spurs squad, but even he had a lot of casualties last season. But both teams have enormous squads and can survive changes. Saints' squad starts to look better all the time ..(although not every game gets the right results), but injuries and lack of form tend to dent the picture. The thought of any manager having; Long, Jay Rod, Austin and Pelle (if he stays)..is a mouth-watering prospect for next season. RK also has a Plan B (something many managers lack) as when converting to 3-5-2 players like Matt Targett get a chance as he was never going to replace Bertrand at LB. Rigidity, or lack of imagination in playing style can ruin teams ..and players. LvG is a perfect example, and like Chelsea proves that money can't always buy a title. Clubs employing a " top manager " need the wherewithal to give him £100 million start-up to buy in players, and another £40-50 million a season to maintain the team. All these factors have to be considered if / when choosing replacements (player or manager). There's no doubt the best solution would be for Ronald to stay on, but if we finish next season without some measure of success,(Top 4,5,6 (?) ...or a Cup)....then he might seriously look to pastures new. Getting a new manager...is a bigger gamble than signing " even more " expensive players to " paper over the cracks."

....I'll take the second part.....

Agree totally. Wouldn't argue a word of that . At a time when we were without recognised strikers (through various reasons) HDAJFU ..

a common sense idea Whitey, but that's where the big TV income originates.... but did you read that the new FIFA boss wants 40 teams to be in final stages of future World Cups?.... I mean why not have all 208 countries in the competition ?....oops they do that already - don't they?

....why not? ....the fans should get their money's worth ....

or maybe there should be a Springtime competition ....... .....for all those teams who don't make it through the qualifying /group stages of Euro competitions and teams who go out of the FA Cup in Round 3 and 4 and every team with an A,E, I O or U in their name ....and all teams who have at least one team shirt in Red or Black..with ties played on a two leg basis + extra time and penalties. :lol:

......judging by the shots to goal %'s , I would have thought any shot that was anywhere near the goal shows some degree of skill.....luck always comes into it.

if - as anticipated the red card is recinded, then you have to ask yourself....if everyone who watched the replay saw what really happened... .......then why isn't a 4th official..or a 5th if you like......watching the TV replay ....as millions of others were? I can hear the objections now, but the truth is that if the "incident " had been in the 19th minute.... and not the 90th, the game might have finished very differently.

Obviously - you're not a cricket fan, Lighthouse ....

.....if only. You seldom see comments from referees, and yet they are defended to the hilt by the footballing powers-at-be...with any amount of lame excuses. When there are three of them in charge of a match, you'd think they'd get the important decisions correct .... or just sit and watch the replays on TV ..as we do.

In bygone years, many of us look to the media to keep us informed of ....the news......in many issues. Of course politics and lobbying can " shape" the news output to some extent, but somewhere the truth is there ......between the lines.. ..so consider the comment today from Graziano Pelle...who said ..he likes it at Saints. He has no intention of seeking a move, (back to Italy)...and looks forward to staying at SMS. All those stories of a summer move (he says)....are just media invention..... and we all thought he was on the way out after the Euros. The Media today is ..in general. .an absolute disgrace and many " so-called journalists / football experts " are no more than crystal-gazing and spreading lies. It seems that some of them only live by the maxim that it is OK to print.... " lies, and dam* lies " .....as long as it gets " a headline " In any other branch of business, they could be sued and pay damages to the " injured parties " they abuse in print. It also seems that a % of the fan base have lost faith in Pelle, (who has also had injury problems to contend with) and started to condemn him and see him departing in the summer. Graziano, (like Koeman) has another year left on their contracts and the thought that either of them might leave in the summer..will continue to make headlines - even if there isn't a iota of truth in either story ... What was the old phrase? - PUBLISH AND BE DAM*ED .....(I wish some of them would!)

