Nineteen Canteen

Interesting comment about Lallana, would you say the same about Pearson's sporadic use of Lallana and bizarre treatment of Surman? I have a lot of time for Mark Wotte not least because of the manner in which he conducted himself from the moment he was appointed manager to date and IMO deserves the chance to get back involved with the English game. Trouble is Vectis we can all afford to be selective to support our own agendas but by the same token he got a lot out of Gillett and bought McLaggon to our attention and it was a great shame the latter got injured. Under Wotte, Saints were a much better side in circumstances we can only begin to guess at and the announcement of administration finally did for Mark Wotte what it would have done for Pardew or any other manager in his position. Remember how Pardew perfromed at Charlton when money was beyond tight and tied along with his hands as was the case for Wotte? Shrewd move by Avram Grant if you ask me and personally they have my good wishes as two successful clubs in Hampshire can only be good for us all and promote a healthy and respected rivalry.

I think you'll find many people bought that Long Player when it was released so perhaps hardly surprising a myriad of posters are still enjoying it's tunefulness and acerbic lyrics. Lyrics helped by the fact that you can actually understand them whilst listening to the album without making reference to some scrawled words in no order whatsoever but trendy inlay card that if you study it for 6 months you may start to get 'the message'. Too late by then as the 'band/artiste' will be back working in Top Shop saying 'I used to be in band'. Obscure usually leads to obscurity and how many of these suggestions for 2009 actually made the top 40 Long Player chart? So come on Rory stop pedalling what the sales reps try and get you to flog and that keep's you on message with the latest happenings and tell us really how much you a enjoy a bit of Subo when the bosses tell you to play the popular but so not left field offerings.

It's not Pardew's decision and we can only hope he makes a good case to Mr Cortese to bring in cover in key areas. As I keep saying nothing will happen except maybe loans in if the current squad cannot be cut back signifcantly and Pardew if anything realy needs to make an effort to ship out the dead wood on a permanent basis.

That is the crux of the matter and it would have been a brave man to go against the Nazi regime. I'm not sure what purpose this will achieve as despicable and abhorrent the whole thing was it has been addressed and dealt with by now hasn't it? If not when do they start going after the guards and such like who didn't take the moral responsibility and open the gates? I think it's time to simply remember and never forget but 70 years on, move on nonetheless.

Ok Schizoid man - one for the old duffers. Do you ever listen to Mozart he was considered quite progressive and here we are over 200 years later still enjoying his music? It doesn't have to be obscure to be classed as brilliant just obscured by clouds. Check out that Shirley Bassey track and btw John Peel is the only person i know who truly identified with young and up and coming bands into his fifties. Most people love the muisc they grew up with the most for all sorts of emotive reasons that calm and become less eager with the passage of time. I'm hopefully growing old gracefully in the 21st century and it sounds to me you simply need to grow up.

That is an interesting angle because if he hadn't carried out his orders from Berlin what despicable fate would have befallen him. The whole issue is abhorrent and thankfully consigned to history and I would have thought that if he was acting on his superiors instructions he should show remorse for his actions and those of his country in a time of war when at times decency and humanity on both sides is suspended. IMO there was a time when this trial may have been appropriate but nearly 70 years on what will this achieve as most of those deeply affected by it would have passed on. Demjanjuk will soon meet his maker and let them be the ultimate judge.

Is that the training ground in Stoneham Lane ?

Really, read his autobography, unlike the last one you probably read it's a great read, insightful and very funny. The bit when he was working in the Ritz and had to help prepare Rex Harrison's, shall we say, complex breakfast requirements is brilliant.

I don't think I have seen a poorer team than Wycombe in a league game since the move to SMS. Apart from Saints on the odd occassion!

Too much to soon Mick, IMO and whilst we have the basis of a great team there are still areas of weaknesses and that puts strain / pressure to perform on those already doing very well. Great teams are not built overnight and require solid foundations and the fact that we nearly didn't exist less than 6 months ago we are asking to much of some of our key players and manager to deliver it all in one go. IMO many fans have loss sight of this season's beginnings and to coin it a 'slow start' is the best example of an understatement you are likely to find. Pardew has said the squad needs to be cut in size and we could easily lose ten players and buy in a few to cover areas of exposure. We are unlikely to do that this season and if (big if) we crept into 6th and failed in our promotion quest the air of doom and gloom would hang over the club, not unlike Burley's failed play off attempt and we all know what happened the following season. Crash and burn compared to level of expectation. I would rather we build patiently and with mid table expectations otherwise its bit like equipping yourself for walk up Ben Nevis in a pair of flip-flops. There is an outside chance you will do it but at what price the state of your feet?

Well it was Breakfast news and the One show I think i saw him on but he was plugging it and why not it's good stuff. Can't say if he was on GMTV as we asked Sony to put that inane dross on ignore for us on our TV. It was bad enough when Fiona 'I need more than face cream' Phillips and her I love Frank Lampard act, was on the sofa but nowadays it's even worse and even Ms Kelly's crack in her top bottom is heading forever south to meet that of her front one.

