JackFrost

old Nick is out in front with 1053 posts on this thread

So would you be if your employer treated you like McLaren treated Alonso.

You reckon? The ramifications would be massive and very damaging. The tv audiences would be cut in half overnight for a start.

You clearly haven't seen many races this season, and some of the dubious penalties Ferrari have been on the receiving end of. You are very short sighted if you think Todt is a Ferrari puppet. The outcry from the other teams would be deafening if there was any hint of bias. Shortly after his appointment Todt removed himself from any sporting responsibilities that involved making calls regarding on track action How many teams have condemned this incident at the race? Team orders like this occur all the time and you don't even notice it. You are basically calling for several cars every race to be penalised and for races to be decided in the courtroom and not on the race track. Like I've said I see no problem with this at all. It has gone on for decades, and when it's been made illegal it's carried on exactly the same just under the guise of code. The only reason why people are complaining is because Massa wasn't exactly subtle about it. In that situation normally it would have happened under the guise of Massa outbreaking himself passing a backmarker and Alonso slipping through and the ITV commentators praising Alonso for his opportunism. Unfortunately Ferrari and Massa appeared to miss the moment and ****ed it up. If this incident had involved Hamilton and Button, this thread wouldn't exist. I didn't hear much outcry when Kovalainen gave Hamilton no end of help in the last couple of years

It's like those signs they stick up in places like on wheelie bins, telling people to slow down in 30 mph areas. You have to take a good look to read what it says on those and you have to take your eyes off the road. . .

Was that when the councillor who made that decision got awarded his own throne on Top Gear?

Actually it's more to do with cutting costs

The cars Senna drove always sounded different, thats what i will always remember. On one of his hot laps in qualifying the cars sounded like wounded animals begging for mercy

Just saw this on BBC2 An absolutely fantastic piece, so accurately written and produced. Summed up exactly what I thought about the great man myself. About 45 mins through http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00t8qfb/Top_Gear_Series_15_Episode_5/

Which is what practically every fan who didn't support Michael Schumacher in his title winning years felt. He had an entire team built around him, his car was a second a lap faster than anyone else and half a second faster than his teammate. In the occasions he wasn't miles away in front Ferrari and the FIA did everything they could to make sure that was the case.

Then you haven't watched F1 for very long. Or if you have I certainly won't be getting any betting tips off you LOL Betting on a driver who is significantly behind his team mate in the championship to win a race with his teammate behind him is a very unwise bet. This has gone on for years and has happened many many times, not just with the front runners but all the way down the grid, regardless of whether it has been outlawed Why is this one incident so significant? Now the reason why the Schumi, Barrichello incident in Austria was different was because Schumi was miles ahead in the Championship, Barrichello was easily the quickest and in front all weekend including the race, and through what happened at the last corner they turned the entire weekend into a farce. In this situation Alonso was faster and in a far better position to have a chance of launching a challenge for the championship and Vettel was closing in. Alonso was being held up and his race was being compromised by his teammate. This situation has occurred many times over the years and the teams have swapped the drivers positions in a subtle way, many times over the years. The mistake Ferrari made was that Massa wasn't that discreet about it. As Brundle pointed out, any other team would have done the same. And they have, many times. Ferrari did this or would do this for Schumi everytime they could. And Ferrari are a very long way from being the only team that have done it.

I'm rather baffled at how many people are surprised by today's developments. Clearly they did not watch F1 when Schumacher was dominating.

Er this is 2010 not 2004. FIA stopped being 'Ferrari's International Assistance' when Mosley left, the FIA and Ferrari have been at each other's throats pretty much since then, hence why Ferrari have been on the receiving end of the steward's decisions this season. Ferrari have been penalised for some, they've got away with less this season. Team orders have always happened, regardless of whether the FIA have banned them or not. If both Ferrari's had been excluded today then it would have meant several cars would have to be excluded every GP. Besides maybe he had the win handed to him because he's outperformed Massa all season, and was in a far better position to win the Championship before this race never mind after? Something I've seen hundreds of times happen over the many years I've followed F1?

Never stopped it happening though. It's still routinely done, it's just the teams use code knowing that no one will ever be able to prove that they've done it. Since team orders were banned, the only time a team would have ever been penalised for it was when Max Mosley was in charge and anyone did it that resulted in them beating a Ferrari to the finish line.

Trouble is like with all these cases since the Hakkinen-Coulthard incident in Melbourne, they won't be able to prove it and nothing will happen. It's gone on for decades, regardless of what the rules have been. If any case of team orders were always punished Schumacher wouldn't have won that many titles

FFS i couldn't care less about the result. Pre season friendlies are all about getting the players match fit for the new season whilst avoiding injury.

bloody hell, they've topped the Mini Clubman with that

The man who first got me interested in snooker. I hope one of the TV channels does a tribute showing some of his entertaining matches where he miscues shots, balls go flying everywhere and still end up in the pocket. Absolute legend

Apologies if you've been asked before, but how do you rate HMRC's chances of winning their appeal, and if successful what would happen next?

Further evidence IMO that HMRC are waging war on football clubs not paying their taxes. IMO they would love it if a club like Portsmouth went bust, it would send a chilling message to any other football club attempting to live beyond their means.

Couldn't have put it better myself. LOL

They'd be no worse than the US.

as long as you get top up tv, have a freeview+ box and pay £23 for SS1 or £32 a month for SS1 & SS2. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/21/top-up-tv-sky-sports I can only see this taking off if the price came down once they'd started to attract interest. Especially when justin.tv is around.

Is it possible HMRC are trying to play the ultimate long game? ie. try and drag this all the way up to the start of the 2011/12 season, meaning Pompey can't start that season (because you can't start 2 consecutive seasons in admin) and get liquidated soon afterwards as they'd have zero income?

The Dell whenever there was heavy rain during a match