He's clearly only bench-warming this season ATM... ...with Long and Pelle up front, Jay Rod nearing return and Charlie Austin putting in a few minutes by the end of the season, Juanmi should play out the season in the U21's not as a punishment, but an opportunity to show what he can do. If he can't cut it at that lower level.....then we have a real problem on our hands.

to be fair.. it's one thing to say he hadn't scored since...November..when he was showing poor form through injury, and then was out and wasn't even fit enough to sit on the bench for the following 5 games. Coming back in January....he had a few sub. apps and a handful of starts before yesterday.....let's hope he does get back to his best, but IMO he is definitely a " confidence player" and needs goals to boost him. His poor mid season form last year, also masked the fact that he hit the woodwork eight times ..aside from good goalie saves... ......a bit more luck and the record books would look decidely better in his favour.

of course, the OP had a point ....to some degree at least. Strikers want to score every game (said Ronald Koeman) and the fans want to see them score regularly at least... (but the Jamie Vardy phenomena is very rare). Older heads will also recall some other goal droughts in Saints history. I recall local boy Martin Chivers who had already netted 50 times whilst still in his teens, and in the promotion season 1965-66 carried on with his goal spree, which included 4 in the legendary 9-3 blitz of Wolves at the Dell in Sept.65. and between Nov65 and February66.. he scored 18 times in 11 League games...and by the end of Feb had scored 30 goals....only failing to score in his last 10 games. Had he continued in the same scoring form he would surely have broken a few club records. Life was harder in Div 1 (read Prem. )after a slow start, he went 15 games without scoring, whilst fellow strikerRon Davies netted 37 times in the League alone. Chivers successor -Mick Channon still holds the club'äs goal record, but frequently went 6-8 games without scoring. Back up in top level after relegation, goalscoring pair MacDougall and Boyer gave us goals galore, but even Boyer found life hard towards the end of his Saints career with several very long goal droughts.Likewise later names like Colin Clarke and Steve Moran found life hard despite their impressive goal tallies ....and whilst we are on the subject, even MLT had his "dry spells" in between those memorable goal efforts. Looking back to when the James Beattie joined Saints. His first couple of seasons were distinctly unimpressive...and he managed just 5 goals in his first 50 games...... by the start of 2002.03 fans were tearing their hair out when JB went goalless for the first ten games, but then hit a goal streak that saw him score 23 goals in the next 27 games, and finished a couple behind Golden Boot winner (Thierry Henry)....and even Rickie Lambert didn't get on the goal sheet quite as often as many people think. ..but getting back to Graziano Pelle....few would deny that, at his best, an on-form GP is joy to watch, but his recent lack of goals is also down to fitness, or as Alan Shearer once quoted." there's lot of difference between being (totally) match-fit ..and being.." fit enough to play.". Let's hope we see GP back in his best form.

poor form?.......what poor form?. Both goals top class......looked as good as he ever has been.

great first half.....should have had 3 or 4 goals. Good defensive set-up in second. Penalty ? YES Red Card? -NO ! 3 points deserved ? - ABSOLUTELY !

I can recall that one, too Think it was the best reception any opposing player ever had at The Dell.. .....mainly due to the generation that remembered him as the Wizard for the Dribble., his England career, and that legendary " Matthews Cup Final." Yes it was 2-0..... both goals to Terry Paine, (who in his time - would also play at No.7 for England.) Stoke were already promoted, and Saints finished a very creditable 11th ...(considering they were still bottom of the League after 10 games.)

well said Mowgli...absolutely right ....and goalkeepers - even longer.

Not so common....not if you were still in your teens..... I can recall the Villa Park SF fiasco in 1963 .....and a trip to Highbury in 1968 (when we won 3-0) and another to WHam, around the same time ..think we won? .........oh and Steve Williams' debut game at Fratton Park (1976).....also the League Cup final v. Forest at Wembley....but that was much later (1979)

Can't recall exactly. It was the one and only time that I stood beneath the clock at Archers Road end .... good position if you want to see along the goal line, but not so much of the rest of the pitch....

I'd go with most of that assessment benjii - except that we can hardly say that Gardos is out of favour with Koeman, as he has been injured since last summer. He didn't have much chance to impress, it's true, but tbf ..there wasn't a CB pairing on the Planet, I would have chosen ahead of Fonte and Alderweireld last season. I think he needs a chance to play a few games .....before we talk about ditching him.