My target for Saints is to finish 12 points from the relegation places and 12 points from the play offs. The absolute last thing we want to do is crash and burn for the 6th place and write off our chances for next season. Patience will be rewarded and a midtable finish will be a great achievement provided we can offload about 15 squad players bring in another 4 or 5 whilst retaining the core of our first team for an assualt on the L1 championship next season which incidentally is the only trophy we should consider winning until we have won it. Not interested in anything else but the league championship and games in anything else should be treated as an opportunity for fringe players to prove their worth to Pardew, starting with effect from the 2nd December 2009. It will be a massive folly if Pardew plays, Lambert, Jaidi, Hammond, Lallana, Hardy or Murty in the Disney cup against Norwich - a cup because in football fantasy world we are all winners really and it's nice to have a cup for the little teams. Dreadful competition that serves no purpose whatsoever. Bad enough we are taking part in it let alone trying to win the thing and at what expense? At the moment our cup policy is guaranteed to scupper any lingering hopes of promotion.

Isn't this thread an exact duplicate of the 'Money Well Spent' thread which the originator of this pointless thread was already posting on? Other than the change in title why start another thread?

I apprecaite that and it wasn't the point I was making. A lot of the choices being put forward are hardly mainstream and Wilco and Mr Rascal from your lists suggests you can juxtapose two very different types of music and your opinion will be respected. I think it's interesting that the willingness to accept an opinion as an opinion and there is no right or wrong regardless of the mainstream view is very evident in the off-topic forums but move that expectation into the main forum and the serial abusers and 'mainstream' holders of the alleged collective view will do their best to oppress you. Just an observation.

I'll be surprised if they haven't heard of it as Suggs was doing teh PR rounds even on breakfast telly, and why not? If it's good enough fro Sian and Bill it's good enough for us all surely. Norton Folgate is interesting though a small area of Shoreditch in London that until the early 20th C was excluded from the parochial restrictions of local boroughs (Stepney?). Those living in the 'manor' had certain privileges and a 'liberty' to do as they please and i think was connected to the bishops of St Pauls so i doubt those liberties were used to good effect. Wonder why Madness chose that title as the otherside of Artillery passage home to dodgy Indian resturants grocers and house of ill repute there was a similar area called the South Artillery Grounds with the same liberty afforded it.

A bit of pace? He lacks a lot of pace but he makes up for that with his goal scoring ability and hold up play. He is a great signing but I would question if he is up to the job of being the lone striker because he gave up the ghost after about 70 mins and I was surprised he didn't come off and not Waigo who was running into offside positions for the fun of it. Based on what I saw Lambert's general fitness is a worry at the moment especially if we continue to play him in the mickey mouse cup and the FA Cup in a massively important run of league games. Players of his ability need to be able to last the full 90 regardless of the amount of running they do - didn't affect many of the others who kept going and you do wonder if there is an underlying problem be it overcoming a virus or lack of training because of illness or dare I say it, no better not.

What no JLS, Alexandra Pratt, Leona Lewis or Susan Boyle? Saints fans not conforming to the popular misconceptions. If only our opinions on the main forum were as eclectic as our musical opinions. Driving to the game last night and waitng for Solent Sports to start I caught the last few minutes of a track from Shirley Bassey's new album the name of which I missed. The track was called Apartment and was written for her by Rufus Wainwright. Has anybody heard it? It sounded very good last night in amongst a sea of dross on the airwaves. No doubt though the rest of tracks on the album are nowhere near as good.

Combine Yes with BJH and what do you get IMO? Wishbone Ash I would have included the following: Wishbone Ash - Argus Jethro Tull - Stand Up King Crimson - In the Court of the.... However, I only have them in vinyl and so don't listen to them regularly as I woud like. I know what you mean about Dark Side but it's still got that 'sumptuous' feel to it when you don the head phones and give it a real listen. Over elaborate, over produced and perhaps a lesson in perfectionism but undeniably has stood the test of time. Led Zep II and IV are brilliant albums but I prefered them at their blues influenced best and although III isn't quite as good 'Since I've been loving You' is one of their best songs - not the best as that is an impossible choice but very much a favourite. As for Hawkwind what can I say - memories of a great youth especially at the Stonehenge summer solstice free festivals before fisticuffs in corn fields ruined it all. I remember one year watching Hawkwind at Stonehenge as it started to get light and you could see the druids gathering in the distance behind the teepees and make shift tarpaulin tents and Dave Brock entering some kind of trance like state not unlike the very laid back crowd. Glastonbury and £250 a ticket- no thanks - we had all that for free and not a piece of gortex or a phone box toilet in site. Incidentally those services were provided by a big circular gravel pit dug out special for the occassion. You haven't lived until you have dumped in a big circle of fellow dumpees to drunk or spaced out to care. Did learn a valuable life lesson on these occassion and one I have passed on to my family when the time was right. Never take a dump facing down hill, logs roll if you miss your target.

Nobody mentions the mega selling offering from Susan Boyle, I find that surprising that so many people can be that wrong. Then again behaviour on our beloved TSW has shown that popular opinion isn't always right compared with a balanced and critical assessment. Anyway I still can't get past the golden period of prog / heavy rock so I would like to nominate my most listened to albums of 2009: Led Zep 1 Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon UFO - Strangers in the Night Hawkwind - Space Ritual Supertramp - Breakfast in America (The greatest concept album ever?) Deep Purple - Live in Japan Genesis - Selling England by the Pound Not ten but 7 cds that have permanent residence on my cd changer and player in my car.

I agree with your thoughts on the Wycombe strategy and they will play to frustrate and look to score from set pieces or on the break. They will be very happy with a draw IMO and play accordingly. Defensively i think we are to strong and even the odd present from Jaidi I still can't see them scoring and I predict a frustrating and slightly boring 2-0 win. A typically cold winter's night game made more challenging if the predicted rain arrives - one of those very rare occassions you are glad you're not a footballer.

AS oppose to being one dimensional in my thinking.

I will defer this to Glasgow Saint but my understanding is Rangers cash problems are acute whereas Celtic have problems in the same way as Man U have problems (on a smaller scale). Celtic are much more marketable, have better revenue streams as a result and can manage their debt for the time being. I accept Mike's point and who's to say that won't happen on a wider scale across the country as surely that would be the solution at Stanley Park. I think the thought of us ground sharing with Pompey is distasteful born out of a developing hatred as much to do with the chnage in society over the past 50 years than anything else. Once it was just fierce local rivalry as oppose to the bile laden hatred of today. However, because of the other deeper issues in Glasgow I think it would need a cold day in hell before those to clubs even shared a neutral ground or squeezed out Queens Park.

What would have happened to Charlton if they couldn't have used Selhurst Park? Where are Charlton now financially? It's a bit of cliche but sometimes in order to survive you need to embrace change for the greater good or fold. Even in our situation after forced and difficult changes that have resulted in a new chapter of hope some of our eminent and alleged role models can't appear to accept the new world order with good grace. Good idea's stop because of people's desire to live in the past and inability to see potential in change. I'm not necessarily supporting Guided Missile but it would be folly to dismiss an idea simply on grounds of prejudice. Personally, I would prefer to lead and let others follow and with football's finances looking unsupportable in the medium term what happens when it crashes? It's no different in a way than the housing crashes of the past where demand outstrips supply and credit and money are easily available in a booming economy, and then 'unforseen' events occur that reverses the trends for a decade or two. The market is then over supplied and demand drops. IMO football on TV is at ridiculous levels at companies like Setanta paying stupid prices for essentially scraps paid the price. Do you watch any European 'Action' during the group stages? I don't they are tedious beyond belief so apart from the most ardent of fans who is watching what happens to the half time advertising? Football is living beyond it's means and sponsorship is getting tougher to find and you only have to look at the state of ITV to understand the decline in advertising revenues. It doesn't have the cache for advertisers anymore so who is to suggest football will? Clubs cannot rely on gate receipts alone and retain players on 7 figure salaries. Look at the debt of Liverpool and Man Utd they don't have government backing like Real Madrid or RBS and Northern Rock. Then we look to Dubai and see the disaster that has befallen that country's unsupportable lifestyle and wacky projects and where do our clubs go for Finance in this day and age? The Middle East and whose to say the collapse of the state owned company in Dubai building those 'islands' will have a knock on effect to the rest of the region. Afterall oil is a finite resource and then what? Maybe not in our lifetime Mike but certainly in our sons the football map will change it has to before it eats itself. If the current leagues are maintained then mergers, ground shares or a realignment of costs with revenues will be required. Failing that clubs will simply go to the wall and it doesn't take a huge leap of faith to image a NFL like structure in the States where promotion and relegation are a complete anathema and the status quo is maintained across the super elite and everyone else sits below them and change to their order rarer than a groundshare idea with your rivals. Its an interesting idea from GM and as a result should not be simply dismissed because due to ugly localised racism it will never happen. Banks don't go to the wall and become state owned and the ritzy surroundings of Dubai don't cause global markets to crash. Bubbles burst and football will to unless it changes and as we found out there are far more pretenders than Mr Liebherr's in this world and we are enormously fortunate to have him as our owner but at the same time we are at the mercy of his plans and ideas on what is good for the club's long term future.

You'll miss out on the gift aid assuming the set up and management costs for Justgiving are not prohibitive.

Guided Missile posts a controverisal idea and Nineteen Canteen is the only one trying to look at the merits whilst the others simply dismiss it. Dismissing threats or new ideas is how wars are lost and businesses crash.